5. On July 17, 2023, the Government filed a Motion for Protective Order (ECF No.
79). At the July 18, 2023 Pretrial Conference Pursuant to Section 2 of CIPA, the Court found
that additional conferral between the parties was required, and denied the Government’s Motion
for Protective Order without prejudice. See ECF No. 82.
I suspect this is Judge Cannon putting her finger on the scale for tfg. Would any other judge have denied the initial Protective Order for classified information in a case like this?
It is well established that
“CIPA authorizes district courts to limit access to classified information to persons with a security
clearance as long as the application of this requirement does not deprive the defense of evidence
that would be useful to counter the government’s case or to bolster a defense.” In re Terrorist
Bombings of U.S. Embassies in East Africa, 552 F.3d 93, 122 (2d Cir. 2008) (citations and internal
quotation marks omitted); see also United States v. Moussaoui, 591 F.3d 263, 289-90 (4th Cir.
2010); United States v. Hausa, 232 F. Supp. 3d 257, 264 (E.D.N.Y 2017) (rejecting defendant’s
argument that his due process rights were violated because he was personally denied access to
evidence that only he could explain to counsel).
I think that's the same incident. I clicked on the Newsweek link in your article which tells a bit more. It's not the same article I read but pretty sure it's the same investigation. There were admissions of (innocently) shredding documents "to save space."
5. On July 17, 2023, the Government filed a Motion for Protective Order (ECF No.
79). At the July 18, 2023 Pretrial Conference Pursuant to Section 2 of CIPA, the Court found
that additional conferral between the parties was required, and denied the Government’s Motion
for Protective Order without prejudice. See ECF No. 82.
I suspect this is Judge Cannon putting her finger on the scale for tfg. Would any other judge have denied the initial Protective Order for classified information in a case like this?
If one assumes her reason for denying is genuine, that would not be that unusual.
5. On July 17, 2023, the Government filed a Motion for Protective Order (ECF No.
79). At the July 18, 2023 Pretrial Conference Pursuant to Section 2 of CIPA, the Court found
that additional conferral between the parties was required, and denied the Government’s Motion
for Protective Order without prejudice. See ECF No. 82.
I suspect this is Judge Cannon putting her finger on the scale for tfg. Would any other judge have denied the initial Protective Order for classified information in a case like this?
If one assumes her reason for denying is genuine, that would not be that unusual.
Thanks, realist. I didn't realize that classified information restrictions were sometimes successfully challenged.
I again wish to state that this case has become functionally irrelevant.
Oh, Judge Cannon set a trial date in May 2024, and people think the trial will happen before the election?
Umm ... no.
And if'n the gubbermint had a problem with that, it shouldn't have filed a supplemental indictment, which will only cause additional delay and confusion. Is the addition of De Whoeverheis necessary? If so, why?
Foggy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:12 am
And if'n the gubbermint had a problem with that, it shouldn't have filed a supplemental indictment, which will only cause additional delay and confusion. Is the addition of De Whoeverheis necessary? If so, why?
The Washington Post has an article on these issues...
The additional charges of lying to investigators could send a warning signal to other witnesses, the legal experts said: The case against Trump and his employees is strong and growing, and witnesses should cooperate with federal prosecutors if they want to avoid getting indicted themselves.
Derrick Byron @derrick_byron wrote:
Just a shark hanging out with some beach goers in Florida
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
Yuscil Taveras, a Mar-a-Lago employee who oversees the property’s surveillance cameras, received a target letter from federal prosecutors after former President Donald Trump was first indicted in June on charges related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents after leaving office, sources told CNN.
Taveras also met with investigators following the initial indictment in the classified documents case overseen by special counsel Jack Smith, sources said.
While it is unclear whether Taveras is cooperating with prosecutors, some of the new allegations against Trump that were included in a superseding indictment filed last week were based, at least in part, on information he provided during that interview, CNN has learned.
A lawyer for Taveras previously declined to comment to CNN.
The updated indictment, which adds major accusations against Trump and a new co-defendant to the case, refers to Taveras as “Trump Employee 4,” CNN previously reported.
Unlike Trump’s longtime valet Walt Nauta and Mar-a-Lago property manager and new co-defendant Carlos De Oliveira, Taveras is not currently facing charges in the classified documents case despite having been informed he is a target in the probe.
But he is at the center of the new accusations added to the indictment, including an exchange he had with De Oliveira on June 27, 2022. In that conversation, De Oliveira asked to have a private discussion in an “audio closet” with Taveras, including questioning how long the footage from the security tapes lasted and whether it could be deleted.
Trump property manager Carlos De Oliveira appears in court in Florida Mar-a-Lago manager, accused of conspiracy and obstruction in classified documents case, to be arraigned on 10 August
The Associated Press
Mon 31 Jul 2023 18.09 BST
The property manager of Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate made his first court appearance on Monday on charges in the classified documents case against the former president, but he did not enter a plea because he has not found a Florida-based attorney to represent him.
Carlos De Oliveira is accused of scheming with Trump to try to delete security footage sought by investigators probing the former president’s hoarding of classified documents at his Palm Beach, Florida, club.
De Oliveira was added last week to the indictment with Trump and the ex-president’s valet, Walt Nauta, and faces charges including conspiracy to obstruct justice and lying to investigators.
A magistrate judge in Miami’s federal court read De Oliveira the charges against him and ordered him to turn over his passport and sign an agreement to pay $100,000 if he does not appear in court. The judge scheduled his arraignment for 10 August in Fort Pierce.
The developments in the classified documents case come as Trump braces for possible charges in another federal investigation into his efforts to cling to power after he lost the 2020 election. Trump, the early frontrunner in the 2024 Republican presidential primary, has received a letter from special counsel Jack Smith indicating that he is a target of that investigation, and Trump’s lawyers met with Smith’s team last week.
The indictment quotes De Oliveira as saying he did not help Nauta move the boxes, doesn't it? Ditto Nauta saying he has no idea where the boxes were stored (I think) or how they got to the Trump residence.
They had tape of the boxes being moved; tape they got from Mar-a-Lago, whether it was edited or not. I believe.
Chilidog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:26 pm
I saw a story a few weeks back that was largely un-confirmed, but something about it rang true, and it explains a few things.
Basically it goes thus.
The feds subpoenaed Trump org for the surveillance video.
Trump org responded with a set of recordings which had been crudely edited (I.e timestamps were off)
The feds didn't say anything, instead they found out who ran the off site backup service and quietly subpoenaed the backups of the full tapes.
Then they interviewed Trump's minions without letting them know that they had the originals.
The minions lied their asses off thinking that they could get away with it.
That is how they got jambed up.
I read through the indictment, it never specifies exactly how they knew that the minions were lying.
What do you think?
Sounds reasonable. If it is, I imagine it will either come out in discovery/trial, or a minion (or two, or three) will flip
Smith is no dummy. He knew coming into this he'd best have every i dotted and every t crossed and it better be iron-clad. The theories about the surveillance tape seem the most logical and for every little tidbit that's been leaked, I'm pretty sure there's a mountain of evidence just waiting for discovery.
Chilidog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:41 pm
The thing that I don't get is:
Natua and De Oliveira are nobodies. Therebis literally nothing in this for them but grief if they don't wise up.
At some point, someone not associated with Trump has to walk up to them and give them a smack upside the head with a clue by four.
At least from what's been reported about Natua, this is the best gig he's ever had. He's a source of pride for his family in Guam, and there's no good way for him to save face. He may see that tfg somehow manages to get away with anything, and those who have stayed loyal to him mostly have the same fate - Stone, Bannon, and to a degree, Manafort (although the financial cost to Manafort was huge). At least for now, he may see sticking with Trump as the better path forward.
somerset wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:57 pm
At least from what's been reported about Natua, this is the best gig he's ever had. He's a source of pride for his family in Guam, and there's no good way for him to save face. He may see that tfg somehow manages to get away with anything, and those who have stayed loyal to him mostly have the same fate - Stone, Bannon, and to a degree, Manafort (although the financial cost to Manafort was huge). At least for now, he may see sticking with Trump as the better path forward.
I don't know anything about Nauta as a person, but it must be very stressful being a tiny, tasty morsel of a fish tossed into a pond full of sharks. People like Trump and his friends have money, power and connections to help and advise, plus the arrogance of entitlement.
How will a worried and exposed Nauta get assistance to make the best decision for himself, his family and his principles, which might include loyalty to the Orange Shitgibbon for his hitherto pleasant life? Can his attorney be trusted? The prosecutors? What do the family think?
De Oliveira looks a little scared in the video I've seen of him either coming or going from court. He has a landlord and neighbors that have publicly stated that they think he should cooperate with authorities. I hope they are talking to him on the side. Trump has all the behavior of a mob boss, including supplying lawyers for the guys who do his dirty work so they are getting advice that has Trump's best interests in mind. Their future depends entirely on Trump winning the general election and then forcing his Attorney General to drop all the cases.
I think Jack should start pursuing Jan 6 cases very heavily. That is a jurisdiction where Trump will be found guilty. Also, there are more chances of a judge deciding that case must happen before the election because at least one of the charges would preclude Trump from holding office. Voters have to have the verdict on that prior to casting votes. I understand it probably wouldn't be "final" until all appeals are heard, but I do think that Independent voters wouldn't give a shit about that technicality. If he's found guilty, he will not get enough of the Independent vote to win the election if Republicans are actually craven enough (we know they are) to put him on the ballot as their candidate.
“A know-it-all is a person who knows everything except for how annoying he is.”
somerset wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:57 pm
At least from what's been reported about Natua, this is the best gig he's ever had. He's a source of pride for his family in Guam, and there's no good way for him to save face. He may see that tfg somehow manages to get away with anything, and those who have stayed loyal to him mostly have the same fate - Stone, Bannon, and to a degree, Manafort (although the financial cost to Manafort was huge). At least for now, he may see sticking with Trump as the better path forward.
I don't know anything about Nauta as a person, but it must be very stressful being a tiny, tasty morsel of a fish tossed into a pond full of sharks. People like Trump and his friends have money, power and connections to help and advise, plus the arrogance of entitlement.
How will a worried and exposed Nauta get assistance to make the best decision for himself, his family and his principles, which might include loyalty to the Orange Shitgibbon for his hitherto pleasant life? Can his attorney be trusted? The prosecutors? What do the family think?
Just my arrogant opinion but if Employee #4 is willing to testify in court D'Olivera insisted "the boss" wanted footage deleted, trump is going to deny he ever gave that order. He has the biggest risk for underbussing if he doesn't grow a spine. As for Nauta, trump will drive over him just as quickly.
Somebody needs to create a cartoon of trump honking the semi horn of a semi tractor racing towards those two, they with deer in the headlights facies.
Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:06 am
Just my arrogant opinion but if Employee #4 is willing to testify in court D'Olivera insisted "the boss" wanted footage deleted, trump is going to deny he ever gave that order. He has the biggest risk for underbussing if he doesn't grow a spine. As for Nauta, trump will drive over him just as quickly.
Yeah, but courts are the venue of many a "he said"/"no I didn't" dispute. Those testifying will need to stand up to vicious questioning and the fluent and relentless lying of Trump channeled through his attorneys.
And surely the Trump side have to deal with the (implicit or explicit) question of why would employees delete video unless they were instructed so to do?
Trump being such a known liar cannot be an advantage for him with any non-Trumpanzee juror.
Philly Boondoggle
