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sugar magnolia
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Re: Gas

#101

Post by sugar magnolia »

The gas station around the corner was $4.35 yesterday, $4.28 this morning.
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Re: Gas

#102

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

US refinery capacity is down about 5% since 2020.
EIA expects high refinery margins to contribute to increasing fuel production this summer

The price difference between the price of crude oil and the wholesale price of a refined petroleum product reflects the value of refining crude oil. This difference, known as the crack spread, can indicate refining margins and profitability. Crack spreads for both diesel and gasoline increased in the first several months of 2022.

Gasoline and diesel prices and crack spreads are well above historical averages in response to several factors including:

Low inventories for both petroleum products in the United States and globally
Fuel demand increases to near pre-pandemic levels
Relatively low refinery production of both fuels compared with pre-pandemic levels
Reduced petroleum product exports from Russia
In response to these high prices, we expect that refinery utilization will reach a monthly average level of 96% twice this summer, near the upper limits of what refiners can consistently maintain. We expect refinery utilization to average 96% in June, 94% in July, and 96% in August.

We estimate U.S. refinery inputs will average 16.7 million b/d during the second and third quarters of 2022. This average is lower than the 2019 refinery inputs average of 17.3 million b/d despite high utilization rates because of reductions in refinery capacity since early 2020. U.S. refinery capacity has fallen by almost 1.0 million b/d since early 2020 because several refineries were closed or converted.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detai ... rly%202020.
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Re: Gas

#103

Post by Suranis »

Hic sunt dracones
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Re: Gas

#104

Post by roadscholar »

Demand is the only reason they can charge high prices. Unemployment at 4%, people stashed money during the pandemic uncertainty, plus the cabin fever effect… et voilá: $5.00 gas. So in effect you could say there’s good news behind the bad.
The bitterest truth is more wholesome than the sweetest lie.
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tek
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Re: Gas

#105

Post by tek »

The interesting thing is that there don't seem to be any actual shortages.

Which means that the oil company economists are doing a good job riding the demand curve* to extract profit rather than dealing with supply constraints. GOPers should be cheering that.

* "They're still buying lots of gas - ratchet it up another notch"
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Re: Gas

#106

Post by Suranis »

IMG_20220615_175056.jpg
IMG_20220615_175056.jpg (100.12 KiB) Viewed 1259 times

These were the prices at the Supermarket beside where I live yesterday. Note these are per Liter, not US Gallon.

1 gal (US) = 3.785411784 L

That works out to 8.396 Euros per US Gallon.

Or $8.858 per US Gallon.
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RTH10260
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Re: Gas

#107

Post by RTH10260 »

FWIW Swiss gas prices are around CHF 2.40 per litre, making a gallon to be about CHF 9.10 or approx $9.40.

To note that about 80% of that is duties and taxes and highway construction fees and VAT.

To note that diesel has slightly higher price cause certain taxes are based on energy equivalent, diesel being higher on that than gas.
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Re: Gas

#108

Post by raison de arizona »

Screen Shot 2022-06-16 at 4.15.09 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-06-16 at 4.15.09 PM.png (230.41 KiB) Viewed 1235 times
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10327
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Re: Gas

#109

Post by MsDaisy »

Suranis wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:05 pm IMG_20220615_175056.jpg


These were the prices at the Supermarket beside where I live yesterday. Note these are per Liter, not US Gallon.

1 gal (US) = 3.785411784 L

That works out to 8.396 Euros per US Gallon.

Or $8.858 per US Gallon.
:shock: :faint:
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Re: Gas

#110

Post by RTH10260 »

RTH10260 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:10 pm FWIW Swiss gas prices are around CHF 2.40 per litre, making a gallon to be about CHF 9.10 or approx $9.40.

To note that about 80% of that is duties and taxes and highway construction fees and VAT.

To note that diesel has slightly higher price cause certain taxes are based on energy equivalent, diesel being higher on that than gas.
ETA. several duties and taxes are raised in % of the base product price. So when oil prices on the world market rises the government gets windfall income. VAT is added last after delivery cost to the petrol station is included*. So that tax includes more cumulated windfall. :mad:

* remember, the delivery by truck uses itself already high priced petrol :cantlook:
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Re: Gas

#111

Post by neonzx »

To be fair, you all in those socialistic countries of western Europe can afford a bit more for gas. Try living in the USA and having vulture capitalism consume every dime of an average paycheck with nary a safety net you all get. You think America is great? I've been to Europe many times. (does anyone want to sponsor me?)
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Re: Gas

#112

Post by RTH10260 »

I admit with all those prepaid funds we do get fine roads. Nor do we need infrastructure weeks to fix tumbling bridges (I mean here in Switzerland, Italy does have its incidents).
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Re: Gas

#113

Post by humblescribe »

I can't find the formula easily online.

The damage to our roads by semis is exponentially greater than passenger automobiles. (I seem to recall it is to the fourth power.)

Here it is: (W1/W2)4

https://www.insidescience.org/news/how- ... -our-roads


Yet, the road taxes collected on diesel no where near compensates for the significant added wear and tear on the highways. Roads that were built to proper engineering standards with an original estimated life of 25 years need repairs and corrections after 10-12 years.

I know, if truckers paid their proportionate share of road taxes for the damages done to the highways, all our goods shipped by truck would increase by a lot.

Edited to add the formula and the reference.
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Re: Gas

#114

Post by raison de arizona »

humblescribe wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:19 pm I know, if truckers paid their proportionate share of road taxes for the damages done to the highways, all our goods shipped by truck would increase by a lot.
One might argue that it is in our national interest to subsidize the transportation of goods. But that would be socialism. As long as corporate interests are profiting on the backs of consumers by not paying their fair share, I say pay up, buttercup.
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Re: Gas

#115

Post by RTH10260 »

Speaking for Switzerland: the fee for vehicle license as represented by the registration plates is used to collect the contribution for wesr-and-tear of the road infrastructure. Transport vehicles pay more than passenger cars. Transport vehicle is anything heavier than 3.5 metric tons net. Geniuses have created a special heavy goods transportation tax derived by overall weight determined by loading papers and distance driven. "Genius" cause the inventors thaught they could move freight from road to rail. Of course does not work cause few delivery destinations are near a train cargo port, nor is multiple times reloading cost effective.
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Re: Gas

#116

Post by raison de arizona »

RTH10260 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:46 pm Speaking for Switzerland: the fee for vehicle license as represented by the registration plates is used to collect the contribution for wesr-and-tear of the road infrastructure. Transport vehicles pay more than passenger cars. Transport vehicle is anything heavier than 3.5 metric tons net. Geniuses have created a special heavy goods transportation tax derived by overall weight determined by loading papers and distance driven. "Genius" cause the inventors thaught they could move freight from road to rail. Of course does not work cause few delivery destinations are near a train cargo port, nor is multiple times reloading cost effective.
Vehicle registration in the US of course happens by state. Some states do something similar for heavy haulers. Some don't. Some charge registration as a percentage of the vehicle value, without regard to weight. It's a patchwork. I guess the federal gas tax is supposed to pick up the slack? Dunno.
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Re: Gas

#117

Post by humblescribe »

raison de arizona wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:50 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:46 pm Speaking for Switzerland: the fee for vehicle license as represented by the registration plates is used to collect the contribution for wesr-and-tear of the road infrastructure. Transport vehicles pay more than passenger cars. Transport vehicle is anything heavier than 3.5 metric tons net. Geniuses have created a special heavy goods transportation tax derived by overall weight determined by loading papers and distance driven. "Genius" cause the inventors thaught they could move freight from road to rail. Of course does not work cause few delivery destinations are near a train cargo port, nor is multiple times reloading cost effective.
Vehicle registration in the US of course happens by state. Some states do something similar for heavy haulers. Some don't. Some charge registration as a percentage of the vehicle value, without regard to weight. It's a patchwork. I guess the federal gas tax is supposed to pick up the slack? Dunno.
There is also an annual federal tax for semis, filed on form 2290.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-2290

Like everything under federal taxation, there are notable exceptions for trucks hauling agricultural products, under a certain gross vehicle weight, low mileage, and others. But the amount taxed per semi is pretty small potatoes.....
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Re: Gas

#118

Post by Volkonski »



Germany has decades of experience with coal gasification and liquefaction. There are about 150 gasification plants in Africa, China and the USA based on German Lurgi technology. There would be more if not for the development of low cost fracking technology.

This is probably not so much a wholesale return to coal use as it is a tactic to blunt Russia's attempts to use energy blackmail against countries supporting Ukraine.
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Re: Gas

#119

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Gas

#120

Post by raison de arizona »

I really hate these gas tax holidays. The money is going to have to be made up somewhere, and it is just another way (besides the $20B+ we already pay them) to subsidize record oil company profits.
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Re: Gas

#121

Post by Whatever4 »

I’ll take a gas holiday if they also do a windfall profits tax.
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Re: Gas

#122

Post by northland10 »

MsDaisy wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:24 pm
Suranis wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:05 pm IMG_20220615_175056.jpg


These were the prices at the Supermarket beside where I live yesterday. Note these are per Liter, not US Gallon.

1 gal (US) = 3.785411784 L

That works out to 8.396 Euros per US Gallon.

Or $8.858 per US Gallon.
:shock: :faint:
Well, I feel better.

It is only around 5.75 around me, 5:90+ in Chicago, and 5.06 when I filled up in Michigan on Monday.

I am, however, confused. Conservatives are all about free-market and no government intrusion, or so they say. Yet, they want Biden to fix the gas prices which could be intrusion into a private industry. If we are supposed to believe that everything is better when the market dictates, then the market is dictating higher gas prices and the public keeps buying.

Yeah, I know. Actual conservative values and the GOP parted company a long time ago.
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Re: Gas

#123

Post by noblepa »

raison de arizona wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:40 pm I really hate these gas tax holidays. The money is going to have to be made up somewhere, and it is just another way (besides the $20B+ we already pay them) to subsidize record oil company profits.
Does anyone really believe that the gas companies will actually lower the price of gas by that purported $0.18?

I think that gas prices might drop as much as five cents, but the gas companies will simply pocket the rest.

Even if the gas companies do the honorable thing (yeah, I know) and lower the wholesale price by 18 cents, many retailers will not make a corresponding adjustment to the pump price.
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Re: Gas

#124

Post by noblepa »

northland10 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:37 pm I am, however, confused. Conservatives are all about free-market and no government intrusion, or so they say. Yet, they want Biden to fix the gas prices which could be intrusion into a private industry. If we are supposed to believe that everything is better when the market dictates, then the market is dictating higher gas prices and the public keeps buying.

Yeah, I know. Actual conservative values and the GOP parted company a long time ago.

The republicans don't give a rat's ass about gas prices.

What they care about is a way to spin it with their base to make liberal democrats in general, and Joe Biden in particular, look bad. They also care about having plausible talking points when they appear on Fox News or NewsMax.
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Re: Gas

#125

Post by northland10 »

:yeahthat: :winner: :hemademe:

Forget that last one. I got carried away clicking smiles.
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