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Gas

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keith
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Re: Gas

#126

Post by keith »

northland10 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:37 pm I am, however, confused. Conservatives are all about free-market and no government intrusion, or so they say. Yet, they want Biden to fix the gas prices which could be intrusion into a private industry. If we are supposed to believe that everything is better when the market dictates, then the market is dictating higher gas prices and the public keeps buying.
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Re: Gas

#127

Post by Lani »

Costco $5.59, most of the rest are $5.89.
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Re: Gas

#128

Post by northland10 »

neonzx wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:18 pm I just checked online at my local Walmart -- prices of the two biggest brands (Bud and Miller) are stable, but all the products are "Out of Stock".
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Re: Gas

#129

Post by raison de arizona »

noblepa wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:01 pm Does anyone really believe that the gas companies will actually lower the price of gas by that purported $0.18?

I think that gas prices might drop as much as five cents, but the gas companies will simply pocket the rest.

Even if the gas companies do the honorable thing (yeah, I know) and lower the wholesale price by 18 cents, many retailers will not make a corresponding adjustment to the pump price.
Chad Pergram @ChadPergram wrote: Dem VA Sen Warner on proposed gas tax policy: I want to get more data on whether this kind of savings would actually be passed on to consumers.
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Re: Gas

#130

Post by neonzx »

So this morning I went to top off my tank. Local station was $4.73 but my GasBuddy card took it down to $4.51.
And I was like YES! :blissy: ... for a moment.

Then I was like, I'm excited to be paying $4.51??? :smoking: ,,,
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Re: Gas

#131

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Gas

#132

Post by RTH10260 »

Let's speak about a windfall tax proposal for the oil industry, or you prefer the suspension :?:

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Re: Gas

#133

Post by RTH10260 »

Of course the Democrats will miss the opportunity to tell the consumers who is messing with their $$$ this summer break.
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Re: Gas

#134

Post by MN-Skeptic »

I filled up at Costco this afternoon for $4.45/gal.
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Re: Gas

#135

Post by noblepa »

As much as I would love to see gas prices come down, I think a gas tax holiday is a waste of time.

I think it would save a lot of time and effort if the government would simply write a check to the oil industry for a couple of billion dollars, because that is what the result will be; a massive subsidy for the industry and almost no change for the consumer.
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Re: Gas

#136

Post by raison de arizona »

:yeahthat:
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Re: Gas

#137

Post by humblescribe »

noblepa wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:50 pm As much as I would love to see gas prices come down, I think a gas tax holiday is a waste of time.

I think it would save a lot of time and effort if the government would simply write a check to the oil industry for a couple of billion dollars, because that is what the result will be; a massive subsidy for the industry and almost no change for the consumer.
They already do: The oil companies receive huge subsidies to keep fuel prices down, unlike most of the rest of the civilized world. They include, but are not limited to....

---Special income tax treatment of intangible drilling costs.

---Permitting the LIFO method (last in first out) of accounting for inventory. This results in an understatement of inventory because inventory purchased today costs more than inventory produced last year. In other words, the inventory costs deducted as product is sold (cost of goods sold) are those incurred most recently, not those that were acquired years, if not decades past. Think of layers of inventory, with the deduction always taken from the top.

---Royalty payments to foreign governments. Instead of taking a deduction for these royalty payments and reducing taxable income, the Code permits these royalty payments to be classified as a foreign tax. No deduction, but a dollar-for-dollar reduction in tax. Income tax advice #2 is that a tax credit is always better than a tax deduction.

---Petroleum shipped in US navigable waterways do not pay a tonnage fee to ship their products, unlike other commodities.

---Percentage depletion of 15%. This is an annual deduction based upon the gross revenue from oil and gas extraction. This goes on for as long as a well produces crude or natural gas.

There are others as well.

I don't think we can easily figure how much money the oil companies save with these and other benefits, but it is not a trivial amount.
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Re: Gas

#138

Post by raison de arizona »

humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:09 pm
noblepa wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:50 pm As much as I would love to see gas prices come down, I think a gas tax holiday is a waste of time.

I think it would save a lot of time and effort if the government would simply write a check to the oil industry for a couple of billion dollars, because that is what the result will be; a massive subsidy for the industry and almost no change for the consumer.
They already do: The oil companies receive huge subsidies to keep fuel prices down, unlike most of the rest of the civilized world. They include, but are not limited to....

---Special income tax treatment of intangible drilling costs.

---Permitting the LIFO method (last in first out) of accounting for inventory. This results in an understatement of inventory because inventory purchased today costs more than inventory produced last year. In other words, the inventory costs deducted as product is sold (cost of goods sold) are those incurred most recently, not those that were acquired years, if not decades past. Think of layers of inventory, with the deduction always taken from the top.

---Royalty payments to foreign governments. Instead of taking a deduction for these royalty payments and reducing taxable income, the Code permits these royalty payments to be classified as a foreign tax. No deduction, but a dollar-for-dollar reduction in tax. Income tax advice #2 is that a tax credit is always better than a tax deduction.

---Petroleum shipped in US navigable waterways do not pay a tonnage fee to ship their products, unlike other commodities.

---Percentage depletion of 15%. This is an annual deduction based upon the gross revenue from oil and gas extraction. This goes on for as long as a well produces crude or natural gas.

There are others as well.

I don't think we can easily figure how much money the oil companies save with these and other benefits, but it is not a trivial amount.
The figure I've seen tossed around is $20B/yr, but I'm not sure how they figure it. I suspect that number is laughably low.

Yale estimates $5.9T for 2020 via IMF, and they detail their methods if you click through enough: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fue ... port-finds
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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sugar magnolia
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Re: Gas

#139

Post by sugar magnolia »

Maybe I'm the outlier (as usual) but if you can't afford an extra $3-$4.00 per fill up, how the hell are you buying tires and tags and insurance?
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Re: Gas

#140

Post by humblescribe »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:20 pm Maybe I'm the outlier (as usual) but if you can't afford an extra $3-$4.00 per fill up, how the hell are you buying tires and tags and insurance?
I cannot say with absolute certainty. But I believe that many folks spend their money as fast as they acquire it. And many people spend their money foolishly. So, they do buy tires, pay for their tags, and have some sort of insurance. And many people are maxed out on credit cards to boot.

So, that extra $3-$4 per fill up means that they can't spend that money on non-essential things. Not being judgmental, we all have our impulses and bad habits. And if they can't get their pack of smokes, or pay a little more on the credit cards, or get their jet skis repaired, well, they are pissed.

But I think you slipped a digit. Gas prices are more than a dollar today than before. With a 15-gallon fill-up, they're out of pocket $15-$20 or more, depending on state and tank size.
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Re: Gas

#141

Post by sugar magnolia »

humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:56 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:20 pm Maybe I'm the outlier (as usual) but if you can't afford an extra $3-$4.00 per fill up, how the hell are you buying tires and tags and insurance?
I cannot say with absolute certainty. But I believe that many folks spend their money as fast as they acquire it. And many people spend their money foolishly. So, they do buy tires, pay for their tags, and have some sort of insurance. And many people are maxed out on credit cards to boot.

So, that extra $3-$4 per fill up means that they can't spend that money on non-essential things. Not being judgmental, we all have our impulses and bad habits. And if they can't get their pack of smokes, or pay a little more on the credit cards, or get their jet skis repaired, well, they are pissed.

But I think you slipped a digit. Gas prices are more than a dollar today than before. With a 15-gallon fill-up, they're out of pocket $15-$20 or more, depending on state and tank size.
18 cents per gallon of federal tax on a 20 gallon tank is $3.60.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... x-holiday/
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Re: Gas

#142

Post by Patagoniagirl »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:20 pm Maybe I'm the outlier (as usual) but if you can't afford an extra $3-$4.00 per fill up, how the hell are you buying tires and tags and insurance?
Well...I pay my insurance timely, I pay timely for tag and DL renewal. Not only has the gas price hike caused me real financial hardship in what used to be my four-times or more visits a month to visit and shop for my mom. It's a real damned punch in the pocket.

So, for some, Sugar, it's an either or, and a real hardship. Forget about a new tire or mechanical breakdown. Vehicle registration and DL renewals here nip away at my income along with property taxes.

I suspect that many poorer folks have to just spin the wheel and take their chances.

Gas is not $4-5 gallon to fill up the tank. That's about $2 more a gallon! A big bite in the ass for me.
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Re: Gas

#143

Post by sugar magnolia »

Y'all do realize Biden is talking about an 18 cent a gallon federal tax, and just politely asking the states to do the same for the state taxes? That comes out to less than $4 a tank savings for a 20 gallon tank.
Right now, the federal government charges an 18 cent tax per gallon of gasoline and a 24 cent tax per gallon of diesel. Those taxes fund critical highways and public transportation, through the Highway Trust Fund. But in this unique moment, with gas prices near $5 a gallon on average across the country, President Biden is calling on Congress to suspend the gas tax for three months – until the end of September – to give Americans a little extra breathing room as they deal with the effects of Putin’s war in Ukraine.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... x-holiday/
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Re: Gas

#144

Post by Patagoniagirl »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:05 pm
humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:56 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:20 pm Maybe I'm the outlier (as usual) but if you can't afford an extra $3-$4.00 per fill up, how the hell are you buying tires and tags and insurance?
I cannot say with absolute certainty. But I believe that many folks spend their money as fast as they acquire it. And many people spend their money foolishly. So, they do buy tires, pay for their tags, and have some sort of insurance. And many people are maxed out on credit cards to boot.

So, that extra $3-$4 per fill up means that they can't spend that money on non-essential things. Not being judgmental, we all have our impulses and bad habits. And if they can't get their pack of smokes, or pay a little more on the credit cards, or get their jet skis repaired, well, they are pissed.

But I think you slipped a digit. Gas prices are more than a dollar today than before. With a 15-gallon fill-up, they're out of pocket $15-$20 or more, depending on state and tank size.
18 cents per gallon of federal tax on a 20 gallon tank is $3.60.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... x-holiday/
$3.60 for the tank? I think not. BS. In 2021, gas here was $3/gallon. Today, $4.10. a gallon. I'm no math wiz, but that is $1.10 PER GALLON.. figure your tank capacity and it's much more than 3-4 bucks per tank.
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Re: Gas

#145

Post by sugar magnolia »

Patagoniagirl wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:21 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:05 pm
humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:56 pm

I cannot say with absolute certainty. But I believe that many folks spend their money as fast as they acquire it. And many people spend their money foolishly. So, they do buy tires, pay for their tags, and have some sort of insurance. And many people are maxed out on credit cards to boot.

So, that extra $3-$4 per fill up means that they can't spend that money on non-essential things. Not being judgmental, we all have our impulses and bad habits. And if they can't get their pack of smokes, or pay a little more on the credit cards, or get their jet skis repaired, well, they are pissed.

But I think you slipped a digit. Gas prices are more than a dollar today than before. With a 15-gallon fill-up, they're out of pocket $15-$20 or more, depending on state and tank size.
18 cents per gallon of federal tax on a 20 gallon tank is $3.60.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... x-holiday/
$3.60 for the tank? I think not. BS. In 2021, gas here was $3/gallon. Today, $4.10. a gallon. I'm no math wiz, but that is $1.10 PER GALLON.. figure your tank capacity and it's much more than 3-4 bucks per tank.
I'm not talking about the price of a gallon of gas, I'm talking about the "gas tax holiday." The only thing Biden has any input on is the federal gas tax. Which is 18 cents a gallon.
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Re: Gas

#146

Post by humblescribe »

Sorry, Sugar.

I was not aware, or was not paying attention that you were referring solely to the gas tax holiday.

But I stand by my response. Lotsa folks are maxed out and don't have any cash reserves for the proverbial rainy day. An extra three or four bucks per week (or more depending upon commute and other things) might mean they have to skimp elsewhere.
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Re: Gas

#147

Post by sugar magnolia »

humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:40 pm Sorry, Sugar.

I was not aware, or was not paying attention that you were referring solely to the gas tax holiday.

But I stand by my response. Lotsa folks are maxed out and don't have any cash reserves for the proverbial rainy day. An extra three or four bucks per week (or more depending upon commute and other things) might mean they have to skimp elsewhere.
But that's true of anything, including food and housing and electricity.
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Re: Gas

#148

Post by AndyinPA »

On the news the other day, they were saying that in an adjacent county, ridership on public transit has increased noticeably with the rising costs of fuel. That's not a bad thing. Several people said they might continue using public transit. This is not Allegheny County, where Pittsburgh is, but one of the other counties where public transit is not as available. But I know this doesn't apply to a lot of places, and public transit may be more reliable for getting to and from work than it is for doing errands, like doctors' appointments, grocery shopping, etc.

I just wish the news covered why fuel is up more than just Biden...
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Re: Gas

#149

Post by Patagoniagirl »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:42 pm
humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:40 pm Sorry, Sugar.

I was not aware, or was not paying attention that you were referring solely to the gas tax holiday.

But I stand by my response. Lotsa folks are maxed out and don't have any cash reserves for the proverbial rainy day. An extra three or four bucks per week (or more depending upon commute and other things) might mean they have to skimp elsewhere.
But that's true of anything, including food and housing and electricity.

So, what was your point? That folks of limited income flout the law? Or they gripe about gas prices because it cuts into their income so they don't pay their tags renewal, taxes, and tires.

I certainly don't begrudge people who are fortunate to have some disposal of income. I do begrudge those who have that, passing judgment on those less fortunate. I hope you and yours are fortunate, but don't think I'm not annoyed that your statement
"How are you affording tags, tires....". I felt that that was a slam towards people with little financial ability and if they can afford that...shut up and pay more for gas without bitching. Like no one is bitching about gas. Right?
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Re: Gas

#150

Post by sugar magnolia »

Patagoniagirl wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:04 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:42 pm
humblescribe wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:40 pm Sorry, Sugar.

I was not aware, or was not paying attention that you were referring solely to the gas tax holiday.

But I stand by my response. Lotsa folks are maxed out and don't have any cash reserves for the proverbial rainy day. An extra three or four bucks per week (or more depending upon commute and other things) might mean they have to skimp elsewhere.
But that's true of anything, including food and housing and electricity.

So, what was your point? That folks of limited income flout the law? Or they gripe about gas prices because it cuts into their income so they don't pay their tags renewal, taxes, and tires.

I certainly don't begrudge people who are fortunate to have some disposal of income. I do begrudge those who have that, passing judgment on those less fortunate. I hope you and yours are fortunate, but don't think I'm not annoyed that your statement
"How are you affording tags, tires....". I felt that that was a slam towards people with little financial ability and if they can afford that...shut up and pay more for gas without bitching. Like no one is bitching about gas. Right?
Boy did you miss my point. Had you read more carefully before arguing with me, you would have seen I was speaking specifically to the "gas tax holiday" and how little it matters in the grand scheme of gas prices. People are acting like it's going to actually do something for the price of gas. It's not. It's a grand total of 18 cents a gallon.
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