State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[bill_g]

They have been around their client for so long, they are starting to channel him -

Oh, WE ARE the MOST disrespected in The HISTORY of court cases. It's unbelieveable.

[noblepa]

Habba similarly complained that the AG's office isn't allowing her to do her job, and that they're constantly on their feet with objections.

Huh. That never happens.
/ffs

Isn't that sort of the AG's job; to make sure that she doesn't violate the rules of evidence or court procedure? If she doesn't think that they should be objecting so much, perhaps she shouldn't be so objectionable in her behavior.

IIRC, the judge has sustained most of the AG team's objections, so its not like they are making frivolous objections.

[Sam the Centipede]

IIRC, the judge has sustained most of the AG team's objections, so its not like they are making frivolous objections.

No no no no no!

That shows how the FAILING judge is so dishonest, so biased against my attorneys, and let me tell you they are GREAT attorneys, the failing judge doesn't know what he's doing, so sad.

/trumpmode

[Volkonski]

Ivanka Trump must testify in fraud case, judge rules

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canad ... press.coop

Ivanka Trump will have to testify in a business fraud case against her father and brothers, a New York judge ruled.

She had previously sought not to take the stand, arguing that she had moved out of the city and had stepped away from the Trump Organization.

But Judge Arthur Engoron said she still maintains ties to Trump businesses and real estate in New York.

He has already ruled that Donald Trump inflated the value of his properties to secure favourable loans.

The trial focuses on six other claims made in the lawsuit, including falsification of business records, insurance fraud and conspiracy.

The defendants deny the allegations.

Prosecutors have argued that Ms Trump has important information to share about the case.

In his ruling on Friday, Judge Engoron sided with the prosecutors, writing: "Ms. Trump has clearly availed herself of the privilege of doing business in New York".

[p0rtia]

Karen Friedman Agnifilo interviewed Danya Perry, Cohen's lawyer, on the MTN channel

I'm a big fan of Karen's insights (ex #2 at the Manhattan DA's office), and have been eager to hear from Danya.

Lots of interesting deets about Cohen's testimony this week. I got answers to a couple of questions that had been bugging me.

The big one was, Why didn't the prosecution object to Habba's insults and bullying? Granted, I've only read a couple of reporters live-blogging the trial, but it sure seemed to me that Habba was well over the line (I've seen her in action live, and know how obnoxious she can be, and how little judges like it).

Danya's answer "Yeah, that made me so uncomfortable. Why weren't they objecting? ... I don't know for sure, but I guess that they were trying to show that they were not protecting Cohen, and wanted to take a neutral position."

She also shared that Engoran let most of Habba's crap slide, but now and then would ask her "not to do that." Danya said the cross of Cohen was riddled with legal mistakes and misstatements of the record.

Danya also said that Cohen had not met with the OAG before his testimony. That was a wow for me--and for Danya too.

Recommended.

ETA: Don't be put off by the graphic and headline on the video. MTN does that--drives me crazy--but the convo itself is delightfully in the legal weeds and full of Cohen info.

[Volkonski]

The New York Times :press:
@nytimes@press.coop
Trump Family Members Set to Testify at Civil Fraud Trial Next Week

Donald J. Trump’s two adult sons and daughter Ivanka are expected to take the witness stand starting on Wednesday. The former president is set to testify on Nov. 6.

[chancery]

Cohen has been trying (unsuccessfully thus far) to go after the SDNY people that he says pressured him into admitting to things he had not done to protect his wife.

I think it's effing stupid of Habba. The story is well-known; he's been consistent on it for years; and there's no jurty there to bamboozle. Plus, Habba is taking cheap shots, which is not going to impress Engoran.

Yet again: Audience of one (hint: not the judge).

Thanks p0rtia & bob, those are interesting points.

I haven't been following the saga of Michael Cohen, so the "I lied at my plea allocution" testimony was surprising to me.

I've had witnesses with prior conviction, and witnesses who had said things they needed to disavow, but I would be very concerned indeed about putting on testimony that included the plonking admission of having lied under oath to a judge.

There are lots of ways to characterize a guilty plea as unfair, and to me it would be worth a great deal of preparation effort to come up with a better way to put it than saying "sure, I lied."

I don't think that represents what happened (these transcripts take forever to come out!). I think it was, on cross, "Yes, I lied." Whether on direct or redirect, I have no doubt that Cohen did indeed give his account as to why he lied. He has it down pat, and is as prepared as it gets. I've heard it 20 times; it's in his book; it's in his depo for this case, and the only people in the room who didn't know the story were reporters who hadn't done their homework.

However, since, as you say, Cohen is firmly locked in as having repeatedly said that he lied, I can understand that his lawyer and the prosecution probably concluded that they were better off sticking to it. And certainly, better to say it straight than to dance around it.

I think perhaps the prosecution wanted to see how he would hold up. Perhaps they were doing a solid for Alvin Bragg. Cohen is due to testify at the hush-money trial, and apparently lawyers from both sides of that case were in the courtroom, watching.

But I don't understand why you think the cross was cheap shot. Even if a story is well known, it's not in the record until it's put in the record, and it would be a blunder for Trump's lawyers not to do so. And I'm not saying it was masterful advocacy, just a decent piece of work, even if the fish was large and the barrel small.

I had no problem with the cross; it was expected and Cohen has had a lot of practice explaining what he did and when he did it. Habba prides herself on being tough, and that's fine too, mainly because she frequently comes off as non-serious (one of the commentators pointed out the irony of fuckhead's current attack dog attacking fuckhead's former attack dog). What I objected to was that she got snarky and insulting--condescending. I'm sorry I don't remember the specifics, but she was an idiot--throwing out cheap insults fashioned just for fuckhead, attempting to belittle Cohen. Engoran knows the score; my thought was that her arrogant approach would rub anyone the wrong way, including the judge. She's not exactly Clarence Darrow.

And the thing is, we credit Cohen's testimony, because it's consistent with abundant long-standing evidence as to Trump's character and behavior, and because we want to. But while I'm willing to accept that Cohen has at some level seen the error of his ways, he's doing so now because it's in his interest. Does anyone think for a minute that the new Cohen will henceforth embody "the punctilio of an honor the most sensitive?"

That's a question I often ask myself. I believe in redemption, so I'll watch with interest over the coming years. But he was such a thug for fuckhead in the old days, and has no regrets about how he strong-armed people on fuckhead's behalf. Time will tell. Currently, he's suffering from ptsd and has impressive anger issues. I would too, if I got a three year jail sentence for (among other things) criming on behalf of individual 1, and then watched as individual 1 got off scott free.

It may be that the totality of the prosecution's presentation, including corroborating evidence for Cohen's specific testimony, will contain, if not fully immunize, the impact of this admission; we'll see.

My IANAL take is that he gives depth to what is largely a paper case. They don't need him to prove the case--after all, Engoran has already found fuckhead et al liable for the big Count 1--he's there as the one ex-fuckhead employee who is willing to speak without hesitation. I mean, it's no surprise when he says that fuckhead told them to cook the books--we have the cooked books. The absence of his testimony does not put a hole in the case.

Thanks, p0rtia, for that comprehensive and thoughtful post. I certainly agree that the snark and the smirks confirms our poor opinion of Habba. You've obviously been following Cohen and this trial more closely than I have.

One thing I quibble with a bit. I'm not sure that I'd fault a journalist covering this trial for not reading Cohen's book, unless their beat is his corner of the fuckhead world. To a certain extent a trial should be able to stand on its own for an experienced observer, and Cohen at the end of the day is not the most important witness. I agree though that "he gives depth to what is largely a paper case." Lisa Rubin @lawofruby made some similar points here: https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... rcna121952

[RTH10260]

Trump, his adult children expected to testify in N.Y. fraud trial soon
The former president, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump will likely be called to the stand in coming days

By Shayna Jacobs
October 27, 2023 at 2:01 p.m. EDT

NEW YORK — Donald Trump and three of his adult children are scheduled to testify between Nov. 1 and Nov. 6 in the $250 million civil fraud case that alleges years of financial misconduct by the Trump Organization and those who run it.

The announcement of the Trump family’s upcoming courtroom appearances was made on Friday after New York Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron ruled that Ivanka Trump, who is no longer a named defendant in the case, may be called by attorneys from the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James to testify under subpoena.

The former president — who is a named defendant along with Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump — is slated to be the last of the four Trump family witnesses, expected to take the stand on Nov. 6, the day before Election Day.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... r-testify/
gift link https://wapo.st/47qQhsT

[NewMexGirl]

You know what I miss most about law Twitter? All the color you get, even from the IAALs. Stuff like rudeness to the judge, near fisticuffs in the courtroom among attorneys, an attorney getting tazed, Ivanka showing evidence of “kidney” work, that kind of thing. We just don’t get that from mainstream media. Sarah was right: lamestream media.

[RTH10260]

MTN disects Ivankas case of needing to testify even though dismissed from the case herself.

[RTH10260]

MTN Ben Meiselas discusses deposition of Eric from May 2023, prior to his upcoming testimony.
Mentions the fresh testimony of former T org vice president Raymond Flores. Among other showed MaL as comercial property for taxes, but they showed it off as private property to banks valued around $26 millions.

► Show Spoiler

ETA video link corrected

[neonzx]

MTN Ben Meiselas discusses deposition of Eric from May 2023, prior to his upcoming testimony.
Mentions the fresh testimony of former T org vice president Raymond Flores. Among other showed MaL as comercial property for taxes, but they showed it off as private property to banks valued around $26 millions.

► Show Spoiler

Um no. It's not MTN or Eric. It's some 12 minutes of something way unrelated.

[RTH10260]

Um no. It's not MTN or Eric. It's some 12 minutes of something way unrelated.

Link corrected.

[Kendra]

Big day tomorrow, Junior up first and then Eric. I haz Will the boys be represented and questioned by their own attorneys, or will the questioning be done by tfg's attorneys. Will tfg's attorneys ask lack luster questions to throw the boys under the bus?

[Rolodex]

Big day tomorrow, Junior up first and then Eric. I haz Will the boys be represented and questioned by their own attorneys, or will the questioning be done by tfg's attorneys. Will tfg's attorneys ask lack luster questions to throw the boys under the bus?

Looking forward to reading the live tweets. I think they've long learned the mobspeak and will be oblique in their answers. But Engoron's gag order for trump made it clear he clearly sees "ambiguous language" for what it is. As it's a bench trial perhaps he'll ask them for specific answers if the AG's folks don't get aggressive about it.

[Kendra]

Big day tomorrow, Junior up first and then Eric. I haz Will the boys be represented and questioned by their own attorneys, or will the questioning be done by tfg's attorneys. Will tfg's attorneys ask lack luster questions to throw the boys under the bus?

Looking forward to reading the live tweets. I think they've long learned the mobspeak and will be oblique in their answers. But Engoron's gag order for trump made it clear he clearly sees "ambiguous language" for what it is. As it's a bench trial perhaps he'll ask them for specific answers if the AG's folks don't get aggressive about it.

Any links to live tweets (or whatever they're called now) would be appreciated. Never had a Twitter account, but could follow threads, but since the bastard Elon took over...

[somerset]

Big day tomorrow, Junior up first and then Eric. I haz Will the boys be represented and questioned by their own attorneys, or will the questioning be done by tfg's attorneys. Will tfg's attorneys ask lack luster questions to throw the boys under the bus?

Yes, I also think this will be a defining moment. In his deposition, Eric clearly tries to distance himself from "high level" decisions about appraisals and such, essentially pushing it back up to his Dad (and maybe Beavis). Will they push it back down to Butthead and throw him under the bus? Or will they accept responsibility (yeah, right)? This could be the moment when the Trump Crime Family starts turning on themselves in public

[Rolodex]

Big day tomorrow, Junior up first and then Eric. I haz Will the boys be represented and questioned by their own attorneys, or will the questioning be done by tfg's attorneys. Will tfg's attorneys ask lack luster questions to throw the boys under the bus?

Looking forward to reading the live tweets. I think they've long learned the mobspeak and will be oblique in their answers. But Engoron's gag order for trump made it clear he clearly sees "ambiguous language" for what it is. As it's a bench trial perhaps he'll ask them for specific answers if the AG's folks don't get aggressive about it.

Any links to live tweets (or whatever they're called now) would be appreciated. Never had a Twitter account, but could follow threads, but since the bastard Elon took over...

I follow Adam Klasfeld for live tweeting. But you can catch up on The Messenger. They have great coverage, usually a couple of updates during the day from Klasfeld. https://themessenger.com/politics/trump ... -bills-bid

[MN-Skeptic]

Stewart Bishop live tweeted today's hearing. Make sure you click on "Show replies" when it seems like the tweets are done because the tweet thread is so very long that it doesn't load all the tweets at once.

[NewMexGirl]

It would be so wunderbar if someone who is on XTwitter could utilize the thread reader app and post a link for those of us anxiously awaiting the play-by-play….

I’m channeling Audry in Little Shop these days. Feed me, feed me!

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[MsDaisy 2]

Trump: Judge in fraud trial ‘crazy, totally unhinged, and dangerous’

Former President Trump continued his criticism of the judge overseeing his civil fraud trail in New York on Wednesday, calling him “crazy” and “unhinged.”

Trump attacked Judge Arthur Engoron on decisions made so far in the trial, his judicial track record and for what the former president claimed was a politically motivated attack on him.

“Judge Engoron is a political hack who ruled against me before the trial even started. He is doing the dirty work for the Democrat Party,” Trump wrote on Truth Social, claiming Engoron, “fought us, sanctioned us for no reason, fined us big money, never gave us even a one day delay. This is his big chance, and he was not going to let it go.”

“He fines me at levels never seen before. The A.G.’s people are thrilled, but can’t believe it is happening,” he continued in a second post. “Engoron is crazy, totally unhinged, and dangerous – Our Judicial System has gone to HELL.”

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... -unhinged/

[sugar magnolia]

Fuck you and your stupid gag order, Judge. I do what I want.

[Kendra]

Thanks for the links guys. Now to get my receivables closed so I can go home and read them all

"This Rigged Trial, brought by the Racist New York State A.G. Letitia James before Trump and developer Hating Judge, Arthur Engoron, which should have never been brought in that the so-called STAR WITNESS, SleazeBag Lawyer (for many people) Michael Cohen, admitted last week on the stand that he LIED, and also that your favorite President, Donald J. Trump, or anyone from the Trump Organization, NEVER TOLD HIM TO INFLATE VALUES ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, the opposite of what he told the A.G. in order to get this HOAX started," Trump wrote.

"Therefore, on that fact alone, this Fake Case should be dismissed. Additionally, however, the Financial Statements Values are Conservative (LOW!), Mar-a-Lago is worth MUCH MORE than $18,000,000, there is a 100% Disclaimer Clause on the 1st page of the Statements, the Banks and Insurance Companies were paid in full, no defaults, they all made money, and there is no Victim (except me!).

"Leave my children alone, Engoron. You are a disgrace to the legal profession," he added.

Trump's legal team has been contacted for further comment via email.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... f6b89&ei=9

[somerset]

Thanks for the links guys. Now to get my receivables closed so I can go home and read them all

"Leave my children alone, Engoron. You are a disgrace to the legal profession," he added.

Trump's legal team has been contacted for further comment via email.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... f6b89&ei=9

"How dare you put me in the position where I have to choose between saving my credibility or my children's credibility! Even worse, how dare you put my children in the same position, where they can now try to throw ME under the bus!"

He is seriously terrified of having Uday and Qusay testify. He knows they're not that smart, but they've got the same rutheless survival instincts as he does.