US v. Trump - Espionage Act - (9:23-cr-80101) District Court, S.D. Florida

Kendra · #51

Per CNN, judge rules tfg can't talk to potential witnesses. I believe that includes Nauta.

Maybenaut · #52

Kendra wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:25 pm Per CNN, judge rules tfg can't talk to potential witnesses. I believe that includes Nauta.

I wonder what the actual order was. I doubt the judge could order Trump’s attorney not to talk to potential witnesses. He’s got to be able to mount a defense.

bob · #53

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:43 pm I wonder what the actual order was. I doubt the judge could order Trump’s attorney not to talk to potential witnesses. He’s got to be able to mount a defense.

Concur; ordering the defendant not to do something happens; ordering the defendant's attorney also not to do something would be extraordinary.

Yes, there's the possibility the attorney will act as the defendant's agent, but that (in "usual" circumstances) is extremely rare, as the attorney would be looking at a raft of professional and possibly criminal liability if that happens.

#54

: FyhrSlRXoAEWZEx.jpg (118.62 KiB) Viewed 2958 times

bob · #55

"For completeness": P&E: Trump “Processed,” Will Speak Tuesday Evening:

Through one of his attorneys, Trump, who was wearing a dark suit and classic red tie, entered a plea of “not guilty” and sat at quietly a table “with his hands folded,” [CBS' Scott] MacFarland reported.

You call that a fashion report?

bob · #56

#57

Pathetic.

I think today is actually a tragic day, particularly for our country.

much ado · #58

So what are the chances that an attorney paid (directly or indirectly) by Trump is going to advise his client, Nauta, that it is in Nauta's best interest to flip on Trump?

Just asking...

#59

I listened to ABC reporting. Trump did not enter a plea - a not guilty plea was entered for him, according to the ABC reporter that was in the room. She described Trump as spending a large amount of the time in the courtroom sitting looking at the floor. Gone was his bravado. He basically never looked up until the judge entered the room and then he looked at the judge.

He is not allowed to directly talk to any witnesses. Of course, his attorneys can and will most likely take depositions, but Trump is not allowed to talk to witnesses. He is not allowed to talk to his codefendant, he can only communicate to Nauta via their lawyers. Holy crap.

I was thinking that Trump has no choice but to keep Nauta in his direct sight at all times because if Nauta decides it's in his best interest to take a plea deal (it IS in his best interest, IMO) then Trump is seriously toast. I bet Nauta knows many things that prosecutors don't yet know and may never know unless they get Nauta to flip. Nauta really truly should get his own private attorney that is guaranteed to give him advice that truly is in his own best interest. I hope he has a friend that cares enough about him to tell him to get an attorney that is not connected to Trump world.

#60

much ado wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:58 pm So what are the chances that an attorney paid (directly or indirectly) by Trump is going to advise his client, Nauta, that it is in Nauta's best interest to flip on Trump?

Just asking...

IMO, zero.

#61

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:53 pm Pathetic.

I think today is actually a tragic day, particularly for our country.

While it is satisfying to see an attempt to bring him to justice, it's so disheartening that we have tens of millions of American adults that really believe that it's perfectly OK for someone like Trump to be President. That is one of the problems with all the rhetoric. Calling Clinton a criminal for 40 years makes them think everything Trump does is fine - "they all do it".

No. They don't all do it. Not even close.

Volkonski · #62

Trump didn't enter his own not guilty plea? What a wimp.

Maybenaut · #63

RVInit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:04 pm I listened to ABC reporting. Trump did not enter a plea - a not guilty plea was entered for him, according to the ABC reporter that was in the room. She described Trump as spending a large amount of the time in the courtroom sitting looking at the floor. Gone was his bravado. He basically never looked up until the judge entered the room and then he looked at the judge.

He is not allowed to directly talk to any witnesses. Of course, his attorneys can and will most likely take depositions, but Trump is not allowed to talk to witnesses. He is not allowed to talk to his codefendant, he can only communicate to Nauta via their lawyers. Holy crap.

I was thinking that Trump has no choice but to keep Nauta in his direct sight at all times because if Nauta decides it's in his best interest to take a plea deal (it IS in his best interest, IMO) then Trump is seriously toast. I bet Nauta knows many things that prosecutors don't yet know and may never know unless they get Nauta to flip. Nauta really truly should get his own private attorney that is guaranteed to give him advice that truly is in his own best interest. I hope he has a friend that cares enough about him to tell him to get an attorney that is not connected to Trump world.

Maybe bob or chancery will correct me, but I thought that depositions in criminal trials were the exception rather than the rule, and potential witnesses are deposed only when there is some need to preserve their testimony (like they have a terminal illness, for example), and only by order of the court after a showing of extraordinary circumstances.

The difference between civil and criminal trials has to with due process and the right to confrontation.

#64

Volkonski wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:08 pm Trump didn't enter his own not guilty plea? What a wimp.

I was fascinated by the ABC reporter's information. Apparently, his bravado did not enter the courtroom with him. I suspect that the seriousness of it probably hit him as he sat and stewed. He was brought in 15 minutes before the judge entered. He had to sit there and wait. And then, the judge referred to him as the "former President". Ouch.

Suranis · #65

"On the advice of my lawyer, I'm pleading guilty on all 95 counts, it was all my fault and my boss was totally innocent and manipulated by me into holding all the boxes and hypnotised by my George Kitiara glasses"

Maybenaut · #66

Volkonski wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:08 pm Trump didn't enter his own not guilty plea? What a wimp.

That may be a procedural thing in federal court. In the military, the attorney always enters the plea.

bob · #67

AP:

TRUMP WILL BE RELEASED WITHOUT BOND

Trump will be released without having to pay a bond. He will not have to surrender his passport or restrict his personal travel. As the hearing continued after his not guilty plea was entered, Trump sat at the table scowling with his arms crossed.

* * *

TRUMP RODE TO COURT WITH HIS SON ERIC

Trump rode to court with his son Eric, who accompanied the motorcade from the former president’s Doral resort to the federal courthouse in Miami.

* * *

DEMONSTRATORS FOR AND AGAINST TRUMP SQUABBLING

A small group of pro-Trump supporters and anti-Trump protesters were squabbling in front of Miami’s federal courthouse as they awaited the former president’s appearance Tuesday.

A man with “Trump sucks” spray-painted on his jacket and pants shouted at supporters of the former president as they passed by while a man held a homemade “Free Trump” banner behind others who shouted at him. Dozens of supporters wrapped themselves in Trump flags or campaign merchandise as they milled about near the courthouse.

The crowd included far-right internet personality Anthime Gionet, who served a two-month prison sentence for streaming live video while he stormed the U.S. Capitol with a mob of Trump supporters on Jan. 6, 2021.

Gionet, better known as “Baked Alaska,” was livestreaming video of his interactions with people around the courthouse — something the terms of Gionet’s probation don’t appear to prohibit.

Meanwhile, Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, wearing a T-shirt with a police logo, toured the nearby media encampment and said he didn’t expect any disturbances.

“So far, so good,” Suarez said. “It’s still early, but the crowd seems to be under control and everyone respectful and peaceful. Let’s hope it remains that way.”

Suarez is considering a presidential run and has suggested he could make his intentions known during a speech Thursday at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California.

#68

Note: Tomorrow is T****'s birthday. June 14, 1946

He's at Cuban Cafe Versailles and just had a prayer lead by a Jewish man in a kippah. Reminded me of the SNL Palin sketch where she said:

Moderator Gwen Ifill (played by Queen Latifah): "Gov. Palin, what is your position on health care regulation?"

Palin (played by the doggone-it-she's-totally-adorable Tina Fey): "I'm going to ignore that question and Instead talk about Israel! I love Israel so much, bless its heart. There's a special place for Israel in heaven. And I know some people are going to say I'm only saying that to pander to Florida voters, but from a very young age, my two greatest loves were always Jews and Cuban food.

8:50:

bob · #69

#70

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:13 pm
Maybe bob or chancery will correct me, but I thought that depositions in criminal trials were the exception rather than the rule, and potential witnesses are deposed only when there is some need to preserve their testimony (like they have a terminal illness, for example), and only by order of the court after a showing of extraordinary circumstances.

The difference between civil and criminal trials has to with due process and the right to confrontation.

IANACrL, but I have the same understanding.

One thing that I learned only relatively recently is that criminal defense lawyers hire investigators to interview witnesses, not only for the sake of efficiency, but to avoid the risk of becoming witnesses themselves. Dunno how strictly they isolate themselves from witnesses; I suppose it depends on lots of things.

Uninformed · #71

Is now the right moment to disclose that Nauta is a long-standing FBI CHS?

#72

Frater I*I · #73

bob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:23 pm

Per
@GrahamKates
, who was in the courtroom, Special Counsel Jack Smith closely watched Trump as Trump exited slowly at the end. He watched Trump glance at reporters sitting in the back. Smith never broke his stare at Trump, per Kates.

Apex predators never do, when they have prey in sight....

#74

Seen reporting that the amount of tfg supporters number in the "dozens."

Oliya Scootercaster 🛴 @ScooterCasterNY wrote: Trump GREETING FANS inside and outside of Versailles Restaurant in Miami after his arraignment. #HappeningNow

Video by Oliya Scootercaster Desk@freedomnews.tv to license

They sang him Happy Birthday.

► Show Spoiler

realist · #75

chancery wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:27 pm
Maybenaut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:13 pm
Maybe bob or chancery will correct me, but I thought that depositions in criminal trials were the exception rather than the rule, and potential witnesses are deposed only when there is some need to preserve their testimony (like they have a terminal illness, for example), and only by order of the court after a showing of extraordinary circumstances.

The difference between civil and criminal trials has to with due process and the right to confrontation.
IANACrL, but I have the same understanding.

One thing that I learned only relatively recently is that criminal defense lawyers hire investigators to interview witnesses, not only for the sake of efficiency, but to avoid the risk of becoming witnesses themselves. Dunno how strictly they isolate themselves from witnesses; I suppose it depends on lots of things.

Very common. I've done/seen hundreds of them, if not thousands.

Fogbow