Rudy Giuliani

[neonzx]

That reminds me…

Can the current President revoke a previous Presidential pardon?

No. (the short answer)

[Maybenaut]

I just finished reading Judge Howell’s opinion rejecting Giuliani’s motion for a bench trial on the issue of damages.

Fascinating.

She talked in detail about the caselaw involving defendants who default by never appearing at all and defendants who default in some other way (as a sanction, for example, which is what happened in this case). There’s a lot of caselaw, not all of it is binding in the D.C. Circuit, and she said that neither side’s position reflects the majority view of applicable law.

Plaintiffs were arguing that they had an absolute right to a jury trial, but Judge Howell said they didn’t have an absolute right but she was going to give them one anyway under her inherent authority because (a) the amount of damages in this case will be a contested issue of fact which typically falls within the province of a jury; and (b) it would be unfair to reward Giuliani’s misconduct by depriving the plaintiffs of their chosen method for determining damages.

[Slim Cognito]

Thank you for the sum-up!

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[Rolodex]

Thanks! I remember when that judgment was made and it does seem fair that the plaintiffs won't be deprived of the jury trial they requested. While our legal system is set up to allegedly protect the rights of the accused, at this point, he's already been found guilty, so erring on the side of the plaintiffs seems just. They didn't get a jury trial on the facts of the case, so this seems fair.

And hoo boy jury selection will be interesting. Hope someone live tweets it!

[Sam the Centipede]

Thanks! I remember when that judgment was made and it does seem fair that the plaintiffs won't be deprived of the jury trial they requested. While our legal system is set up to allegedly protect the rights of the accused, at this point, he's already been found guilty, so erring on the side of the plaintiffs seems just. They didn't get a jury trial on the facts of the case, so this seems fair.

And hoo boy jury selection will be interesting. Hope someone live tweets it!

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong…

It's a civil case, so there isn't an accused nor anyone guilty. Giuliani has been found liable to pay damages, so guilty in a colloquial sense but he hasn't been convicted of a crime (that's for other courts!!).

In a civil case, it's more about fairness. The plaintiff has the onus of proving their case, but not beyond reasonable doubt, and the defendant has to play ball. I think in a criminal case the defendant can sit on their hands, say nothing, do nothing, and the prosecution still has to prove their case. But Giuliani didn't cooperate, presumably because he believes that would lead to an even worse outcome than he is headed for, and his punishment is to be adjudged liable (guilty if you like).

[Rolodex]

You're right. I was thinking more about the criminal system, but in my defense, I'm coming down with something and overscheduled - never a good time to write a thoughtful post.

That said, I hope they jury takes every penny he has and any he'll make for the rest of his life. He won't need any money except commission funds once he's in the pokey over the GA case. I can't remember if the case against him from his former assistant is criminal (sexual abuse?) or civil (didn't pay what he promised), but that'll hopefully keep him broke, too.

[Foggy]

If Roodles says he fears going to prison for the rest of his life, I believe him, and I'm very glad. I hope he fears that every day.

[Volkonski]

Judge rips Giuliani lawyer for ex-mayor’s absence at Georgia poll worker pre-trial hearing

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... press.coop

U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell harshly questioned lawyer Joseph Sibley over Giuliani’s unexpected absence and whether they were ready for the trial set for next week, which will determine how much money Giuliani owes two Georgia poll workers for defaming them after the 2020 election.

Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss sued Giuliani, a close ally of former President Trump and ex-mayor of New York, after he made a series of false statements about their work at the State Farm Arena in Atlanta, where ballots were being counted. He and other Trump allies falsely claimed the election workers — a mother-daughter duo — committed fraud by processing “suitcases” of illicit ballots. The poll workers were both present in court in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday.

Sibley told Howell that Giuliani is in New York and took the blame for his absence, asserting that he misinterpreted the judge’s standing order from September requiring all parties to be present during the trial and at hearings ahead of it.

“How could you have missed that,” Howell asked Sibley, visibly frustrated. “And did you miss it?”

“I did…I apologize,” Sibley replied.

“Well, that sets the tone for this, doesn’t it?” Howell remarked, later adding that Giuliani’s absence is “not a good start to the trial we’re about to begin.”

The Hill requested comment from Sibley.

The hearing was scheduled to address last-minute logistics ahead of the trial, which is expected to begin Monday with jury selection.

[Foggy]

Roodles can't attend the trial, he'll get the DTs and collapse in court. He's too far gone in the alcoholism. Imho, ymmv.

When I was a public defender, our office represented a guy who was a drinker. One time, the judge ordered our lawyer to tell him that he would be arrested if'n he came to court drunk again.

So he showed up sober and left in the ambulance. Sober wasn't a good look for him.

I suspect Roodles will be hospitalized over the weekend. Be good for him if he was.

[Dave from down under]

He could attend with an IV of his preferred drop..

[chancery]

I just finished reading Judge Howell’s opinion rejecting Giuliani’s motion for a bench trial on the issue of damages.

Fascinating.

The twitter commenters have been hard on Giuliani. However, considering that he's doing his own legal work and has lots of troubles to deal with, I'd give him something of a pass on belatedly discovering the substantial authority for the proposition that plaintiffs do not, in fact, have a _right_ to a jury trial here. It's an obscure topic and the result isn't what I would have guessed.

While Judge Howell stated pro forma that she could have peremptorily denied the motion for violation of the deadline for pretrial motions, she wisely and fairly evaluated the issue at length, substantially agreeing with Giuliani. (It's notable how rarely a good judge will decide an important issue solely on a technicality like missing a scheduling order deadline.)

Judge Howell's ultimate resolution, is, I think, well within her discretion, although I think the opposite result (switching to a bench trial) would also have been within her discretion. The case for hardship to the plaintiffs is perhaps not as compelling as the opinion suggests, IMO. The course of litigation can be chaotic; parties and their counsel put up with lots worse as a matter of course.

In any event, the thorough and thoughtful nature of her opinion makes the result appeal-proof.

[p0rtia]

Giuliani trial re Freeman/Moss jury selection starts today (started at 9 AM) in DC. Ryan Reilly of Sedition Hunters fame seems to be live blogging.

https://x.com/ryanjreilly/status/173421 ... 74119?s=20

[p0rtia]

!!!!!!!

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[NewMexGirl]

!!!!!!!

Thank you, p0rtia!


Does anybody know if Rudes is being represented by Sibley today

[p0rtia]

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[bill_g]

Giudy, Giudy, Giudy

[bob]

[p0rtia]

!!!!!!!

Thank you, p0rtia!


Does anybody know if Rudes is being represented by Sibley today

Yes. Sibley -- He gave the opening statement.

[p0rtia]

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[Slim Cognito]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around "civil equivalent of the death penalty." If he clutches his pearls any tighter, he'll strangle himself.

[Frater I*I]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around "civil equivalent of the death penalty." If he clutches his pearls any tighter, he'll strangle himself.

Dear Cthulhu....

[Sam the Centipede]

Maybe the jury will take Sibley's unintended hint: "civil equivalent of the death penalty"? Why bother with equivalents? Just strap Giuliani into that big wooden chair and throw the switch! Oh, they can't? Twenty years in the pen? Oh, they can't do that either? Well, bye bye assets.

[Rolodex]

Screenshot 2023-12-11 at 10.40.17 AM.png

I was following "giuliani" on "latest" on twitter. That stupid Gateway Pundit thing was like every other post! I had a giant block party. Holy cow they're persistent.

[NewMexGirl]

!!!!!!!

Thank you, p0rtia!


Does anybody know if Rudes is being represented by Sibley today

Yes. Sibley -- He gave the opening statement.

I am not certain the Rudes is getting the best representation possible. I’ll leave it at that.

[Kendra]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/12/politics ... index.html

The federal judge overseeing Rudy Giuliani’s defamation damages trial in Washington, DC, rebuked the former Donald Trump lawyer Tuesday over “quite defamatory” comments he made a day earlier to reporters about the two Georgia election workers at the center of the case.

US District Judge Beryl Howell said Giuliani’s comments outside the federal courthouse in DC “could support another defamation claim.”

The remarks about Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss were “negative, quite defamatory statements about them yet again.”