Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

[pjhimself]

Thanks for your research/response. (Good to know someone reads my posts).

My point was/is that our reps (both parties) in DC establish laws, regulations and “debt limits” then do everything they can to avoid dealing with them instead of doing the work they’re supposed to.
(This may be a topic for a new thread).
Beyond that, enjoy the rest of your day.

[much ado]

In my opinion, which is not worth much, the 14th Amendment makes legislation that prevents the government from honoring its debt oblications unconstitutional.

Constitution Annotated

Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights - Section 4 Public Debt

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. [...]

In Googling for this, I discovered that ABC News published, just today, a statement by Yellen about problems with invoking the 14th Amendment to enable the government to continue making payments.

Using 14th Amendment to solve debt ceiling would risk 'constitutional crisis,' Yellen says

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Sunday said invoking the 14th Amendment to get around the debt ceiling and continue borrowing money to pay the nation's bills would risk a "constitutional crisis," downplaying the idea that the amendment would simply solve the looming problem -- but she avoided ruling it out entirely.

"What to do if Congress fails to meet its responsibility? There are simply no good options, and the ones that you've listed are among the not good options," Yellen told ABC "This Week" anchor George Stephanopoulos when pressed on whether the Biden administration was considering using the 14th Amendment, which states that the public debt "shall not be questioned."

Yellen said on "This Week" that the only way for the U.S. to avoid an unprecedented default as soon as next month is for Congress to pass legislation doing so, even as the White House and congressional Democrats appear to be in a stalemate with Republicans over GOP demands to tie steep spending cuts to raising or suspending the debt ceiling.

Amid that debate, President Joe Biden said on Friday, of trying to use the 14th Amendment as a solution: "I've not gotten there yet."

More at the link.

ETA: I think that if the debt ceiling is not raised in time, Biden will invoke the 14th Amendment to keep the United States from defaulting on its debt, and SCOTUS will have to decide whether a debt ceiling is constitutional.

[pjhimself]

Wish I had thought of calling out our elected officials like this:

What to do if Congress fails to meet its responsibility? There are simply no good options, and the ones that you've listed are among the not good options," Yellen told ABC "This Week" anchor George Stephanopoulos when pressed on whether the Biden administration was considering using the 14th Amendment, which states that the public debt "shall not be questioned."

Yellen said on "This Week" that the only way for the U.S. to avoid an unprecedented default as soon as next month is for Congress to pass legislation doing so, even as the White House and congressional Democrats appear to be in a stalemate with Republicans over GOP demands to tie steep spending cuts to raising or suspending the debt ceiling.

Asking Congress to meet its responsibilities…….. blasphemy…. Here anyway……..

[neonzx]

Asking Congress to meet its responsibilities…….. blasphemy…. Here anyway……..

Strange how Republicans only play this card when a Democrat is in the WH. A Republican president can spend whatever. It's almost like there is partisan gamesmanship going on with the Rs.

[pjhimself]

Asking Congress to meet its responsibilities…….. blasphemy…. Here anyway……..

Strange how Republicans only play this card when a Democrat is in the WH. A Republican president can spend whatever. It's almost like there is partisan gamesmanship going on with the Rs.

Thanks for your detailed analysis to prove your point.
Maybe this is a “gotcha” post.
And oh by the way why is this a partisan issue ?
Don’t we expect our Congress reps to do their jobs ????

[Suranis]

Thanks for your research/response. (Good to know someone reads my posts).

My point was/is that our reps (both parties) in DC establish laws, regulations and “debt limits” then do everything they can to avoid dealing with them instead of doing the work they’re supposed to.
(This may be a topic for a new thread).
Beyond that, enjoy the rest of your day.

That's not a point. You gave no examples of "both parties" doing shit.

Instead, as I will remind you, you asserted that the Debt limit has been a problem for over 100 years, and then when it was pointed out that was not true at all, you blathered the same thing with zero backup. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and you haven't provided any proof at all.

Instead you posted two lines from a wiki page and ignored the rest of the page that said flat out that you were so full of excrement it leaks out your nose.

Hell the wiki page says flat out that the Reps "in DC establish laws, regulations and “debt limits” then do everything they can to work with them and doing the work they’re supposed to," because they worked hard to work within the debt limit till 1979, then passed the Gephardt Rule.

A rule that stood in place till 1995. Which party controlled congress in 1995? I'll give you one guess, and a clue is that it starts with "R" and ends with "epublican." Which party started holding the country hostage with Debt ceiling fights after 1995? Which implies they deliberately killed the Gephardt Rule in order to make the debt ceiling a problem.

Ok, since when have the Democrats held up the government paying its bills in order get every stupid policy they want through? Give examples! I have!

Otherwise stop wasting our time just trolling with bullshit. You saying stuff is worthless. It's like asking "Have the government ever told the truth about Vaccines?" and using that question as to imply that they haven't. The problem is that someone can answer that question with "yes!" At which point you are screwed.

TL;DR you don't have a point or evidence for it. You just have been blinded by propaganda, and cant deal with people who can see through the crap that fooled you..

[pjhimself]

Thanks again for nothing.
The “debt limit” law was passed in 1917.
Congress has found ways of avoiding its own laws (this and others).
Look it up. A point you may wish to consider.
End of my story.
Hold your elected officials accountable or not.
Red hats or blue.
Throw shade at this poster, no further comment is necessary………
Avoid the “debt limit” issue, carry on.

Boy did I say a bunch a nothing..
Can’t wait for the blowback.

[keith]

Its been a problem only since the Republicans made it one in 1995.

This is like deja vu all over again.

I swear i was involved in this exact discussion, virtually word for word, about a year ago. The exact same sequence.

Its almost like the birthers have switched topics, but kept their tag team tactics.

[Suranis]

Thanks again for nothing.
The “debt limit” law was passed in 1917.
Congress has found ways of avoiding its own laws (this and others).
Look it up. A point you may wish to consider.
End of my story.
Hold your elected officials accountable or not.
Red hats or blue.
Throw shade at this poster, no further comment is necessary………
Avoid the “debt limit” issue, carry on.

Boy did I say a bunch a nothing..
Can’t wait for the blowback.

The laughable thing is that my "research" was just reading the Wikipedia page you linked to in order to "prove me wrong."

Dude you can say that over and over, but when other people say what actually happened, and it does not align with what you say, and you bring cant any actual facts to back yourself up, then sorry, it's just not true.

The Debt limit has not been a problem for over a century. Case closed. Both sides are not using it to creat a hostage & blackmail situation. Case closed.

Now, I think its a stupid law and should be eliminated, and it was between 1979 and 1995, but good luck with that. The Republicans would probably bring it back the next time they get control in order to have more hostage situations and scream about how both sides are the same.

I'm done here.

[Foggy]

Never expect honesty from a conservative Republican. If they accidentally tell the truth about any subject whatsoever, they will get sick and die.

[pjhimself]

Never expect honesty from a conservative Republican. If they accidentally tell the truth about any subject whatsoever, they will get sick and die.

I expected this low rent response (even while I expect more).
Debt limit has been over ridden many times by those who established it.
Change the subject but that remains true.

[pjhimself]

Sorry to introduce facts to this thread but the issue isn’t my political leaning ((which none of you seem to know),
It’s this:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Fire your shots where they matter.

[raison de arizona]

The debt is messed up and needs to be addressed. The method of addressing it isn't to stop making payments. That is shooting oneself in one's foot.

[pjhimself]

The debt is messed up and needs to be addressed. The method of addressing it isn't to stop making payments. That is shooting oneself in one's foot.

Oh my, a nonpartisan, no name calling contribution. Thanks

[Foggy]

Sorry to introduce facts to this thread but the issue isn’t my political leaning.

You posted a dishonest YouTube to start the discussion, so don't fucking tell us what the issue is. You won't admit your political leaning in words, but we have your actions to guide us. Those are pretty clear, while your words are not.

We've been a country for 236 years and 28% of the national debt was incurred during the Trump administration.

So fuck any Republican that doesn't own it.

[pjhimself]

Sorry to introduce facts to this thread but the issue isn’t my political leaning.

You posted a dishonest YouTube to start the discussion, so don't fucking tell us what the issue is. You won't admit your political leaning in words, but we have your actions to guide us. Those are pretty clear, while your words are not.

We've been a country for 236 years and 28% of the national debt was incurred during the Trump administration.

So fuck any Republican that doesn't own it.

Thanks for living down to my expectations.
The title of the thread implies president involvement in the debt ceiling, yet it’s mostly a Congressional function.
The video I posted highlights republicans doing nothing but throwing shade at dems. You should have watched.
Oh, by the way, I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. Sorry to introduce facts not in evidence.
Whether it’s “dishonest” is on the originator, not me. Your opinion is yours to formulate.
It’s also on you to counter with whatever (or throw shade).
I didn’t purposely leave out anything, despite claims otherwise.
My point was/is nothing is being done by our elected officials (both parties) to manage our debt. You seem to think that’s not the topic of the thread. So be that. Maybe you’ll go back and read some responses……

A question to consider is which party controlled the Congress when the debt rose above $30m.
Or which party controlled Congress when it rose to the mid 20s.
Answer R and/or D and you win. Throw shade if you must but……..
Trump didn’t, Biden didn’t, (I didn’t either) your Congress(whichever one you voted for) did.

There are enough threads here throwing shade back and forth.
Now that this one has become another, no thanks.

And, if you use the same profanity at your family dinner table as you do here, be well.

[raison de arizona]

A question to consider is which party controlled the Congress when the debt rose above $30m.
Or which party controlled Congress when it rose to the mid 20s.
Answer R and/or D and you win. Throw shade if you must but……..
Trump didn’t, Biden didn’t, (I didn’t either) your Congress(whichever one you voted for) did.

The whole premise of the video you posted was that Biden was at fault here. Are you backing off that now?

[Foggy]

At least I'm honest at my family dinner table, unlike some people.

[Foggy]

The whole premise of the video you posted was that Biden was at fault here. Are you backing off that now?

No, he's desperately trying to change the subject. I'm about to restrict him to the sports threads. He can't be honest elsewhere.

[Foggy]

Nope, not gonna do that. Had a lovely walk with ol' Wifehorn and I feel better now. It's an awesome day in the neighborhood.

'Course, today's verdict improved my mood, too also.

But basically, I just can't stomach censorship, unless it gets a lot worse than this.

I'll go back to ignoring the stupid videos and let the rest of y'all deal with it.

Only one American political party is a direct threat to American democracy and our way of life.


If a Republican accidentally tells the truth about any subject whatsoever, they can get sick and die. This time I'm not making it mandatory.

[pjhimself]

A question to consider is which party controlled the Congress when the debt rose above $30m.
Or which party controlled Congress when it rose to the mid 20s.
Answer R and/or D and you win. Throw shade if you must but……..
Trump didn’t, Biden didn’t, (I didn’t either) your Congress(whichever one you voted for) did.

The whole premise of the video you posted was that Biden was at fault here. Are you backing off that now?

Which part of me blaming Biden is apparent?

The folks in the video pointed fingers elsewhere and underscored a 2011 claim about managing debt, not me.
The Whole premise of the video is what you make of it.

[Dave from down under]

It appears that the US has for the last 50 years had debt problems caused by Republicans in power.

So the obvious solution is not to have them in positions of power, then raise taxes on those that can afford to pay them and close the tax evasion loopholes.

But that might be too sensible.

[raison de arizona]

A question to consider is which party controlled the Congress when the debt rose above $30m.
Or which party controlled Congress when it rose to the mid 20s.
Answer R and/or D and you win. Throw shade if you must but……..
Trump didn’t, Biden didn’t, (I didn’t either) your Congress(whichever one you voted for) did.

The whole premise of the video you posted was that Biden was at fault here. Are you backing off that now?

Which part of me blaming Biden is apparent?

The folks in the video pointed fingers elsewhere and underscored a 2011 claim about managing debt, not me.
The Whole premise of the video is what you make of it.

The video is only a minute and a half. I rewatched it to ensure my recollection was accurate. I stand by my statement.

[pjhimself]

The whole premise of the video you posted was that Biden was at fault here. Are you backing off that now?

No, he's desperately trying to change the subject. I'm about to restrict him to the sports threads. He can't be honest elsewhere.

You are clearly making your own reputation.
No bad words, no profanity, just you.
Own it.
Until you delete the evidence.

[Foggy]