Climate Change, Declining Births, & Economics

[Lani]

From my morning email from NYT

Maternity wards are shuttering in Italy. Ghost cities are appearing in China. Hundreds of thousands of properties in Germany have been leveled and the land turned into parks.

The world’s demographics are changing, pushing toward more deaths than births. Though some countries’ populations continue to grow, fertility rates are falling nearly everywhere else as women have gained more access to education and contraception. Demographers now predict that toward the middle of this century, the global population will enter a sustained decline for the first time.

A planet with fewer people could ease pressure on resources, slow climate change and reduce burdens for women. But the data also points to changes that are hard to fathom: Fewer workers could upend the ways societies are organized and our ideas about family and nation.

You can access the NYT via private window. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/22/worl ... 48368741aa

[SuzieC]

Furthermore, if the US Supreme Court reverses or severely restricts Roe v. Wade, I predict a backlash. Women are not going to give up their hard won gains in the workplace. Instead, I believe they will marry later, stop having sex, and have fewer or no children.

If a relationship with a man means forced birth, many will decline to become involved.

[Suranis]

Uh... far be it for me to comment as a foul sperm carrier who thirsts to impregnate every woman I see with the horrid disease of Pregnancy, but Birth control exists, and women have been in childless relationships that involve sex for literally Centuries.

Of you are going to practice Misandry, at least make it have a lick of sense.

[AndyinPA]

These same people would also like to get rid of birth control.

[SuzieC]

They also want to overturn Griswold v. Coonecticut.

[SuzieC]

Of you are going to practice Misandry, at least make it have a lick of sense.

How is it misandry to state that women will decline to become involved in relationships with men if it means state required forced birth? I certainly don't hate men. I love men and have been attracted to many of them. However, if they were allowed to be the boss of my reproductive choices, I would refuse to be with any of them.

[Suranis]

Because its exactly the same as you are streaming at Santorum for doing with his "Man on Dog" line - taking a completely stupid example and slapping it ontop of another issue that involves something you hate. In his case the gay, in your case the dong.

"But I dont see how that's the same as,, "

That's not my problem.

PLUS, the fact is that Abortion is massively contributing to the world depopulation due to Girls getting aborted at a greater rate than boys, for various reasons and noe of them to do with "reproductive choice". That's far more a factor than a theoretical problem of women choosing to be celibate rather than be forced by that EVIL MAN to catch that horrible cancerous Toumor from their injecting penis thingies and be forced to have it burst out of you like the Alien OH THE HUMANITY!!

Fuck off with that nonsense. The whole language you are using is wierd and Misandrist, and if you cant see that then you have been indoctrinated to be blind to it.

[SuzieC]

Whoa. That is a weird and hostile response.

Forget misandry. Try misogynist.

[Suranis]

Yes, in a forum where we are hostile to ridiculous ideas, the only reason for me to act hostile when I am confronted by a ridiculous idea loaded down with a hateful attitude is that I hate women.

Anyway, it occurs to me that I should back up my assertion that Abortion is a net contributor to Population decline

https://www.liveaction.org/news/abortio ... 8kLqi-_TMw

Of the four largest economies cited as having a declining birthrate, three are notable for their high abortion rates: Japan, China, and the U.S.

Newsweek notes that in Japan:

Abortion is illegal, but there is an exemption for economic hardship, which is claimed by most of the 200,000 women who have abortions each year in Japan.

“The rule is, you can only get it if you don’t have the money to support the child, but in reality we do the procedure for whoever needs it,” says Dr. Yoshiko Onishi of Tokyo’s Parkside Hiroo Ladies Clinic.

And few need to be enlightened on the problem of mass abortion in China. While a global leader in many areas, it’s a global leader in shame when it comes to its liberal abortion policy. Its infamous one-child policy left a horrific legacy:

China’s one-child policy was established by Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping in 1979 to restrict communist China’s population growth and limited couples to having only one child…. it remained in effect for more than 35 years. Fines, pressures to abort a pregnancy, and even forced sterilization of women accompanied second or subsequent pregnancies.

Concerns over “a shrinking labor pool and smaller young population to take care of the number of elderly people in ensuing decades” led to the policy’s relaxation, now allowing two children, but:

The one-child rule has been estimated to have reduced population growth in the country of nearly 1.4 billion (estimated, 2017) by as much as 300 million people over its first 20 years.

Of course, here in the U.S., abortion advocates have made the idea of having a child a complication rather than a treasure. “No woman should be forced to birth a baby!” they cry. “A woman isn’t free without unrestricted abortion access!” With close to a million abortions a year, the U.S. is easily killing off some of its own. Though the abortion rate is falling, it’s not fast enough, according to economists. Sadly, the U.S. abortion rate even made the top ten in the world, as reported by the United Nations in 2013.

The report says:

With a fertility rate of only 1.6, China’s population will drop 28 percent by 2100, ceding the title of world’s most-populous nation to India, the UN predicts. With a fertility rate of 1.4, Japan’s population will plunge 34 percent by 2100. The U.S.’s headcount is expected to keep growing, despite a low fertility rate of 1.8, because of large numbers of immigrants, though government policies could change that.

Indeed, immigration is one of the most obvious answers for economists, and it’s the reason Germany, with its low birth rate, is finally on the rise — despite concerns it was a frighteningly shrinking nation:

The message is that ongoing high immigration, coupled with a recent increase in the birth rate, could keep the country’s population stable for another forty years… In 2015, Germany recorded net migration of more than one million people as a result of the arrival of refugees from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2016, that figure was 750,000 people.

Additionally, Bloomberg reports:

Germany’s fertility rate, at 1.5, is the highest in decades, thanks in part to a recent immigration surge but also to adoption of family-friendly policies, including raising parental-leave allowances.

While Germany basically considers all abortion illegal, though there are some exceptions, in Japan, abortion advocates fear losing the ease of abortion access because of the declining birth rate, which is an echo of what U.S. abortion advocates say when they see conservative policies put in place.

[SuzieC]

Hey Foggy. Suranis called me stupid and ridiculous and said I hated "the dong." While I don't give a fucking shit what he thinks of me is this the way he is allowed to treat women on the board who disagree with him?

[Suranis]

An essay on Gender based Abortion in the United states.

https://benjaminbarber.org/abortion-bas ... -cultures/

New Scientist talking about gender based Abortion taking place in Canada

https://www.newscientist.com/article/20 ... in-canada/

The Independent talking about Gender based abortions in the UK

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 40851.html

Wiki article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion

Sooo... Abortion kinda denies women the right to exist, rather than women deciding to be all free of male injected prego-cancer and being empowered. Who knew.

And Gallup polls on the gender attitudes to Abortion reveals that they are pretty similar for both men and women. So about the attitude that there are more evil men thirsting to impregnate women, and force them to have chestbusters, that's just wrong.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abo ... ender.aspx

Leaving aside the snark, I think that one of the things that happens when you have a overabundance of one gender being born is that Nature nudges the line to the other gender to redress the balance. So more conceptions in this situation are female, which means more female gender selected abortions and the overall birth rate goes down further,. Plus, right or wrong, a situation where Men cant get a mate because there are simply less women to go around causes frustration and that causes conflict, leading to further depopulation.

So, ya its not all sunshine and roses.

[Suranis]

Hey Foggy. Suranis called me stupid and ridiculous and said I hated "the dong." While I don't give a fucking shit what he thinks of me is this the way he is allowed to treat women on the board who disagree with him?

No, I called your idea stupid and ridiculous, and and that it indicated an attitude of hating "the dong." I said nothing about you. As far as I am concerned you are a perfectly nice person that happens to have a wrong idea in your head. Which is what most people are, including me.

And I hate to shock you, but I've called Men here ridiculous too when someone pushes my buttons. I'm an equal opportunity exploder.

Anyway, I've made my point so its over as far as I'm concerned. Have a great evening/week.

[SuzieC]

Fair enough. I also think your ideas are stupid, ridiculous, misogynistic, and terrible for world climate change.

I repeat that i don't give a fuck what you think of me. You started a thread called "Suranis" seeking sympathy for your problems. Got many sympathizers?

[Clairez]

Hey Foggy. Suranis called me stupid and ridiculous and said I hated "the dong." While I don't give a fucking shit what he thinks of me is this the way he is allowed to treat women on the board who disagree with him?

No, I called your idea stupid and ridiculous, and and that it indicated an attitude of hating "the dong." I said nothing about you. As far as I am concerned you are a perfectly nice person that happens to have a wrong idea in your head. Which is what most people are, including me.

And I hate to shock you, but I've called Men here ridiculous too when someone pushes my buttons. I'm an equal opportunity exploder.

Anyway, I've made my point so its over as far as I'm concerned. Have a great evening/week.

I don't think her idea is stupid or ridiculous. There have always been and will always be, women who refuse to be a slave to biology. If that means choosing not to have a partner or insisting their partner have a vasectomy, then that is what they will do.

[sugar magnolia]

...when someone pushes my buttons. I'm an equal opportunity exploder.

Maybe that's your problem. It's not our responsibility to know and avoid your triggers, it's your responsibility to avoid exploding at someone when they push your buttons. With isolated exceptions, everyone else on the board manages to respond civilly when one of their buttons gets pushed, but for some reason you seem to think you are special and can go at someone with teeth bared if they dare offend you. A man arguing about women's feelings, or a non-citizen arguing about American politics doesn't exactly put you in a position of strength, so your knee-jerk attacks on people just come across as deranged.

[neonzx]

HOLY HELL, what did I just walk into?

When I was in elementary school, the world population was some ~4 billion. Now it's 7.5 billion. You need move babies? How about first taking care of the ones we already have that are neglected/parent-less instead of pumping out more?

We're overpopulated, not under-populated.

[Foggy]

Wow, i missed the fireworks.

I'm an equal opportunity exploder.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You're always the first to attack the other member of the forum, if you don't like the ideas they're sharing.

Make it stop.

[RVInit]

Dr Michael Mann - The New Climate War

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

https://www.bbc.com/news-uk-england-cornwall-57406136

G7: 'Mount Recyclemore' of leaders made from electronic waste in Cornwall

_118849157_5271a9c3-351b-40fd-94ca-7aa9adae5d31.jpg (138.29 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

A sculpture of the G7 leaders shaped like Mount Rushmore made of electronic waste has been erected in Cornwall ahead of the G7 Summit.

It has been named "Mount Recyclemore" and bids to highlight the damage caused by the disposal of electronic devices.

Sculptor Joe Rush said he hoped it would show they needed to be made more easily reusable or recyclable.

He said: "It needs to be repairable or made to last longer because the stuff is going into landfill."

[RVInit]

https://michaelmann.net/content/published-articles

Dr. Michael E. Mann is Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at Penn State, with joint appointments in the Department of Geosciences and the Earth and Environmental Systems Institute (EESI). He is also director of the Penn State Earth System Science Center (ESSC).

Mann is the author of several books including his most recent work, The New Climate War, which shows how fossil fuel companies have waged a thirty-year campaign to deflect blame and responsibility and delay action on climate change, and offers a battle plan for how we can save the planet. To learn more about the book, click here.

[RVInit]

[Slim Cognito]

The earth is on fire. Food supplies are drying up. Waterways are drying up. Sea levels are rising. In this country, safety nets like food stamps and Section 8 assistance are (not so) slowly being taken away from us. Affordable daycare is nonexistent. There's still a huge Medicaid gap in red states so medical care is still a out-of-reach luxury for many.

Yeah, let's make lots o 'babies...and watch them starve to death.

[SuzieC]

Just as many of us predicted, it's starting. The paleoneanderthals want to ban or abolish birth control. According to Claire McGaskill's Twiiter, misogynist Republican assholes in Missouri have introduced legislation banning birth control. (Sorry can't link Twitter.) Apparently they are banking on SCOTUS to overrule Griswold v. Connecticut and Eisenstadt v. Baird.

As I said previously, if any of this happens, time to adopt the Lysistrata strategy.

[jcolvin2]

As I said previously, if any of this happens, time to adopt the Lysistrata strategy.

The Lysi-stratagem!

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

The Lysicastratethem!