COPS behaving badly

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Kriselda Gray
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COPS behaving badly

#851

Post by Kriselda Gray »

neonzx wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 5:22 pm What "laws" were changed?
FIrst things first. I'm not trying to get you to change your policies. You have reasons for maintaining them, and that's your choice. All I'm trying to do is say that pit bulls - and most other breeds that, at one time or another have had an "aggressive" reputation (i.e. german shepherds, doberman pinschers, rottweilers, etc.) - are not INHERENTLY aggressive.

As for the laws that were changed, most cities or counties have laws regarding what kinds of dogs can live in that area and under what circumstances. Where I live, the law used to be that any dog that "was or appeared to be" a pit bull or pit bull mix (I believe there were a couple other breeds specified as well, but at the time I was looking at it, I was mostly concerned about pit bulls.) Since that time - probably a decade or more ago - the law has been rewritten and doesn't exclude any specific breeds. Instead is based on the dogs behavior. When I was reading about dog laws, I found that many places that used to have breed-specific legislation no longer do because they found it was ineffective at fixing the problem of aggressive dogs, so they started focusing on the dogs themselves and not the breed.

This is from and ASPCA statement about Pit Bulls. The whole thing is quite good as it actually explains some of the genetics and such, but these are the most relevant portions to this conversation. The first part is on pit bulls themselves, and the second is about breed-restrictive laws:
Today’s pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other. These larger, slower bull-baiting dogs were crossed with smaller, quicker terriers to produce a more agile and athletic dog for fighting other dogs.

Some pit bulls were selected and bred for their fighting ability. That means that they may be more likely than other breeds to fight with dogs. It doesn’t mean that they can’t be around other dogs or that they’re unpredictably aggressive. Other pit bulls were specifically bred for work and companionship. These dogs have long been popular family pets, noted for their gentleness, affection and loyalty. And even those pit bulls bred to fight other animals were not prone to aggressiveness toward people. Dogs used for fighting needed to be routinely handled by people; therefore aggression toward people was not tolerated. Any dog that behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Research on pet dogs confirms that dog aggressive dogs are no more likely to direct aggression toward people than dogs that aren’t aggressive to other dogs.

[...]

Laws that ban particular breeds of dogs do not achieve these aims and instead create the illusion, but not the reality, of enhanced public safety. Notably, there are no statewide laws that discriminate based on dog breed, and 18 states have taken the proactive step of expressly banning laws that single out particular breeds for disparate legal treatment. Even the White House has weighed in against laws that target specific breeds. In a a statement issued in 2013, President Obama said “[w]e don’t support breed-specific legislation—research shows that bans on certain types of dogs are largely ineffective and often a waste of public resources. And the simple fact is that dogs of any breed can become dangerous when they’re intentionally or unintentionally raised to be aggressive.”
The whole statement can be found at: https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-po ... -pit-bulls
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#852

Post by Kriselda Gray »

neeneko wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:16 pm
Kriselda Gray wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:47 am Pit bulls aren't automatically aggressive.
Thank you for bringing this up a lot calmer and more eloquently than I was planning to. The whole 'pitbulls are an aggressive breed' meme pisses me off to no end. It is kinda like 'mentally ill people are dangerous', all it does is increase the danger to the subject and excuses violence/policies against them.
Glad to be of help :D
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#853

Post by neonzx »

Kriselda Gray wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:06 pm
neeneko wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:16 pm
Kriselda Gray wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:47 am Pit bulls aren't automatically aggressive.
Thank you for bringing this up a lot calmer and more eloquently than I was planning to. The whole 'pitbulls are an aggressive breed' meme pisses me off to no end. It is kinda like 'mentally ill people are dangerous', all it does is increase the danger to the subject and excuses violence/policies against them.
Glad to be of help :D
neeneko didn't help. I gave you the reasoning for my policy. My properties, my rules. Liability.

Now, if a potential renter adopted a member of the 699th Airborne Division, I wouldn't care at all.
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#854

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

So no chihuauas, cocker spaniels, or jack russells, right?
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#855

Post by Kriselda Gray »

neonzx wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:17 pm
Kriselda Gray wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:06 pm
neeneko wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:16 pm

Thank you for bringing this up a lot calmer and more eloquently than I was planning to. The whole 'pitbulls are an aggressive breed' meme pisses me off to no end. It is kinda like 'mentally ill people are dangerous', all it does is increase the danger to the subject and excuses violence/policies against them.
Glad to be of help :D
neeneko didn't help.
I didn't say she did. She thanked me for my response, and I was teasingly telling HER I was glad to be of "help" TO HER
I gave you the reasoning for my policy. My properties, my rules. Liability.
Which I acknowledged.
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#856

Post by neeneko »

Kriselda Gray wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:04 pm FIrst things first. I'm not trying to get you to change your policies. You have reasons for maintaining them, and that's your choice. All I'm trying to do is say that pit bulls - and most other breeds that, at one time or another have had an "aggressive" reputation (i.e. german shepherds, doberman pinschers, rottweilers, etc.) - are not INHERENTLY aggressive.
See, while I am actually challenging it. One of the biggest reasons pets go to shelters is 'I could not find a landlord who would allow them and given my socioeconomic status I did not have other options', which means a lot of dead animals, in this case based off media hype.

And while it is dogs not people, it still harkens back to all the other media fueled stereotypes that limited housing. Even now I can recall one landlord I used to live across the street from who would not rent to people of colour because 'they are bad tenants.

I doubt I can actually change a mind here, but neonzx, please stop and reflect on where you get your ideas and how valid they are. Pets are destroyed over this kind of stuff, so it isn't quite as simple as 'I have power, so it is mine to use and that is the only ethical consideration'.
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#857

Post by sugar magnolia »

neeneko wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:09 am
Kriselda Gray wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:04 pm FIrst things first. I'm not trying to get you to change your policies. You have reasons for maintaining them, and that's your choice. All I'm trying to do is say that pit bulls - and most other breeds that, at one time or another have had an "aggressive" reputation (i.e. german shepherds, doberman pinschers, rottweilers, etc.) - are not INHERENTLY aggressive.
See, while I am actually challenging it. One of the biggest reasons pets go to shelters is 'I could not find a landlord who would allow them and given my socioeconomic status I did not have other options', which means a lot of dead animals, in this case based off media hype.

And while it is dogs not people, it still harkens back to all the other media fueled stereotypes that limited housing. Even now I can recall one landlord I used to live across the street from who would not rent to people of colour because 'they are bad tenants.

I doubt I can actually change a mind here, but neonzx, please stop and reflect on where you get your ideas and how valid they are. Pets are destroyed over this kind of stuff, so it isn't quite as simple as 'I have power, so it is mine to use and that is the only ethical consideration'.
We don't allow dogs, cats, smokers or children in our units and there is nothing immoral or unethical about it. They know before moving in what the rules are.
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#858

Post by pipistrelle »

Former photographer Hannah Stonehouse Hudson's adopted pit bulls. It's the owner, not the dog.
2023-04-24 07.53.35.png
2023-04-24 07.53.35.png (407.93 KiB) Viewed 1358 times
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#859

Post by neeneko »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:13 am We don't allow dogs, cats, smokers or children in our units and there is nothing immoral or unethical about it. They know before moving in what the rules are.
No drop believes it is responsible for the flood. When such rules are pervasive, they stop being personal preferences and start becoming a systemic power imbalance issue. Sure they can go to another landlord, but that one has the same rules, and the next, and the next, and the next. Rental heavy areas are depressing dumping zones for pets since eventually people have to choose between getting that housing or not. This is why there ended up being public accommodation laws so you couldn't do things like "I will not rent to black people!", but they really only cover the most bare bones of patterns.
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#860

Post by sugar magnolia »

neeneko wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:49 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:13 am We don't allow dogs, cats, smokers or children in our units and there is nothing immoral or unethical about it. They know before moving in what the rules are.
No drop believes it is responsible for the flood. When such rules are pervasive, they stop being personal preferences and start becoming a systemic power imbalance issue. Sure they can go to another landlord, but that one has the same rules, and the next, and the next, and the next. Rental heavy areas are depressing dumping zones for pets since eventually people have to choose between getting that housing or not. This is why there ended up being public accommodation laws so you couldn't do things like "I will not rent to black people!", but they really only cover the most bare bones of patterns.
You obviously have no rental properties. You're also ignoring the public accommodation laws that say you can't rent to anyone who has more than 2 kids per bedroom, or that you can't call it a bedroom unless it has a window.

We'd be happy to rent to anyone with pets if they were willing to pay the difference in our insurance rates, and cover the costs of having wood floors refinished and pissed on walls disinfected.
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#861

Post by RTH10260 »

'Heinous' Killing of Snakes Puts Spotlight on Florida Wildlife Officers

BY ANNA SKINNER
ON 4/12/23 AT 1:47 PM EDT
  • Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officers euthanized 35 snakes, mistakenly killing a pregnant boa constrictor worth $100,000.
    The action has brought criticism from a reptile advocacy group, the United States Association of Reptile Keepers, which called the action "heinous."
    A graphic video shows some of the snakes, including the boa, writhing after they were shot with a bolt gun.
After Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) officers euthanized 35 snakes last week, a disturbing video of their action has led to criticism of government officials from a reptile advocacy group and the snakes' owners.

FWC officers are authorized to euthanize wild reticulated and Burmese pythons, a species that was prohibited in Florida in 2021 because of its invasive nature. But when they conducted an April 6 raid on a reptile facility in Sunrise, Florida, they mistakenly killed a pregnant boa constrictor that was worth $100,000, along with 34 captive pythons. The mistake, as well as the method of killing the reptiles, has brought criticism from a reptile advocacy group, the United States Association of Reptile Keepers (USARK).

'Heinous' Killing of Snakes in Florida

A professional python hunter hired by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission catches a Burmese python in the Everglades on August 11, 2022. When Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officers euthanized 35 captive snakes last week, they mistakenly killed a pregnant boa constrictor.

USARK's Florida branch has been involved in a lawsuit with the FWC for the past year and a half, challenging the commission's authority to euthanize captive animals. The recent snake deaths have put the FWC back in the spotlight, with USARK Florida Media Director Daniel Parker calling the action "heinous."

"It's horrifically sad," Parker told Newsweek. "The Florida state constitution gives FWC authority over wild animal life, and we don't believe they should have any power to do this to somebody's pet animals."

An FWC spokesperson told Newsweek that Bill McAdam, the Sunrise facility's owner, relinquished the snakes to that FWC and requested the FWC officers euthanize the pythons. But Parker said that can't be true because McAdam wasn't on the scene.

"Information also indicates that the owner specifically requested that the FWC officers and investigators conduct those euthanasia activities on-site at his facility," the FWC spokesperson said.

"The FWC Division of Law Enforcement is determining the full details of this incident, and more information will be released when it is verified and appropriate to do so. Assembling the information and records required to provide a clear picture to the public on the facts of this incident may take time, but the FWC is committed to providing factual information when it becomes available," the spokesperson said.

A 2021 Change in Florida Law

Officers euthanized the pythons at the facility in Sunrise after battling legally with snake breeder Chris Coffee, who legally owned more than 120 pythons before a 2021 Florida law made ownership illegal. Before the law's passage, Coffee had obtained a special permit to keep and sell the snakes.

After the law passed, the FWC gave Coffee five months to find a new home for the pythons. At the end of that time, Coffee still possessed more than 30 of them, and officers gave Coffee an ultimatum: Either allow them to euthanize the snakes or he would go to jail. Coffee gave the officers permission to euthanize the pythons, but he warned them not to kill a pregnant boa constrictor kept in the same area, which is legal in Florida. The boa was owned by McAdam.

Officers then began euthanizing the pythons, which was filmed by Coffee on his phone after he left the room. Several minutes into the video, which was posted on YouTube by USARK Florida, officers pulled the pregnant boa out of her cage and killed her as well. The snake writhed in the background as the officers looked at one another, one with his hands on his head in apparent shock, when they realized they had killed the wrong snake.

Coffee is off-screen during the video, but he can be heard reacting to the devastating news when officers tell him they killed the boa constrictor, which McAdam had owned for 11 years and named Big Shirl.

"No!" Coffee yelled. "What is wrong with you guys? Who did it?"

An officer then asks Coffee if there's a way to save the snake's 32 babies, which The Miami Herald reported were only a month away from being born. Coffee said the babies couldn't be saved.

The officers told Coffee that they made a mistake when they killed the boa, to which Coffee responded incredulously. "How?" he yelled. "I reminded you 10 times! You just killed something that wasn't illegal, and it had about $100,000 worth of f****** babies!"

Coffee told Miami TV station WTVJ that he still can't watch the video of the snakes being killed.

The FWC's website says it uses a device that shoots a bolt into the snake's brain, thus "humanely" killing the reptile. The website instructs officers to follow a two-step process. The first step renders the reptile unconscious, while the second destroys its brain.

But according to Coffee, the entire process was inhumane. At the start of the video, the officer administering the bolt admits he's handled only one python in the past. Another officer asks if he needs to "practice" the fatal maneuver, to which a third officer said, "He doesn't need to practice."

"I'm not a veterinarian, but I don't know how anyone looking at that video could call that humane," Parker told Newsweek. "For people who keep snakes as pets, we love these animals just as people love their dogs and cats. Substitute your puppy or kitty getting killed by a bolt gun by government officers, and you'll have the feeling we have right now."




https://www.newsweek.com/heinous-killin ... rs-1794017
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#862

Post by RTH10260 »

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#863

Post by Ben-Prime »

RTH10260 wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:32 am
My condo is a few miles away from this, as is my brother's home. If I know the area, there will still be some local stink about this when I make my final departure from London and arrive home in Florida for my home leave in about 3 weeks. If there's anything happening about it during my 5 weeks home before my next assignment, I'll advise.

My family takes this stuff seriously. My oldest niece is an avid hunter who until she became a mama last year, took part in the python culling. She's since moved to the Lakeland area, but she'd be livid about this. I'm sure I'll get an earful when she comes to bring my grand-nephew to meet me.
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#864

Post by poplove »

West Virginia State Police Investigation: Lawyer says additional allegations of abuse, sexual misconduct ‘much worse’

https://www.wowktv.com/news/west-virgin ... uch-worse/

:snippity:
A group of women have already come forward wanting to know if they were filmed while using the locker room at the West Virginia State Police Academy. Toriseva filed an intent of notice to sue on their behalf in late March. In early April, she filed a second notice after it became known that minors may have been filmed on the hidden camera in the locker room.
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#865

Post by RTH10260 »

it's different if you are a police officer - see similar incident quoted

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#866

Post by raison de arizona »

A course on the constitutionality of giving cops the middle finger.
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#867

Post by Suranis »

Like a lot of things, it might be constitutional, but its definitely unwise. It certainly encourages the Cop to run your licence plate, for example, which is not against the constitution either. And he might suddenly constitutionally notice you are not wearing your seatbelt, constitutionally.
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#868

Post by Foggy »

My wife has always been amazed at the number of times I have been pulled over by a cop and schmoozed my way out of a ticket. That doesn't happen if you give the cop the finger. I always assume that the cop is a decent human being, doing a damned difficult job to the best of his or her abilities, and I further assume that if we had any chance at all, we'd become friends on an accelerated basis. I keep my hands where they are clearly visible, and I smile a lot, and I cooperate with anything they say.

And, y'know, I was an attorney and I know my rights fairly well, but when you are talking to a cop who pulled you over, you're not in court and it doesn't pay to be aggressive, like giving the cop the finger. I am certain that I have never told a cop, in all my years in SoCal, that I was an attorney. Why would I say something to antagonize the cop?

I was given field sobriety tests on the side of the road on three, count 'em, three separate occasions, and I was drunk every time, but I was such a nice, cooperative, helpful, honest, just generally friendly guy that I never did get arrested for DUI.

That's my take on the constitutionality of giving cops the finger. :doh:
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#869

Post by raison de arizona »

Once in Brooklyn an unmarked cop car cut me off and made me seriously eat my brakes to avoid an accident. I had my kids in the car at the time. They looped around and lit me up, pulling me over on the next block. I was too damn busy trying to avoid an accident to have done anything else, but for some reason they were convinced I had given them the finger. They yanked me out of the car and I seriously thought they were going to beat my ass. In front of the kids. I managed to stay calm and tell them over and over that I didn't give them the finger, and that I thought their driving was exemplary until they decided that beating my ass was unnecessary and instead just yelled at me for ten minutes before letting me go with a warning. A warning for what? I dunno, but I wasn't about to ask. NYPD is famous for busting people for nothing just to jack up their lives for a couple days in the clink waiting for a hearing that will undoubtedly kick them free since they didn't really do anything. Anyway. I don't give anyone the finger. Especially around here in AZ where everyone is packing and just looking for a reason to plug you. It's just not worth it.
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#870

Post by Patagoniagirl »

This all makes me sick. More than likely not many of us FBowzer women have had encounters like some in the thread. I've had one.encounter that was aggressive but represented myself in court and won. The other encounter is something I have never, and never will talk about. Some of these officers are simply fucking thugs and should never be allowed to have a gun, taxer or police vehicle. Back the Blue? Not until they start weeding out, firing and prosecuting these angry, power-hungry (and dangerous) assholes.
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#871

Post by neonzx »

Patagoniagirl wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:02 pm This all makes me sick. More than likely not many of us FBowzer women have had encounters like some in the thread. I've had one.encounter that was aggressive but represented myself in court and won. The other encounter is something I have never, and never will talk about. Some of these officers are simply fucking thugs and should never be allowed to have a gun, taxer or police vehicle. Back the Blue? Not until they start weeding out, firing and prosecuting these angry, power-hungry (and dangerous) assholes.
You are so so RIGHT on that, Patagoniagirl. I don't think the departments do effective psych screening for their applicants. Many unfit for a badge and gun. Maybe they were bullies as young teens or maybe they were victims of bullying.

I recently had to calling a non 911 report of someone had broken into one of my vacant condos. Two responding officers, which is normal here. The female officer was very helpful and professional. The male officer was pretty much a dick. Now I am not a dick in person at all and give all respect but that guy wanted to exercise his authority.

Another time, perhaps 7 years ago, I was foot stopped in my own Condo community. It was a single officer with a tiny penlight came up behind me. He was grilling me and I was being cooperative. He said there was a report of someone peeping in windows, which immediately concerned me and I told him I would help look for the perp. When he asked where I lived and I told him and also told him I owned and managed a number of other Condos there. HE FUCKING SMIRKED. And said something like "so if we go back to my prowler, I can check?" (they have computers in their vehicles). Anyway, after finally accepting my offered ID, and got back over the radio "No wants, No warrants." He turned and walked away. No "Sorry" No "Have a good evening" Nothing. Cops can be major pricks.
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#872

Post by raison de arizona »

Once I got pulled over for speeding (guilty) in the middle of the night on a AZ freeway. I had a knife that had been really tight when I bought it with no adjustment to loosen it. So I got in the habit of opening and closing it over and over to loosen it up. It loosened up, but I was still in the habit of flicking it open and closed. The cop asked if I had any weapons, to which I answered yeah, a knife here in the door of the car. He wanted to see it, and when I showed it to him, he said, Ok, that's fine, you can hold onto it. Unbeknownst to myself, I started unconsciously flicking it open and closed while talking to him. Doh! He says, On second thought, let me hold onto that. Yes sir! He goes back to his cruiser, runs me and car and everything, no priors, no nothing. So he comes back up to the car, and what is he doing? Flicking the damn knife open and closed! I told him, Addicting, isn't it! We laughed. He let me off with a warning and gave me my knife back. He was a pretty cool guy.

We concentrate on the bad here, but for every bad cop there are multiple good ones in my experience. Those aren't the ones that I typically recall though.
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#873

Post by Jim »

neonzx wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:59 pmCops can be major pricks.
And dealing with the public can be a major pain-in-the-ass and cops are human too.
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#874

Post by AndyinPA »

Training in this country compared to what I know in general terms in Europe can be pathetic.
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#875

Post by raison de arizona »

AndyinPA wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 4:11 pm Training in this country compared to what I know in general terms in Europe can be pathetic.
Hairdressers and massage techs literally have much more training than cops in the US. It's scary.
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