Rudy Giuliani
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
This is just the start of the mudslide. Expect other states where Rudy was licensed to impose reciprocal discipline automatically.
- KickahaOta
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
The five judges on the panel were undoubtedly keenly aware of that. And yet they voted 5-0, not just to suspend Giuliani, but to do so on an interim basis, without first holding a suspension hearing. What do you suppose that says about the strength of the evidence?bob wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 pm While I have no problem with the court suspending his license for lying to court, I think the court is overreaching a bit with lies told to others.
Giuliani has a duty of candor with the courts. But disciplining lawyers for false statements generally would catch more than just Giuliani.
The NY ethics rules do have very broad no-lying provisions. And Giuliani's primary defense was the First Amendment, which the court rejected. So I'm not saying the court is wrong; just that this broadness is going to invite criticism.
Re: Rudy Giuliani
I agree that, in general, it is a stretch to suspend an attorney for lying to the public. But this lie " immediately threatens the public interest and warrants interim suspension from the practice of law."bob wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 pm While I have no problem with the court suspending his license for lying to court, I think the court is overreaching a bit with lies told to others.
Giuliani has a duty of candor with the courts. But disciplining lawyers for false statements generally would catch more than just Giuliani.
The NY ethics rules do have very broad no-lying provisions. And Giuliani's primary defense was the First Amendment, which the court rejected. So I'm not saying the court is wrong; just that this broadness is going to invite criticism.
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- johnpcapitalist
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
What Bob said. OTOH, there's this in footnote 4 of the decision:bob wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 pm While I have no problem with the court suspending his license for lying to court, I think the court is overreaching a bit with lies told to others.
Giuliani has a duty of candor with the courts. But disciplining lawyers for false statements generally would catch more than just Giuliani.
The NY ethics rules do have very broad no-lying provisions. And Giuliani's primary defense was the First Amendment, which the court rejected. So I'm not saying the court is wrong; just that this broadness is going to invite criticism.
I can't offhand think of a better way to persuade a court that you're full of baloney.In opposition to this motion, respondent refers to affidavits he has not provided (Giuliani affidavit ¶¶11, 50, 61, 62, 66). He also relies on a “confidential informant” (Giuliani affidavit ¶82). We do not understand, nor does respondent explain why, as a private attorney seemingly unconnected to law enforcement he would have access to a “confidential informant” that we cannot also have access to. At yet another point respondent claims he relies on a Trump attorney who chooses not to be identified (Giuliani affidavit ¶43). Respondent also refers to hundreds of witnesses, experts, and investigative reports, none of which have been provided or identified (Giuliani affidavit ¶14) and an Excel spreadsheet, also not provided, purportedly listing the names of thousands of deceased voters who allegedly cast ballots in Michigan (Giuliani affidavit ¶51)
Re: Rudy Giuliani
No doubt. But suspension for lying to the public is going to run into some non-frivolous First Amendment arguments.
So, again, what is surprising is that the court didn't just stick to the lying-to-courts charge to justify the interim suspension.
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
Yes friends, a manure spreader in action...
- RTH10260
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
My pick from Mike Dunford:
https:// twitter.com/questauthority/status/1408113332394024963
https:// twitter.com/questauthority/status/1408113332394024963
Mike Dunford @questauthority
My read of this is that it's not only an interim suspension, it's an interim suspension because there is uncontroverted evidence of misconduct, and there has NOT been a hearing yet??
WOW.
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- zekeb
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
IMO any licensed lawyer who lies to the public while promoting himself as an attorney, therefore implying that he knows what he's talking about, deserves a suspension.
Largo al factotum.
Re: Rudy Giuliani
Mike's take on Footnote 4, about the confidential source the numerous affidavits that Giuliani relies on but refused to share with the court, and the "hundreds of witnesses, experts, andinvestigative reports, none of which have been provided or identified."
Oh, Rudy. No. Oh no. No. No. No. No. What WERE YOU THINKING???
You're trying to rely on things YOU DID NOT GIVE THEM?? AND A "CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANT"???
No.
Re: Rudy Giuliani
I Could be wrong but I read that as a hearing by the court, not the State Bar Grievance Committee.RTH10260 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:47 pm My pick from Mike Dunford:
https:// twitter.com/questauthority/status/1408113332394024963Mike Dunford @questauthority
My read of this is that it's not only an interim suspension, it's an interim suspension because there is uncontroverted evidence of misconduct, and there has NOT been a hearing yet??
WOW.► Show Spoiler
- LM K
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
Agreed. He lied to the public in his capacity as a lawyer while claiming to represent the public's needs for a "secure election".
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
-Dunford tweetWell, dig into it in a second anyway. I want to make sure I convey how unusual this is.
Generally, to get suspended on an interim basis, you have to do something along the lines of taking a literal crap, while high on a mixed cocktail of illicit substances, on the judge's desk.
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
If you can't lie to yourself, who can you lie to?
Re: Rudy Giuliani
Parker says My Pillow doesn't tell Lindell what to say/do. Nichols asks if My Pillow has ever told Lindell to stop mentioning the company when he's talking about the election. Parker says the company has never tried to muzzle Lindell.
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- SuzieC
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
I think that's exactly the point.
So did Dershowitz have any contribution to the proceedings?
So did Dershowitz have any contribution to the proceedings?
Re: Rudy Giuliani
With any luck, he kept his underwear on.
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Re: Rudy Giuliani
You can really hear their grifter roots in their arguments. Fraudsters and sleazy marketers must be salivating at their 'you should be able to say anything about anyone and let the people decide if it is true' ideas.