Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[bob]

It says that one Colorado report lumped their discussion of the Proud Boys together with others in a section on white supremacist violence

A random internet troll knows more than law enforcement.

But I'm really glad the JAQing off has expanded to white supremacists.

[Suranis]

But again, that article also doesn't tell me what their racial ideology is

So apparently if an article does not tell you what a well known group believes, then it is impossible to know what they believe when they are broaught up. Ok, I guess you are going to join the Provisional IRA because you thought they delivered flowers to British Troops and Protestant schoolchildren, because an article didn't explain their believes when they were brought up.

What a load of shit. Totally Trolling. Common knowledge is assumed when people are reading News. "The Article didn't tell me that Hamas hates Jews!" The Article didn't tell me that Mao was a Communist!" "The Article didn't tell me that the Pope is a Catholic!" "At no point did the article tell me that Bears take a shit in the woods!"

Its basically using the technique of assuming an extremely high definition of the word "Knowledge" and then hiding behind that definition claim ignorance. Its a subtle attack on the whole concept that you can know something.

But, to dip into my Philosophy degree, if you want to play that game, the only thing you can absolutely 100% KNOW is that you exist. Everything else is based on assumptions, interpretation and conclusions based on sensory input. So, sorry, your definition falls flat as you cant claim anything based on anything if you cling to it.

[bob]

It is also burden shifting.

Just make a bogus offer of "Prove to my satisfaction the Proud Boys are White supremacists, and I'll donate $5 million to the charity of your choice" and be done with it.

[Shizzle Popped]

Now I remember why I rarely visit this topic. Troll-a-rama. Holy shit.

[andersweinstein]

But again, that article also doesn't tell me what their racial ideology is

Its basically using the technique of assuming an extremely high definition of the word "Knowledge" and then hiding behind that definition claim ignorance. Its a subtle attack on the whole concept that you can know something.

But, to dip into my Philosophy degree, if you want to play that game, the only thing you can absolutely 100% KNOW is that you exist. Everything else is based on assumptions, interpretation and conclusions based on sensory input. So, sorry, your definition falls flat as you cant claim anything based on anything if you cling to it.

I also have a Philosophy degree. I'm not doing anything you say here. I genuinely don't understand the Proud Boys ideology. I would like to understand it *for myself* and understand for myself why it counts as white supremacist, something I know they deny. It would not be at all impossible to convince me they're white supremacists, just explain some of their ideology rather than giving me things to take on authority, why is that unreasonable?

[Dave from down under]

Their ideology is…

Pain

Hurt

Hate

Degradation

Humiliation

For anyone that isn’t them, and for the weaker ones of them.

Given that they are mostly white and support white supremacists

Can you make an informed judgement?

Or just defend the indefensible?

[Dave from down under]

If you are honest in learning

Perhaps start with

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... proud-boys

Then once you have completed your investigation of their various motivations you could post your findings in the prou boys thread.

Just remember Kyle was happy to associate with them.

[Resume18]

Being Prouds Boy adjacent isn't something you'd want on your CV, unless you're applying for your RWNJ certificate.

[northland10]

Their ideology is…

Pain

Hurt

Hate

Degradation

Humiliation

For anyone that isn’t them, and for the weaker ones of them.

Given that they are mostly white and support white supremacists

Can you make an informed judgement?

Or just defend the indefensible?

They seek to be the Sturmabteilung (i.e. SA, i.e. brownshirts).

[raison de arizona]

I was bored for a nanosecond so I asked ChatGPT for you, couldn't be bothered with writing it up myself!

The label of "white supremacists" for the Proud Boys is supported by various actions and affiliations of the group, although they themselves deny being a white supremacist organization. Here are some points that contribute to this perception:

Rhetoric and Ideology: Proud Boys have promoted and espoused racist, anti-immigrant, and misogynistic rhetoric, which aligns with broader white supremacist ideologies.

Association with Extremist Groups: Members of the Proud Boys have been seen collaborating and participating in events with other extremist groups that hold openly white supremacist beliefs.

Participation in Racist Events: Proud Boys members have participated in events known for their racial tensions, such as the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017, which was a gathering of various white supremacist groups.

Public Statements and Actions: Some leaders and members have made public statements or engaged in actions that are racist or white supremacist in nature.

Legal and Governmental Designation: While the U.S. government has not officially designated the Proud Boys as a white supremacist organization, they have been classified as an extremist group with ties to white nationalism by the FBI.

These points collectively contribute to the perception and allegations of the group's association with white supremacist activities and ideologies, despite their official stance against such labels.

[bob]

It would not be at all impossible to convince me they're white supremacists, just explain some of their ideology rather than giving me things to take on authority, why is that unreasonable?

It is unreasonable because sealioning is a form of trolling.

[keith]

But, to dip into my Philosophy degree, if you want to play that game, the only thing you can absolutely 100% KNOW is that you exist. Everything else is based on assumptions, interpretation and conclusions based on sensory input. So, sorry, your definition falls flat as you cant claim anything based on anything if you cling to it.

Phenomenology


Ultimate conclusion

Edit: OOPS - here's the CORRECT conclusion

[Slim Cognito]

It would not be at all impossible to convince me they're white supremacists, just explain some of their ideology rather than giving me things to take on authority, why is that unreasonable?

It is unreasonable because [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning]sealioning is a form of trolling[/url].

I learned something new today.

[andersweinstein]

I was bored for a nanosecond so I asked ChatGPT for you, couldn't be bothered with writing it up myself!

The label of "white supremacists" for the Proud Boys is supported by various actions and affiliations of the group, although they themselves deny being a white supremacist organization. Here are some points that contribute to this perception:
…

That strikes me as a pretty good answer! As I read it, it acknowledges some nuance to the question. Like, the classification, which it notes the US government does not apply, sounds like it’s based mainly on the company they keep and their basically “walking like a duck, quacking like a duck, etc” in the eyes of people, rather than official ideology. “White Supremacist-adjacent” one might say.

[Dave from down under]

OFFS!!!

It is a duck!

they are such cowards as not to come out with it and say it proudly!

And they rely on quislings and enablers to pretend otherwise.

But… go and join them and find out for yourself

[Slim Cognito]

[bob]

OFFS!!!

It is a duck!

While the U.S. government has not officially designated it as a duck, it has been classified as a small, short-necked aquatic fowl.

"Duck-adjacent," some no one might say.

[Dave from down under]

A sea lion will be along to respectfully disagree

Duck is the common name for numerous species of waterfowl in the family Anatidae. Ducks are generally smaller and shorter-necked than swans and geese, which are members of the same family. Divided among several subfamilies, they are a form taxon; they do not represent a monophyletic group (the group of all descendants of a single common ancestral species), since swans and geese are not considered ducks. Ducks are mostly aquatic birds, and may be found in both fresh water and sea water.

[MN-Skeptic]

Duck is the common name for numerous species of waterfowl in the family Anatidae. Ducks are generally smaller and shorter-necked than swans and geese, which are members of the same family. Divided among several subfamilies, they are a form taxon; they do not represent a monophyletic group (the group of all descendants of a single common ancestral species), since swans and geese are not considered ducks. Ducks are mostly aquatic birds, and may be found in both fresh water and sea water.

And the loon - the state bird of Minnesota - is neither a duck nor a goose.

[raison de arizona]

And the loon - the state bird of Minnesota - is neither a duck nor a goose.

But is it white?

(It is not.)