Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[sad-cafe]

he should have gotten the death penalty

[Estiveo]

he should have gotten the death penalty

Cue Anders to explain why the murder cherub should get a Presidential Medal of Honor & a pony.

[sad-cafe]

and we will be right here to smack him down again.

HE is one that needs to go NOT Luke

[Ben-Prime]

and we will be right here to smack him down again.

HE is one that needs to go NOT Luke

I kinda miss Luke, too. He has tradtionally been the first person to start cheerleading when morale is low. But let's be fair and note that he chose to take a leave when he saw himself facing what he perceived as a personal level of negativity from another member who has been chastised for that behavior.

Anders' doggedness may come across as annoyingly impossible, but I don't recall seeing him a) hostile, or b) personally insulting. In fairness, I might have missed something. But ... have I?

[Uninformed]

In fairness, I might have missed something. But ... have I?

No, I don’t think so.

Along with others I found Anders (given what was in evidence at the time?) correct insistence that the law(s) as written allowed for acquittal somewhat blind to the amoral nature of what happened, but as they say the law is not necessarily justice.

And, yes Luke is missed.

[Dave from down under]

Apart from being an apologist for a premeditated killer, he would also misquote and mischaracterise in his essay on the right to hunt humans

[roadscholar]

he should have gotten the death penalty

As should have Zimmerman, too (also).

[RVInit]

he should have gotten the death penalty

As should have Zimmerman, too (also).

Off Topic

Ugh, don't get me started on Zimmerman. I lived less than 5 miles from where Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. I know the police in that area are just like other people in that area and were not going to question Zimmerman's story. But his whole story about where he first encountered Trayvon was such an easily provable lie. And I was stunned that the prosecutor didn't even see how easily he could have proven that. There is one main road in Zimmerman's old housing development. And that road is basically like a large horseshoe. Zimmerman lived near the last house at one end of the horseshoe. The middle of that horseshoe is the one and only road that goes in and out of that housing development. So, for Trayvon coming in, and Zimmerman going out (he says he was going to Target), that is the one and only way each of them could have used. Trayvon came in from having gone to a 7-11. Supposedly Zimmerman was going out to go to Target. There is a community center halfway from the bottom of the horseshoe and the end of the horseshoe opposite from where Zimmerman lived. And this is where Zimmerman claimed he first saw Trayvon.

If Zimmerman was going to Target, and was not doing a "security check" prior to going to Target then he would never have had any reason to drive past the exit of the housing development in order to have seen Trayvon at the community center. To go to Target from his house he would have gone to the exit, turned to go out, gone to Target, then come back in exactly the same way, no reason whatsoever for him to ever go past the exit and drive on that second half of the horseshoe. Except that he was lying. He had to have seen Trayvon coming into the community as he was going out. And he turned around and followed him. Not only is that the only thing that could have happened, given the layout of that community's roads, but it's also consistent with the testimony of the young girl that was on the phone with Trayvon, who lived in Miami and did not have any idea of the layout of the housing development. And yet she still gave testimony absolutely consistent with Trayvon coming in, Zimmerman going out, seeing Trayvon, and making a decision to follow the young black kid. Trayvon told his friend he was being followed by someone guy in a truck. Zimmerman had to park his truck at that community center in order to get out and follow Trayvon on foot. The police and the prosecutor both missed the boat on how easily they could have torn his story to shreds. I'm not at all surprised that the police missed the boat, they wouldn't be inclined to even want to accept that a white man killed a black kid without justification. But the prosecution?

I don't know what Zimmerman is doing these days, but he knows he hunted Trayvon down and murdered him. Trayvon tried to fight for his life, but I guess it's too hard for local yeehaws to believe that an unarmed black kid has a right to try to fend off an armed, white, grown up attacker who has been following him for at least a half an hour. Oh no, that kind of self defense is beyond comprehension.

Sorry for the rant, but this case really gets my goat, at least as much if not more than Rittenhouse. They both committed outright murder and belong in prison.

[andersweinstein]

Kyle Rittenhouse texts pledging to ‘murder’ shoplifters disillusion his ex-spokesperson
‘I believed things he told me that I now understand to be … lies,’ Dave Hancock says in new Rittenhouse documentary

A former spokesperson for Kyle Rittenhouse says he became disillusioned with his ex-client after learning that he had sent text messages pledging to “fucking murder” shoplifters outside a pharmacy before later shooting two people to death during racial justice protests in Wisconsin in 2020.
...

I've been following Hancock's change of heart closely. I was the first to alert fogbowers to the info he's been putting out. But one thing about it: AFAIK he has always conceded that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense. To my knowldge, that's not something he has ever questioned. He obsessively posts then deletes tweets and has deactivated then reactivated his account many times, so his posts don't stick around for citing. But in one I quoted a while ago, he wrote "I'm not saying that he wasn't attacked. I'm not saying he didn't defend himself if you take the events in isolation. I am saying that Kyle lacks even the most basic form of self-awareness which prevents him from reflecting honestly on his role in the entire incident."

As I understand it, self-defense law does precisely examine the events "in isolation". This is sometimes raised as a criticism of self-defense law.

Hancock's themes have been:

- KR has info on his phone that would be highly damaging and is going to hurt him in the civil cases (so should really stay out of limelight)
- For the trial, they constructed a cleaned-up and misleading impression of KR and his reasons for going there.

So he thinks all these things are prejudicial in that they would damage KR's image in the minds of jury members. But at no point have I ever seen him say they prove Rittenhouse did not act in self-defense in the shootings he was tried for.

And of course he feels betrayed by Kyle who lied to him, didn't take his good advice. And, he doesn't say, ran up $40k on his credit card and left. So DH goes on about what a contemptible character he is. So one other thing to be aware of is that Hancock is a disgruntled former employee. He spun things positively for KR as his spokesman, now he's a guy with a beef spinning things negatively in his anger.

This Guardian article is framed to strongly imply Hancock now doubts the self-defense claim itself. I can't be sure, but I strongly *suspect* that is just the left-wing Guardian slanting things (Guardian gonna Guardian). This piece from Law&Crime TV is more in line with my understanding. Hancock feels Kyle lied to him, yes, but does not say that about the specific claim to have acted from the motive of self-defense:
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/pa ... ever-knew/

[Dave from down under]

Oh the poor angelic child (killer) is just just being misunderstood stood again and his good name slandered.

Unlike say his first kill, who Kyle’s fans are quick to slander and accuse of attacking their angel…
There is a reason Kyle fired 4 times…
Twice to cripple
Then twice more in the back to be sure of a kill and sure that there could be no counter testimony from the person Kyle was hunting.

[andersweinstein]

Oh the poor angelic child (killer) is just just being misunderstood stood again and his good name slandered.

Not remotely my view. You will not find me ever saying I think KR was an angel or admirable in any way. Moral assessments of his character are irrelevant to my thesis (that he had a good self-defense claim).

BTW I would add that by the same token, Rosenbaum was not some poor angelic protestor.

Unlike say his first kill, who Kyle’s fans are quick to slander and accuse of attacking their angel…

There is a reason Kyle fired 4 times…
Twice to cripple
Then twice more in the back to be sure of a kill and sure that there could be no counter testimony from the person Kyle was hunting.

Ultimately we just have a factual disagreement. IMO saying that Kyle was "hunting" people given the evidence presented is just dumb. I take the trial evidence to provide very strong support for the idea that the shootings didn't arise because Rittenhouse was hunting people or anything remotely like that. I think it supports the idea that he was jumped by a bad guy while on his way to put out a fire. I've always said I see a real question about whether the attacks on him justified deadly force against his assailants. But I think this stuff about hunting is just absolute nonsense, a fantasy or projection sustained only by prejudice, not evidence. I don't believe it for a minute.

But I can fall back to this: if anyone simply wants to understand the verdict, I believe they should understand how a jury acting in good faith could *very easily* accept that on the evidence presented at his trial. It doesn't even depend crucially on his own testimony.

[Dave from down under]

Too many people get away with murder.

This being just one example.

[RVInit]

Too many people get away with murder.

This being just one example.

[Estiveo]

Orlando Heavy metal festival loses headliner, other bands due to booking murder elf.

Shell Shock II Promoters Cry Cancel Culture As Bands Leave After Booking Murderous Sh*tbag Kyle Rittenhouse

It’s a tale that’s become far too predictable these days. Edgelord person or group with money puts on an event and books a highly provocative/controversial shitbag amidst other artists and guests. People find out that person’s on the bill and drop off en masse. Organizer then gets angry, cries, throws a tantrum online as people with agency decide to stand by their principles instead of blindly cash a paycheck.

All of that is apparently what’s going on with the Shell Shock II Fest that’s supposed to take place in Orlando, Florida on October 19 at Level 13 Entertainment Center. We previously reported that Evergreen Terrace had dropped off after learning that alt-right grifter and murderer Kyle Rittenhouse was going to be there as a special VIP guest, but it seems like the list of bands dropping off got bigger. So far, other hardcore outfits that have left the fest include Southpaw, Let Me Bleed, and American Hollow.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2024/10/01/s ... ttenhouse/

[bill_g]

Murder elf

[neonzx]

That music festival is supposed to be a charity raising money for veterans with PTSD.

So the organisers asked themselves who would be a great VIP special guest. Hey, lets get Kyle Shittenhouse!!

[Resume18]

Let me just point this out again.

“I will fucking murder them.”

[Dave from down under]

Not admissible!!!!

Right to self defence!

It’s not murder when you make sure there is no witnesses.

[andersweinstein]

Let me just point this out again.

“I will fucking murder them.”

The article quotes texts saying "I wish they would come into my house.”, “I will fucking murder them.” It doesn't give further context, but that suggests hoping they were intruders so he could shoot them as such. Reminds me that Kamala Harris told Oprah "If someone breaks in my house, they're getting shot" and there was big laughter. It seems like the same sort of braggadocio.

We've known about his expressive speech regarding the CVS shoplifters since before the trial. This is not really new or surprising information. More important than how he may have mouthed off when there was nothing at stake is evidence about what how the shootings arose and what he *did*. Remember the shootings are all ON VIDEO. A jury of twelve people watched them and concluded he was not guilty. One reason I think is that the video shows he TRIED TO FLEE. And that he first showed his weapon at Rosenbaum without shooting, an apparent attempt to try to deter him -- so he WOULDN'T HAVE TO shoot. And he doesn't shoot a person who holds up with hands in the air, and doesn't shoot Grosskreutz while he holds up, but only when he advances gun out, and that he doesn't shoot ANYONE who is not attacking him when he easily could have, and then only shoots at the last moment as they are right upon him.

Actions speak louder than words. I think the video alone proves, almost beyond a reasonable doubt, that he shot only in self-defense. Because the behavior just doesn't make sense on the belief that he WANTED to shoot people.

I see a real question about whether deadly force was justified given the attacks on him. But thinking these shootings happened because he actually wanted to shoot people strikes me as uninformed about the evidence.

[Resume18]

Actions speak louder than words . . .

Indeed.

Killer Kyle killed two people. He did what he fantasized about: "I will fucking murder them."

[bill_g]

He visualized it, verbalized it, and then actualized it. It was premeditated in every way.

[Dave from down under]

x1000

[Dave from down under]

Early draft….

Ode to Kyle

Kyle knows the drill
The greatest thrill
Is when you stalk to kill

At the end of the day
When the hunted turns at bay
You get to maim before you slay

No sitting on the fence
Claim murder is self defence
Trust the jury to be dense

[sad-cafe]

He visualized it, verbalized it, and then actualized it. It was premeditated in every way.

yep

[andersweinstein]

For anyone interested, that Law&Crime documentary, "The Trials of Kyle Rittenhouse", is now viewable for free on Tubi:
https://tubitv.com/movies/100028332/the ... rtPos=3034