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Hybrids and E-vehicles

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Lani
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#26

Post by Lani »

I had a 2005 prius a while back when I gave my son to him when he moved to Honolulu. Still running. It's great car.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#27

Post by humblescribe »

pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am
Don't know where or when this video was produced. It is bullshit.

https://www.chooseenergy.com/data-cente ... -by-state/

Most of the electricity generated in these United States comes from natural gas.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/ele ... the-us.php

Coal is a distant second, followed by renewables and nuclear. Renewables are on the upswing, especially here in California. Coal is slowly phasing out despite Manchin's best efforts to keep his monthly allowance.

Many EV drivers charge at home. If they have solar panels, they can charge during the day and at least partly offset any carbon-based electricity, depending upon the time of day and size of their solar panel system.

In addition a "well to wheel" analysis concludes that EVs still contribute negatively to the environment, but not nearly as much as internal combustion engines. I think this is a very conservative analysis. As stated above, a lot depends upon the source of the electricity. It also ignores the potential of recycling batteries into new batteries, which of course will ease the stress on mining and refining the ores involved.

https://duquark.com/2019/06/03/environm ... -vehicles/

Finally, internal combustion engines are notoriously inefficient. Gasoline and diesel store energy like a battery. However in order to realize the benefit of this stored energy, the petroleum products must combust. At least 2/3 of this stored energy in gasoline and diesel is wasted in the form of heat. (Maybe great on a cold winter's day in Frostbite Falls, but otherwise, it is lost.) On the other hand, most electric motors are around 95% efficient. Most of the losses occur from rectification of AC to DC for storage in the battery. Then the DC must be converted back to AC through an inverter. There are losses at both ends.

Those old vacuum tubes in your Muntz, Philco, or Admiral television sets were a type of rectifier. They took the AC from the wall and sliced off the "negative flow" of the current so that it flowed in one direction (DC) in order to power the picture tube and other controls. It took about 20-30 seconds for those tubes to warm up before they would rectify the current.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#28

Post by RTH10260 »

humblescribe wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:03 pm
pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am https:// youtu.be/iPY3En10M6c
Don't know where or when this video was produced. It is bullshit.
:snippity:
Current interview, but the location is downunder, their economy works slightly different.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#29

Post by humblescribe »

OK, thanks!

Still, there was misinformation (to my way of thinking) in the video. Choosing the method of electricity generation is but one factor in the evaluation of electric versus internal combustion vehicle. And, yes, a grid that is 100% coal is going to be worse than a grid that is 100% renewables when it comes to charging a car.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#30

Post by Maybenaut »

We ordered a Mustang Mach E in February (scheduled for delivery in July :roll:).

We have solar, which so far (we went online in December, 2021) has offset about 17,446 lbs of CO2, or 872.25 gallons of gas, or 22,685 miles in my Honda Pilot (which I will be trading in when the Mustang arrives). Our system should generate enough to power the house and the car.

In our little corner of Western Virginia we have people pushing for solar farms, but there is a lot of resistance. Tourism is a main industry here, so lot of folks are opposed to anything that might interfere with the bucolic setting. I’m agnostic.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#31

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am
GODDAMN FUCKING LIAR!

Sorry, the utility in question is my employer. We're in the process of shutting down all our coal-burning plants. We have one left, but that will close before the battery plant comes online. In fact, one of the big reasons GM is building it's battery plant there is because we just brought online a new natural-gas plant that we oversized "just in case." 260 MW replacing our only remaining coal-fired plant (160 MW), which will go offline next year. We also have a 100 MW gas-fired co-generation plant (primary purpose is providing steam to GM and downtown Lansing). To those we can add 170 MW of renewable energy. In fact, I was the lead engineer on the largest tracking solar array in the state. Even if you include the PPA we have for a coal-burning plant on the east side of the state (up to 165 MW, which we hardly ever use ourselves, and will be shutdown in about 5 years), that's 530 MW to 330 MW, or about 38% coal worst case. Our portfolio hasn't been 95% coal for at least 10 years.

All that said, the direct energy consumption of an internal combustion engine creates far more pollution than an EV, even if the electricity comes from a coal plant (comparing pollution from the exhaust). I've done the calculations myself.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#32

Post by keith »

RTH10260 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:10 pm
humblescribe wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:03 pm
pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am https:// youtu.be/iPY3En10M6c
Don't know where or when this video was produced. It is bullshit.
:snippity:
Current interview, but the location is downunder, their economy works slightly different.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#33

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:52 pm
pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am
GODDAMN FUCKING LIAR!

Sorry, the utility in question is my employer. We're in the process of shutting down all our coal-burning plants. We have one left, but that will close before the battery plant comes online. In fact, one of the big reasons GM is building it's battery plant there is because we just brought online a new natural-gas plant that we oversized "just in case." 260 MW replacing our only remaining coal-fired plant (160 MW), which will go offline next year. We also have a 100 MW gas-fired co-generation plant (primary purpose is providing steam to GM and downtown Lansing). To those we can add 170 MW of renewable energy. In fact, I was the lead engineer on the largest tracking solar array in the state. Even if you include the PPA we have for a coal-burning plant on the east side of the state (up to 165 MW, which we hardly ever use ourselves, and will be shutdown in about 5 years), that's 530 MW to 330 MW, or about 38% coal worst case. Our portfolio hasn't been 95% coal for at least 10 years.

All that said, the direct energy consumption of an internal combustion engine creates far more pollution than an EV, even if the electricity comes from a coal plant (comparing pollution from the exhaust). I've done the calculations myself.
Ah. So this interview is from 2010, back when the Volt was brand new and renewable energy was just getting off the ground.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#34

Post by RTH10260 »

W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:44 pm
W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:52 pm
pjhimself wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am https:// youtu.be/iPY3En10M6c
GODDAMN FUCKING LIAR!

Sorry, the utility in question is my employer. We're in the process of shutting down all our coal-burning plants. We have one left, but that will close before the battery plant comes online. In fact, one of the big reasons GM is building it's battery plant there is because we just brought online a new natural-gas plant that we oversized "just in case." 260 MW replacing our only remaining coal-fired plant (160 MW), which will go offline next year. We also have a 100 MW gas-fired co-generation plant (primary purpose is providing steam to GM and downtown Lansing). To those we can add 170 MW of renewable energy. In fact, I was the lead engineer on the largest tracking solar array in the state. Even if you include the PPA we have for a coal-burning plant on the east side of the state (up to 165 MW, which we hardly ever use ourselves, and will be shutdown in about 5 years), that's 530 MW to 330 MW, or about 38% coal worst case. Our portfolio hasn't been 95% coal for at least 10 years.

All that said, the direct energy consumption of an internal combustion engine creates far more pollution than an EV, even if the electricity comes from a coal plant (comparing pollution from the exhaust). I've done the calculations myself.
Ah. So this interview is from 2010, back when the Volt was brand new and renewable energy was just getting off the ground.
The video clip was uploaded brand fresh by Sky News on their channel. I am not clear if they mixed decade old car promotion with a new interview on how "green" or how dirty electric energy is today :think:
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#35

Post by sugar magnolia »

Maybenaut wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:33 pm We ordered a Mustang Mach E in February (scheduled for delivery in July :roll:).

We have solar, which so far (we went online in December, 2021) has offset about 17,446 lbs of CO2, or 872.25 gallons of gas, or 22,685 miles in my Honda Pilot (which I will be trading in when the Mustang arrives). Our system should generate enough to power the house and the car.

In our little corner of Western Virginia we have people pushing for solar farms, but there is a lot of resistance. Tourism is a main industry here, so lot of folks are opposed to anything that might interfere with the bucolic setting. I’m agnostic.
Have you seen this?
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/06/14/for ... ower-loss/
Ford is issuing a recall for 48,924 Mustang Mach-Es due to potential power loss, which was initially reported by CNBC, and we have since confirmed. Additionally, Ford has told dealers to not deliver potentially affected Mustang Mach-Es.

According to the documents obtained by CNBC, the vehicles involved in the recall were built between May 27, 2020 and May 24, 2022. It’s not clear how many of the Mach-Es built during this period will be a part of this vehicle, but the nearly-49,000-vehicle recall accounts for approximately half of total Mustang Mach-E production.

We asked Ford for information regarding the recall, and were provided with detailed notes. In short, it's possible that the battery main contactors could overheat, causing the vehicle to lose power immediately. The company's full statement is below.

:snippity: :snippity: :snippity:
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#36

Post by Maybenaut »

sugar magnolia wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:03 pm
Have you seen this?
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/06/14/for ... ower-loss/
Yes. We got a notification. Will probably delay delivery, but shit happens. We’ll get it when we get it.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#37

Post by northland10 »

RTH10260 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:29 am
W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:44 pm
W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:52 pm

GODDAMN FUCKING LIAR!

Sorry, the utility in question is my employer. We're in the process of shutting down all our coal-burning plants. We have one left, but that will close before the battery plant comes online. In fact, one of the big reasons GM is building it's battery plant there is because we just brought online a new natural-gas plant that we oversized "just in case." 260 MW replacing our only remaining coal-fired plant (160 MW), which will go offline next year. We also have a 100 MW gas-fired co-generation plant (primary purpose is providing steam to GM and downtown Lansing). To those we can add 170 MW of renewable energy. In fact, I was the lead engineer on the largest tracking solar array in the state. Even if you include the PPA we have for a coal-burning plant on the east side of the state (up to 165 MW, which we hardly ever use ourselves, and will be shutdown in about 5 years), that's 530 MW to 330 MW, or about 38% coal worst case. Our portfolio hasn't been 95% coal for at least 10 years.

All that said, the direct energy consumption of an internal combustion engine creates far more pollution than an EV, even if the electricity comes from a coal plant (comparing pollution from the exhaust). I've done the calculations myself.
Ah. So this interview is from 2010, back when the Volt was brand new and renewable energy was just getting off the ground.
The video clip was uploaded brand fresh by Sky News on their channel. I am not clear if they mixed decade old car promotion with a new interview on how "green" or how dirty electric energy is today :think:
Here is the actual original video. The date is missing on the page but here is there detail from the search, and I went to the channel for the video and it was indeed at least 11 years ago.

I found another gotcha video for the same clip dated last year They are lying and lying big.

YouTube · whopperding · Sep 29, 2010
101010 :towel:
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#38

Post by raison de arizona »

Ford CFO says inflation has erased Mustang Mach-E profits, but isn’t hurting demand for new vehicles
  • Ford Motor’s CFO said Wednesday that the company isn’t yet seeing consumer demand for new vehicles drop off.
  • But rising commodity costs have wiped out the profit it initially expected to make on its electric Mustang Mach-E.
  • Ford CFO John Lawler noted one emerging sign that consumers may be reaching their inflationary limits: Ford Credit, the company’s financing arm, has seen an uptick in “delinquencies,” or late payments.
:snippity:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/15/ford-cf ... emand.html
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#39

Post by keith »

I saw a Holden branded Volt in Melbourne a couple of weeks ago.

Years ago, when Holden (Australian GM brand) was still manufacturing, the Aussie Government gave them many millions of dollars to upgrade the factory on the promise that they would manufacture Volts in Aussieland.

Specifically on that promise, I waited to replace my car ( an absolutely TERRIFIC Honda Integra VTIR) till the Volts came on line.

They never did, and Holden shut down.

I kept that Honda for 17 years, about 5 years too long. It was still going great when I traded it in, but it was going to start costing money pretty soon and didn't have much trade in. So now I've had the Civic I replaced it with for 9 years and again, its going great, but is gonna start costing me pretty soon.

Electrics are looking better and better now-a-days though. I think I might just get one this time around. Sadly, Honda doesn't seem to want to get on board with EVs so I won't be able to trust it to outlast me probably.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#40

Post by Maybenaut »

Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:08 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:03 pm
Have you seen this?
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/06/14/for ... ower-loss/
Yes. We got a notification. Will probably delay delivery, but shit happens. We’ll get it when we get it.
Just got a call from the dealer. Mach E was supposed to ship June 20, now will ship July 25. Not too terrible a delay.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#41

Post by neeneko »

keith wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:21 am Electrics are looking better and better now-a-days though. I think I might just get one this time around. Sadly, Honda doesn't seem to want to get on board with EVs so I won't be able to trust it to outlast me probably.
I keep looking at something like a used VW Golf, but wow do the battery issues with EVs still really spook me. It doesn't help that one of the youtube channels I follow does a bunch of restoration of 'no longer supported EVs' and the massive problems they can have when they are not getting the love an attention that only big PR pushes can support.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#42

Post by raison de arizona »

WTF even NC? Probably won't pass, but still.
David Gura @davidgura wrote: In North Carolina, House Bill 1049 "would allocate $50,000 to destroy free public car chargers ... if a town refuses to build free gas and diesel pumps next to the EV chargers."
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#43

Post by sugar magnolia »

Never made it out of committee. This was several months ago I think.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#44

Post by RTH10260 »

raison de arizona wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:05 pm WTF even NC? Probably won't pass, but still.
David Gura @davidgura wrote: In North Carolina, House Bill 1049 "would allocate $50,000 to destroy free public car chargers ... if a town refuses to build free gas and diesel pumps next to the EV chargers."
Would those pumps have needed to distribute any products? Wording sounds like a metal box would be sufficient, let people play for free with it :twisted:
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#45

Post by keith »

I don't understand,

The electricity is free?

What are they on about?
Has everybody heard about the bird?
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#46

Post by sugar magnolia »

keith wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:24 am I don't understand,

The electricity is free?

What are they on about?
It's not FAIIIIIIR they get free electricity but we don't get free gas!
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#47

Post by keith »

sugar magnolia wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:30 am
keith wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:24 am I don't understand,

The electricity is free?

What are they on about?
It's not FAIIIIIIR they get free electricity but we don't get free gas!
Why is electricity free?

Where is electricity free?
Has everybody heard about the bird?
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#48

Post by sugar magnolia »

keith wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:40 am
sugar magnolia wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:30 am
keith wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:24 am I don't understand,

The electricity is free?

What are they on about?
It's not FAIIIIIIR they get free electricity but we don't get free gas!
Why is electricity free?

Where is electricity free?
https://www.plugshare.com/map/free-ev-stations
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#49

Post by jcolvin2 »

My five year old plug-in hybrid Volvo has been in the dealer service department for two weeks. It abruptly stopped taking an external charge, though it can still recharge the battery from the gas engine. The dealer is apparently waiting on a part from Sweden. (The independent mechanic who I have used for most of my car repairs did not feel comfortable attempting to fix the charging system.) I guess one of the downsides to hybrid ownership is being at the mercy of the dealers’ overpriced and unresponsive service departments for electrical system repairs.
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Re: Hybrids and E-vehicles

#50

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

jcolvin2 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:57 am My five year old plug-in hybrid Volvo has been in the dealer service department for two weeks. It abruptly stopped taking an external charge, though it can still recharge the battery from the gas engine. The dealer is apparently waiting on a part from Sweden. (The independent mechanic who I have used for most of my car repairs did not feel comfortable attempting to fix the charging system.) I guess one of the downsides to hybrid ownership is being at the mercy of the dealers’ overpriced and unresponsive service departments for electrical system repairs.
We found a mechanic who is certified on hybrid systems. Insurance (theirs, not yours) won't cover working on a hybrid's electrical systems if you don't have that certification. They won't even replace a starter battery (the simple 12V car battery that ICE vehicles have). Finding that mechanic (who is only about two miles from our house!) saved us $1,000 when our 2007 Civic hybrid battery finally gave up the ghost last year. 14 years is a good run for that generation of hybrid battery! Getting the battery refurbished allows us to delay replacing Dr. Vicklund's car for a few years, by which point we will have paid off some home repair loans, the supply chain issues will hopefully have resolved, and more infrastructure will be in place to help make the decision for what type of vehicle to get easier.
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