Still not 'duly elected' Arizona Governor -- Kari Lake, TFG Endorsee

[Slim Cognito]

A miscarriage IS an abortion. SCIENTIFICALLY/MEDICALLY it is a spontaneous abortion. A therapeutic abortion is an elective abortion. I've got 30 years experience creating these medical records.

MERRIAM WEBSTER
SINCE 1828


spontaneous abortion noun

Medical Definition of spontaneous abortion
: naturally occurring expulsion of a nonviable fetus

https://www.merriam-webster.com/medical ... 20abortion

[raison de arizona]

I thought no what Hobbs said is increday stupid. It's like saying you should ban legitimate arsenic treatment because arsenic is sometimes used to kill people.

I know you are reflexedly going to the opposition to the lunatic, but the lunatic is right. Conflating a misscarraiges with abortions WILL get women killed, as the regulations for one will start affecting the other.

Hell Huminae Vitae said that you could use contraception to treat medical issues, as long as the intention was not birth control.

Hobbs statement is typical of the pig ignorant crap I have seen in the last few months. No a miscarriage is not an abortion, despite unscientific people trying to make them the same to create falsemoral dillemas

The measures Lake supports would criminalize a D&C in Hobbs' situation in AZ. She would have to take an emergency trip to NM or CA to get the health care she needed. There is nothing wrong with Hobbs' statement.

[Suranis]

A miscarriage IS an abortion. SCIENTIFICALLY/MEDICALLY it is a spontaneous abortion. A therapeutic abortion is an elective abortion. I've got 30 years experience creating these medical records.

MERRIAM WEBSTER
SINCE 1828


spontaneous abortion noun

Medical Definition of spontaneous abortion
: naturally occurring expulsion of a nonviable fetus

https://www.merriam-webster.com/medical ... 20abortion

Eff off with that shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus.[nb 1] An abortion that occurs without intervention is known as a miscarriage or "spontaneous abortion"; these occur in approximately 30% to 40% of pregnancies.[2][3] When deliberate steps are taken to end a pregnancy, it is called an induced abortion, or less frequently "induced miscarriage". The unmodified word abortion generally refers to an induced abortion

You know damn well that when anyone says "abortion" they are not talking about a Miscarriage. Don't pull the "Oh TECHNICALLY" with me. And changing the definition of Common Parlance is what cults do. If you said to someone in the middle of a miscarriage that they are having an abortion you will get punched.

Besides its exactly the same crap that Gunhumpers pull to show the opposition does not know anythng about guns "Well technically tan ar-15 isn't an assault rifle because that does not exist so therefore assault weapon bans are unnecessary becasue you dont understand GYuns."

[Slim Cognito]

I posted the fucking definition per Merriam Webster but I'm wrong?

You know damn well you're trying to redefine a word because its actual meaning doesn't fit your narrative. So just eff off.

[Suranis]

The measures Lake supports would criminalize a D&C in Hobbs' situation in AZ.

How?

That's is a flat statement that demands proof.

Or is it just because "Mwah a miscarriage is an abortion therefore banning abortion will make miscarriage illeeeegal therefore treating miscarriage will be illeeegal because mwah putrid ponies and moonbeams mwah." Because quite frankly I think that's the actual reason.

[raison de arizona]

The measures Lake supports would criminalize a D&C in Hobbs' situation in AZ.

How?

That's is a flat statement that demands proof.

Or is it just because "Mwah a miscarriage is an abortion therefore banning abortion will make miscarriage illeeeegal therefore treating miscarriage will be illeeegal because mwah putrid ponies and moonbeams mwah." Because quite frankly I think that's the actual reason.

13-3603. Definition; punishment

A person who provides, supplies or administers to a pregnant woman, or procures such woman to take any medicine, drugs or substance, or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever, with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of such woman, unless it is necessary to save her life, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two years nor more than five years.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03603.htm

Eh, you're nasty about it, but you have an actual point I will acknowledge. The problem here is that clinics and doctors believe this statute to be not clear enough in a situation such as Hobbs', and as such are declining to provide D&C services and sending them to CA or NM. I don't want to get totally into the weeds here other than to say that if the law is not clear enough that doctors feel comfortable with providing services in a situation such as Hobbs' without fearing prison, which they don't, then the law needs to be clearer. I.e., does one have to wait until the mother is truly in a life threatening emergency before providing services, or is the fact that she will EVENTUALLY be enough? Doctors here are taking the former position, since their freedom from criminal prosecution rides on it.

As far as Lake, she has repeatedly called abortion "the ultimate sin" and stated that she will enforce a ban on all. Dunno. But that's about all I have to say about that!

[Foggy]

!	Message from: Foggy
	We have a rule now.

... and I'm as angry as I can be. I never thought a miscarriage would be a political issue or cause strife at Fogbow.

The Kari Lakes of the world are a pestilence.

[sugar magnolia]

I posted the fucking definition per Merriam Webster but I'm wrong?

You know damn well you're trying to redefine a word because its actual meaning doesn't fit your narrative. So just eff off.

Speaking of cults......

[raison de arizona]

BREAKING

Katie Hobbs hoped no one would find this out…

She wants to purge the Pledge, Anthem & Constitution from our schools

Let’s purge @katiehobbs from Arizona Politics on November 8th.

SHARE & RT!

[Foggy]

Oh, dear.

[tek]

Not clicking.
What is she babbling about?

[raison de arizona]

She claims Hobbs wants to outlaw the pledge of allegiance, and replace it with sex ed for five year olds.

[Suranis]

13-3603. Definition; punishment

A person who provides, supplies or administers to a pregnant woman, or procures such woman to take any medicine, drugs or substance, or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever, with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of such woman, unless it is necessary to save her life, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two years nor more than five years.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03603.htm

Eh, you're nasty about it, but you have an actual point I will acknowledge. The problem here is that clinics and doctors believe this statute to be not clear enough in a situation such as Hobbs', and as such are declining to provide D&C services and sending them to CA or NM. I don't want to get totally into the weeds here other than to say that if the law is not clear enough that doctors feel comfortable with providing services in a situation such as Hobbs' without fearing prison, which they don't, then the law needs to be clearer. I.e., does one have to wait until the mother is truly in a life threatening emergency before providing services, or is the fact that she will EVENTUALLY be enough? Doctors here are taking the former position, since their freedom from criminal prosecution rides on it.

As far as Lake, she has repeatedly called abortion "the ultimate sin" and stated that she will enforce a ban on all. Dunno. But that's about all I have to say about that!

Ok thanks for the reply. Sorry that I was nasty but I was pretty pissed off and I'm not at my best these weeks, to put it mildly.

Ya, I agree that wording is peculiar. I would have thought something like "induced abortion" would be far more clear, rather than working from the word "miscarriage" backwards. A word which, as I have said, is not actually about induced abortion in common or medical parlance.

Honestly it reads like a law built to fail challenges to me. But it SEEMS to do stuff.

[realist]

I thought no what Hobbs said is increday stupid. It's like saying you should ban legitimate arsenic treatment because arsenic is sometimes used to kill people.

I know you are reflexedly going to the opposition to the lunatic, but the lunatic is right. Conflating a misscarraiges with abortions WILL get women killed, as the regulations for one will start affecting the other.

Hell Huminae Vitae said that you could use contraception to treat medical issues, as long as the intention was not birth control.

Hobbs statement is typical of the pig ignorant crap I have seen in the last few months. No a miscarriage is not an abortion, despite unscientific people trying to make them the same to create falsemoral dillemas

I don't see where she did anything of the sort. She clearly separated out the miscarriage and the (likely) D&C. She's further pointing out that a D&C (again the likely procedure) is the same treatment used in abortions and is common and should not be criminalized.

That said, it's disgusting to use a miscarriage as a political issue. By either one of them. Or anyone.

[Suranis]

That said, it's disgusting to use a miscarriage as a political issue. By either one of them. Or anyone.

We can all agree on that.

[Slim Cognito]

FYI, if a doctor in, say, Texas gets sued over a D&C, the medical records/procedure report will be introduced at trial and the final diagnosis will not state "miscarriage." It will say "spontaneous abortion," and the doctor will lose. It matters not what the man on the street calls it.

[sugar magnolia]

FYI, if a doctor in, say, Texas gets sued over a D&C, the medical records/procedure report will be introduced at trial and the final diagnosis will not state "miscarriage." It will say "spontaneous abortion," and the doctor will lose. It matters not what the man on the street calls it.

A lot of what men say about women's health matters not.

[raison de arizona]

Kari Lake’s claims against opponent Katie Hobbs proved false

Kari Lake, the Republican gubernatorial nominee, took to social media this week, baiting the promise of a political bombshell against Democrat opponent Katie Hobbs. Now, the bombshell is blowing up and sparking new questions.

Lake hurled accusations at Hobbs in a 3-minute video posted on Twitter on Tuesday afternoon. “In Hobbs’ Arizona, your kindergartner wouldn’t learn the Pledge of Allegiance,” said Lake. “As a legislator, Hobbs actually voted to block the Pledge of Allegiance, our national anthem, our Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and even the Mayflower Compact from being taught to the next generation of Americans right here in Arizona.”

To back up Lake’s shocking allegations, the video showed a bill that Hobbs voted against four years ago. However, the bombshell Lake promised was proved to be incorrect. “Voting against this bill would not be voting against the national anthem,” said Wes Gullett, former chief of staff to previous Arizona Republican governor Fife Symington.

Gullett points out the bill Lake refers to only covered adding the state motto, “Ditat Deus,” which means “God Enriches,” and the national motto of “In God We Trust.” It would not have purged anything from the approved list of materials that could be read and posted in Arizona classrooms. The claim has led to speculation, with some saying Lake doesn’t understand how laws are created. “That’s why we have campaigns because we see if people are qualified to be governor. Reading bills is a qualification of being governor. You have to know what a bills says, how a bill changes, how a bill becomes a law. Those are fundementals that Kari Lake doesn’t understand,” said Gullett.

On Wednesday, Lake doubled down on Twitter, referring to a pair of other bills she claims supports her accusation. However, those bills don’t refer to the Pledge of Allegiance or any founding document. In the video, Lake also claimed Hobbs supported sex education being taught to kindergartners. In the 2016 legislative session, Hobbs did sponsor legislation that would have required medically accurate and age-appropriate sex education in K-12 Arizona schools.

https://www.azfamily.com/2022/09/22/kar ... ved-false/

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

I've mentioned this before, but my grandmother was denied an abortion back in the early 1950s under Michigan's 1931 law, which is similar. The fetus died of an infection, then went septic in her womb. The sepsis scarred her uterus so badly that she was rendered barren, but never got into her blood, so the procedure wasn't permitted as her life wasn't in danger. At least three other Fogbowzers have close family members with similar experiences pre-Roe. This was two decades before RvW, and despite being a known issue, the laws were never changed or clarified. People were denied abortions of their miscarriages right into the 70s under these laws.

[raison de arizona]

This was two decades before RvW, and despite being a known issue, the laws were never changed or clarified. People were denied abortions of their miscarriages right into the 70s under these laws.

FWIW we're dealing with >100-year old abortion laws in AZ that are suddenly back in effect. Maybe. *sounds of court battles ensue* So, yeah.

[raison de arizona]

[Foggy]

An excellent message for those who are mentally incapable of distinguishing between the Israeli government and Jews in general.

'Course, it's not so much aimed at people like me, I've known several Jews who didn't agree 100% with the actions of the Israeli government.

[Ben-Prime]

An excellent message for those who are mentally incapable of distinguishing between the Israeli government and Jews in general.

'Course, it's not so much aimed at people like me, I've known several Jews who didn't agree 100% with the actions of the Israeli government.

[raison de arizona]

AZ became a state February 14, 1912, this law is from the territorial days. There is also one even older from pre-territorial days that may come into play as well.

The 1901 abortion law that Kari Lake supports makes police officers responsible for arresting doctors & nurses. Take it from Sheriff Nanos: that is a waste of resources. Law enforcement should be spending their time protecting our communities.

[raison de arizona]

She's learned from the best. Just make shit up. Or she really is that dense. Hard to say.

Today's news includes a tutorial for @KariLake on how to read a bill. "What's proposed is what you see in upper case and blue." #AZGov

Bonus help from Katie Hobbs:

► Show Spoiler