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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

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raison de arizona
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#51

Post by raison de arizona »

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“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#52

Post by raison de arizona »

Well, color me astonished! Say it ain't so Senator!
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#53

Post by Slim Cognito »

She's not getting reelected. I don't know if an R or a D will take the spot in '24 but it won't be her.
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#54

Post by p0rtia »

Of all the things for a Democratic Senator to block: allowing competitive bidding on meds. JHC.
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#55

Post by fierceredpanda »

Slim Cognito wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:22 pm She's not getting reelected. I don't know if an R or a D will take the spot in '24 but it won't be her.
She doesn't care. She'll have a cushy job lined up at some K Street lobbying outfit doing very little work for an obscene salary - Corporate America's reward for her basically single-handedly derailing Joe Biden's presidency. Her endgame is not that hard to anticipate.
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#56

Post by Frater I*I »

fierceredpanda wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:06 am :snippity:

She doesn't care. She'll have a cushy job lined up at some K Street lobbying outfit doing very little work for an obscene salary - Corporate America's reward for her basically single-handedly derailing Joe Biden's presidency. Her endgame is not that hard to anticipate.
That's if she doesn't turn to the dark side, and put the Dark Lord of the Mitch back into power...
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He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#57

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#58

Post by Phoenix520 »

Y’all keep saying she’s changed from way back when she was on RC’s show, but this Synema is the one I remember - a woman always with an eye out for the main chance, willing to fudge, back pedal, or be bribed.

She won’t remain a Dem for long, whether she’s re-elected or not.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#59

Post by Reality Check »

I suppose we can resurrect this thread to cover the current GOP created crisis with the debit ceiling. :brickwallsmall:
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#60

Post by Suranis »

I COMMAND THIS TREAD TO RIIIIIISEE!

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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#61

Post by Reality Check »

This has probably been covered before but there are some alternative actions. I like invoking the 14th Amendment.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... n-mccarthy
2) Invoke the 14th Amendment

Some legal scholars have argued that Section 4 of the 14th Amendment, which specifies that “the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned,” renders the debt ceiling unconstitutional, as it threatens the validity of the US’s public debts by creating the possibility of default.

This is hardly a consensus position among constitutional law experts, but if Biden were to declare he was ignoring the debt ceiling because it’s unconstitutional, it’s not clear that anyone would have legal standing to sue him and challenge the decision. That helped encourage a number of political actors, from then-House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to former President Bill Clinton, to urge Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment during his debt ceiling showdowns.

Obama declined repeatedly, arguing in 2013 that “if you start having a situation in which there’s legal controversy about the US Treasury’s authority to issue debt, the damage will have been done, even if that were constitutional, because people wouldn’t be sure.”
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#62

Post by raison de arizona »

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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#63

Post by raison de arizona »

Rep. Matt Gaetz @RepMattGaetz wrote: Today we are sending a clear message to Joe Biden: there will be no increase in the debt limit without significant spending cuts.

House Republicans have laid out a budget plan that does not cut Social Security or Medicare, but that attacks a woke and weaponized government that hurts the economic security of the American people.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#64

Post by raison de arizona »

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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#65

Post by raison de arizona »

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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#66

Post by Dave from down under »

He is good!
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

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Post by Annrc »

:thumbsup:
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#68

Post by humblescribe »

McCarthy is a AA player trying to earn a spot in the Show.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#69

Post by pjhimself »

Discussion on the debt ceiling should include some perspective before blaming one party or the other (methinks):
A statutorily imposed debt ceiling has been in effect since 1917 when the US Congress passed the Second Liberty Bond Act. Before 1917 there was no debt ceiling in force, but there were parliamentary procedural limitations on the amount of debt that could be issued by the government.

Except for about a year during 1835–1836, the United States has continuously had a fluctuating public debt since the US Constitution legally went into effect on March 4, 1789. Debts incurred during the American Revolutionary War and under the Articles of Confederation led to the first yearly report on the amount of the debt ($75,463,476.52 on January 1, 1791[1]). The national debt, as expressed in absolute dollars, has increased under every presidential administration since Herbert Hoover.
Depending on who is doing the research, it is said that the US has raised its debt ceiling (in some form or other) at least 90 times in the 20th century.[13]

The debt ceiling was raised 74 times from March 1962 to May 2011,[14] including 18 times under Ronald Reagan, eight times under Bill Clinton, seven times under George W. Bush, and five times under Barack Obama. In practice, the debt ceiling has never been reduced, even though the public debt itself may have reduced.

Congress has raised the debt ceiling 14 times from 2001 to 2016. The debt ceiling was raised a total of 7 times (total increase of $5365bil) during Pres. Bush's eight-year term and it was raised 11 times (as of 03/2015 a total increase of $6498bil) during Pres. Obama's eight years in office.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... bt_ceiling

The point I’m trying to make is that both parties have broken their own 1917 legislation many times and we the voters allow them to get away with it along with all the other laws they exempt themselves with.

Yet we’re stuck here in this forum on throwing rocks back and forth between red and blue when they’re both not obeying the law they passed Over 100 years ago.

(Can’t wait to see where this goes….)
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#70

Post by keith »

pjhimself wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:11 pm
The point I’m trying to make is that both parties have broken their own 1917 legislation many times and we the voters allow them to get away with it along with all the other laws they exempt themselves with.
You are right, more perspective is required for this discussion. Context is important. With that in mind I have a few questions for you.

1) What exactly do you mean by "both parties have broken their own 1917 legislation many times"?
2) How many is 'many'?
3) In what way has the 1917 legislation been broken in the past?
4) Please list the "many times" the "parties" broken the debt ceiling legislation - and which party it was that broke it.

To further the contextual landscape, may I suggest you also review the instances when the Government (administered by any party) has shut down because it WILL NOT the violate debt ceiling law, and when it did not shut down resulting in violation of the law.

5) Please list those government shutdown or failure to shutdown instances. Please include in the list the parties in control when Congress refused to honour the National Debt as required by the Constitution thus triggering the shutdown or violation.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#71

Post by RTH10260 »

To note that the 1917 legislation has been superceeded by the Public Debts Act of 1939. It's the latter that gets modified to increase the federal debt limit. The main difference between the two is that the former limited the government spending on a list of specific areas while the latter is a top limit on all spending. While it's a small part, inflation would require some increase at times.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#72

Post by raison de arizona »

McCarthy responds to Biden's letter. What an asshat.
RNC Research @RNCResearch wrote: "I don't know what more I can do," says @SpeakerMcCarthy after asking "to sit down with [Biden] for months."

"I would bring the lunch to the White House. I would make it soft food if that's what he wants!"
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#73

Post by pjhimself »

Some years back I became fixated on the 1917 law being a guide. Wrong, I didn’t keep up.

Answers to other questions are probably found here (posted in my previous post):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... bt_ceiling
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#74

Post by raison de arizona »

:nope:
Senator John Thune @SenJohnThune wrote: Let me be clear: The only debt limit deal that can pass the Senate will be something that is agreeable to both House Republicans and the White House.

If nothing changes, President Biden will be responsible for the first ever default on our national debt.
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Raise the Debt Ceiling? Not when a Democrat is President

#75

Post by Slim Cognito »

If House GOP doesn’t back down, they’re heroes. If Biden doesn’t back down, its all his fault.

Sounds legit.
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