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School related violence

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raison de arizona
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School related violence

#901

Post by raison de arizona »

K-12 School Shooting Database @K12ssdb wrote: St. Louis PD found a note in the car saying: “I don’t have any friends I don’t have any family, I’ve never had a girlfriend, I’ve never had a social life, I’ve been an isolated loner my entire this. This was the perfect storm for a mass shooting.”
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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School related violence

#902

Post by Dave from down under »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-26/ ... /101577966
-------------
The school was locked, with seven security guards at the doors, St Louis Schools Superintendent Kelvin Adams said.

A security guard initially became alarmed when he saw the shooter trying to get in one of the doors.

Commissioner Sack said the man was armed with a gun and "there was no mystery about what was going to happen".

"He had it out and entered in an aggressive, violent manner," Commissioner Sack said.

The guard alerted school officials and police were contacted.
-------------

Noting that the security guard didn't prevent entry.. presumably he was a good guy with a gun.. yet that didn't stop a bad guy with a gun... it's almost as if that brain fart is a fallacy :shrug:
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raison de arizona
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School related violence

#903

Post by raison de arizona »

Police were alerted to an issue with the shooter a week in advance of the shooting, but there was nothing they legally could do until he began killing.
K-12 School Shooting Database @K12ssdb wrote: Police can only stop mass shootings if they have the legal tools to do so.

St. Louis school shooter's mother found the rifle and called police on Oct. 15 (9 days before). Police determined it was legally owned and could not be seized under Missouri law.

This was preventable.
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“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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School related violence

#904

Post by AndyinPA »

Sad and infuriating at the same time.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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School related violence

#905

Post by Dave from down under »

AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:14 pm Sad and infuriating at the same time.
And predicted..
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School related violence

#906

Post by Kriselda Gray »

AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:14 pm Sad and infuriating at the same time.
Extremely infuriating. And not just the part about his mother trying to have law enforcement stop him, but also because aren't security guards and locked doors supposed to keep kids safe according to the gun nuts? Yet even with 7 guards - including one who saw him trying to get in - and locked doors they still couldn't prevent it.

This just quite simply should not have happened.
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School related violence

#907

Post by RTH10260 »

article on child identification program - please read - quoting no good
My Child Brought Home This Horrifying Pamphlet From School. I'm Furious — And You Should Be Too.
Joanna McFarland Owusu
Fri, October 28, 2022 at 2:30 PM·


https://www.yahoo.com/news/child-brough ... 10060.html
(original HuffPost)
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School related violence

#908

Post by AndyinPA »

Sad and infuriating.

Something I've said on here a couple of times here lately, :mad:
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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School related violence

#909

Post by Dave from down under »

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-02/ ... /101604716

Families of victims of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School school shooter Nikolas Cruz unleash in courtroom statements

Families of the 17 children and staff members Parkland school shooter Nikolas Cruz murdered have cursed him to hell, wished him a painful death and called him a coward as they got their one chance to address him directly before he is sentenced to life in prison.

Key points:
Cruz showed no emotion as the families addressed the court
Some of the families verbally attacked Cruz's public defenders, who asked the judge to intervene
During the trial, prosecutors said Cruz fired 140 shots with an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle
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School related violence

#910

Post by raison de arizona »

The families didn’t just attack the public defenders, they attacked the public defenders’ children.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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School related violence

#911

Post by Frater I*I »

raison de arizona wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:34 pm The families didn’t just attack the public defenders, they attacked the public defenders’ children.
They crossed the line at attacking the PDs, let alone their families.

One of the great things of our republic is that everyone, EVERYONE! Regardless of how guilty they are, deserves competent defense counsel...I understand their grief, but they should understand such...
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see, He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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School related violence

#912

Post by Dave from down under »

:yeahthat:
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School related violence

#913

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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School related violence

#914

Post by raison de arizona »

Heartbreaking. "I know how to handle these situations. My dad taught me when I was a little girl." She's ten.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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School related violence

#915

Post by Dave from down under »

:crying: :brokenheart:

Our 10 year olds are taught how to swim and cross the road safely...

Our nations last school shooting was... at Modbury High School in Adelaide on May 7, 2012. No one was injured.
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School related violence

#916

Post by raison de arizona »

Frater I*I wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:56 pm
raison de arizona wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:34 pm The families didn’t just attack the public defenders, they attacked the public defenders’ children.
They crossed the line at attacking the PDs, let alone their families.

One of the great things of our republic is that everyone, EVERYONE! Regardless of how guilty they are, deserves competent defense counsel...I understand their grief, but they should understand such...
Need more clips, sounds like there is more to the story.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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School related violence

#917

Post by RVInit »

raison de arizona wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:34 pm The families didn’t just attack the public defenders, they attacked the public defenders’ children.
The judge has behaved unprofessionally throughout the trial and has pretty clearly put her fist on the whole process, even before they started jury selection. I even have wondered if a couple of the jurors simply refused to give him the death penalty because of sitting there watchin a judge do everything she could to harm the defense. It doesn't surprise me the witness impact statements would turn into a shit show, the whole trial, thanks to judge AssHole was a shit show. I quit watching it early on but it was going south very early and I've watched some of the "Lawyer You Know" wraps ups on it, and the consensus among lawyers seemed to agree she was either over her head or just way too emotionally wrapped up in the case. She was unable to run a fair death penalty trial for sure.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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School related violence

#918

Post by RVInit »

raison de arizona wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:59 am
Frater I*I wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:56 pm
raison de arizona wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:34 pm The families didn’t just attack the public defenders, they attacked the public defenders’ children.
They crossed the line at attacking the PDs, let alone their families.

One of the great things of our republic is that everyone, EVERYONE! Regardless of how guilty they are, deserves competent defense counsel...I understand their grief, but they should understand such...
Need more clips, sounds like there is more to the story.
This is a very small piece of what went on. Yes, that defense attorney was way way way way way out of line to give the finger. I would suggest before anyone decides that the defense was completely responsible for the breakdown of professionalism, maybe you should watch some of the trial right from the beginning. It was the judge that set the tone and behaved in such a completely unprofessional manner that the whole freaking trial became a curcus of bad behavior. And sadly, most of it was not actually the defense attorneys who were acting badly. The bad behavior was mostly the judge herself, the prosecution team then took advantage of it and started their own BS, then the defense finally broke down and you see one of the defense lawyers give the finger. And that's pretty much because the defense at that point, no matter how reasonably they argued anything throughout the case, the judge just assumed that nobody would mind if she shut them down, because, hey, we're going to put this guy on death row anyway. Which the jury declined. And again, I have some suspicion some of them may have declined because of watching the defense get constantly steamrolled by a judge hellbent on not allowing the defense a fair trial.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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School related violence

#919

Post by RVInit »

Here is some of the larger picture of what happened during the victim impact statements. Peter Tragos is one of the lawyers from the Lawyer You Know YouTube channel. That channel was his idea and mainly his "baby", but some of the other attorneys at his firm also make videos about cases. One of them gives updates about the Theranos cases.

This video starts near the beginning of the attorneys trying to discuss the witness impact statements where many of the victims were bringing up the children of defense attorneys. These attorneys were assigned to Cruz, they are public defenders.

Edit - sorry I took the time off the end of the link because I think originally I had it starting too late. You can go about 7 minutes into the video to skip to the beginning of the actual discussion of what happened during victim impact statements and how it went south when defense attorneys attempted to get the judge to ask the families to avoid talking about defense attorney's children.

There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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#920

Post by neonzx »

RVInit wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:05 am Here is some of the larger picture of what happened during the victim impact statements. Peter Tragos is one of the lawyers from the Lawyer You Know YouTube channel. That channel was his idea and mainly his "baby", but some of the other attorneys at his firm also make videos about cases. One of them gives updates about the Theranos cases.

This video starts near the beginning of the attorneys trying to discuss the witness impact statements where many of the victims were bringing up the children of defense attorneys. These attorneys were assigned to Cruz, they are public defenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZo1qoDsf8w&t=1485s
Is the raw footage out there somewhere on the tubes? I don't need commentary from a third party interrupting. It's why I stopped watching MSNBC and their commenters. Give me the raw footage -- i can digest it myself without assistance -- it is obviously available somewhere.
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#921

Post by RVInit »

neonzx wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:08 am
RVInit wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:05 am Here is some of the larger picture of what happened during the victim impact statements. Peter Tragos is one of the lawyers from the Lawyer You Know YouTube channel. That channel was his idea and mainly his "baby", but some of the other attorneys at his firm also make videos about cases. One of them gives updates about the Theranos cases.

This video starts near the beginning of the attorneys trying to discuss the witness impact statements where many of the victims were bringing up the children of defense attorneys. These attorneys were assigned to Cruz, they are public defenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZo1qoDsf8w&t=1485s
Is the raw footage out there somewhere on the tubes? I don't need commentary from a third party interrupting. It's why I stopped watching MSNBC and their commenters. Give me the raw footage -- i can digest it myself without assistance -- it is obviously available somewhere.
Yes, you can search YouTube for raw footage. The one I posted above does contain the raw footage, but it is interrupted by discussion about it. But the footage itself is not edited in any way, it's just interrupted from time to time with the host making his comments and reaction to it. At the 7 minute mark or shortly after is when they start discussing the issue about victim impact statements. If you search other sources I wouldn't know where to start any of those videos, they are all 8 hours long and I'm not sure what time of day these discussions between judge and attorneys happened.
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#922

Post by AndyinPA »

Cause for appeal?
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#923

Post by neonzx »

AndyinPA wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:45 am Cause for appeal?
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#924

Post by noblepa »

neonzx wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:07 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:45 am Cause for appeal?
IANAL, but I doubt it. While hugging the prosecutors may be an indication of bias against the defense, it wouldn't really make any difference. He confessed and plead guilty. There was never any chance that he would go free.

In the penalty phase, the jury only had two choices: Life without parole or death. He got the lesser of the two possible sentences.

If the defense were to appeal, the best they could hope for is a new sentencing trial. That puts the death penalty back on the table. They might be hoping for a judge who would make the sentences concurrent, rather than consecutive, but, if it were me, I wouldn't risk the death penalty on that unlikely event.

I don't think that even a "bleeding heart, soft on crime liberal" judge (are there any of those in FL?) would be allowed under FL law to sentence him to anything less than LWOP.

Still, that is extremely unprofessional conduct on the part of the judge.
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#925

Post by AndyinPA »

noblepa wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:29 pm
neonzx wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:07 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:45 am Cause for appeal?
IANAL, but I doubt it. While hugging the prosecutors may be an indication of bias against the defense, it wouldn't really make any difference. He confessed and plead guilty. There was never any chance that he would go free.

In the penalty phase, the jury only had two choices: Life without parole or death. He got the lesser of the two possible sentences.

If the defense were to appeal, the best they could hope for is a new sentencing trial. That puts the death penalty back on the table. They might be hoping for a judge who would make the sentences concurrent, rather than consecutive, but, if it were me, I wouldn't risk the death penalty on that unlikely event.

I don't think that even a "bleeding heart, soft on crime liberal" judge (are there any of those in FL?) would be allowed under FL law to sentence him to anything less than LWOP.

Still, that is extremely unprofessional conduct on the part of the judge.
Thanks. That makes sense.
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