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Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#101

Post by Maybenaut »

bob wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:23 pm Military Times: Marine lieutenant colonel who demanded ‘accountability’ in brig, not charged.

No charges yet, but per a Marine spox:
The general nature of the offenses being considered at the Art. 32 hearing are: Article 88 (contempt toward officials), Article 90 (willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer), Article 92 (failure to obey lawful general orders), Article 133 (conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman).
If he’s actually charged with all that stuff, assuming only one specification for each charge, the maximum punishment would be a dismissal (the officer equivalent of a dishonorable discharge) and nine years’ confinement. In the military they add them all up to get the max; if there are more specifications, the maximum goes up. There are no sentencing guidelines, but if he’s convicted he won’t get anywhere near that much time (althoughI can’t see any scenario where he wouldn’t be dismissed). At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the Marines forced this to a court-martial even if he were to see the light and seek administrative separation in lieu of court-martial.

So, even though there’s a lot of time on the table, are these felonies? It depends. The UCMJ doesn’t make a felony/misdemeanor distinction. Each state has it’s own definition based on the maximum punishment for each offense. Some states say that “military only” offenses (as these clearly are because they only exist in the military), are not felonies. I read somewhere that one state (can’t remember which) doesn’t recognize any court-martial conviction as a felony, but that was a very long time ago and might no longer be valid.

For the purposes of federal felon-in-possession laws he’d likely be disqualified both as a result of the max punishment for some of the charges, and because a dismissal is a discharge under dishonorable conditions.

Whether he’d be considered a felon for other purposes would depend on the facts. I used to get a lot of questions from clients about whether they were considered felons or not. The only answer I felt competent to give was for the federal firearm laws, and if they lived in the two states where I’m licensed to practice I could talk about those states.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#102

Post by raison de arizona »

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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#103

Post by Maybenaut »

Oh, cry me an RCM 305 river. They tried “lesser forms of restraint” to prevent future misconduct. They ordered him not to post on social media. It didn’t work. In fact, Scheller *knew* his later posts would result in confinement.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#104

Post by Phoenix520 »

Why are the RWNJ’s military heroes always the ones who undermine order, the ones willing to die on a mole hill?
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#105

Post by noblepa »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:07 pm Why are the RWNJ’s military heroes always the ones who undermine order, the ones willing to die on a mole hill?
If he had done this a year ago, while the OSG was still President, they would have been screaming "Lock him up!".
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#106

Post by neeneko »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:07 pm Why are the RWNJ’s military heroes always the ones who undermine order, the ones willing to die on a mole hill?
Within their ethical system, it isn't about what you do, but who you do it to and how it aligns with the natural order.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#107

Post by Maybenaut »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:07 pm Why are the RWNJ’s military heroes always the ones who undermine order, the ones willing to die on a mole hill?
Yeah, you see all these comments from non-military folk about how this guy, Terry Lakin, Paul Hague, etc., are all “heroes”.

But this sort of crime is extremely rare in the military (well, from what I’ve read, Hague isn’t a criminal, he’s just a dumbass). Anyhoo, the fact that military members almost never do this kind of stuff is, to me, proof that almost every military member, with the rare few exceptions, knows where the line is and is not willing to cross it.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#108

Post by Maybenaut »

Marine officer who criticized senior leaders on Afghanistan has been released from military brig
A Marine officer who publicly criticized the Biden administration’s chaotic evacuation of American and allied troops and civilians from Afghanistan has been released from a military brig a little over a week after he was incarcerated.

“Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller Jr. is being released from confinement today, Oct. 5, 2021, as a result of a mutual agreement between Lt. Col. Scheller, his Defense counsel, and the Commanding General, Training Command,” Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Sam Stephenson said in a statement. “No additional details regarding the agreement may be released at this time.”

Scheller was put in pretrial confinement at Camp Lejeune, N.C., on Sept. 27 after ignoring orders to refrain from posting on social media. He was previously relieved of his command after his initial criticism of the evacuations.

In a statement last week, Stephenson said Scheller stands accused of showing contempt toward officials, willfully disobeying a superior officer, failing to obey lawful orders and committing conduct unbecoming of an officer. He has not yet been charged.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#109

Post by fierceredpanda »

It's deeply ironic to me that the same crowd who think the appropriate penalty for black people not immediately complying with the demands of police (no matter how unreasonable) should be instant death do not understand that someone in the military can be tossed in the brig for insubordination.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#110

Post by Maybenaut »

fierceredpanda wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:00 am It's deeply ironic to me that the same crowd who think the appropriate penalty for black people not immediately complying with the demands of police (no matter how unreasonable) should be instant death do not understand that someone in the military can be tossed in the brig for insubordination.
That’s why there are so many layers of review of pretrial confinement - to prevent the stupidest soldier from being steamrolled by a vindictive commander.

But Scheller wasn’t tossed in the brig for insubordination; instead it was for the actual prevention of additional misconduct. And the kind of misconduct Scheller was engaging in is extremely damaging to the military, and his CO was right to put a stop to it.

Obviously, Scheller has agreed to something. Presumably, that includes, at the very least, no more social media posts. Whether they’ve also entered a plea agreement remains to be seen. Pretrial confinement can be a huge motivator.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#111

Post by fierceredpanda »

Maybenaut wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:19 am
fierceredpanda wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:00 am It's deeply ironic to me that the same crowd who think the appropriate penalty for black people not immediately complying with the demands of police (no matter how unreasonable) should be instant death do not understand that someone in the military can be tossed in the brig for insubordination.
Obviously, Scheller has agreed to something. Presumably, that includes, at the very least, no more social media posts. Whether they’ve also entered a plea agreement remains to be seen. Pretrial confinement can be a huge motivator.
Yes, being locked up does tend to have a...clarifying effect. But you're saying he could have already entered a plea even at the stage where we don't know if he's actually been charged with something. Am I understanding that correctly?
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#112

Post by Maybenaut »

fierceredpanda wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:29 am
Maybenaut wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:19 am
fierceredpanda wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:00 am It's deeply ironic to me that the same crowd who think the appropriate penalty for black people not immediately complying with the demands of police (no matter how unreasonable) should be instant death do not understand that someone in the military can be tossed in the brig for insubordination.
Obviously, Scheller has agreed to something. Presumably, that includes, at the very least, no more social media posts. Whether they’ve also entered a plea agreement remains to be seen. Pretrial confinement can be a huge motivator.
Yes, being locked up does tend to have a...clarifying effect. But you're saying he could have already entered a plea even at the stage where we don't know if he's actually been charged with something. Am I understanding that correctly?
He may have entered a plea agreement, yes. But not an actual plea.

First of all, even if there are no charges yet, we know they’re coming (but I personally think there already are charges — he’s been in the brig for over a week, and that’s a fairly long time, especially in a high-profile case).

There are a couple of options available to the parties at this stage. They can agree to administrative separation in lieu of court-martial. In that case the charges (if they exist) go away, or he doesn’t get charged. From the Marine Corps’ perspective, this would be a double-edged sword because it would put Scheller in exactly the position he was before he was confined, but it would also prevent the circus that’s likely to follow if it goes to trial.

It’s also possible that they hammered out a full-blown plea agreement whereby Scheller agrees to plead guilty to some charges in exchange for a particular sentence. This can happen even if no charges yet exist (the charge sheet would be drafted to conform to the agreement in that case). I think this is the more likely scenario, because I can’t see the Marines just letting this slide.

Or there could simply be an agreement dealing with restrictions on Scheller’s liberty while he awaits disposition. But I doubt it.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#113

Post by Luke »

Thanks a million Maybenaut, you're amazing. We're lucky having your insight. Hard to imagine Scheller is going to be quiet and not post. If that's the agreement and he sounds off again for his fans that will be something else. Agree about the Marines, if they lay down for this they will seem so weak. What an insane and awful time this is, cheering for insurrections and soldiers trash talking their military. Something has to break America's way.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#114

Post by Maybenaut »

Maybenaut wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:53 am
fierceredpanda wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:29 am
Maybenaut wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:19 am
Obviously, Scheller has agreed to something. Presumably, that includes, at the very least, no more social media posts. Whether they’ve also entered a plea agreement remains to be seen. Pretrial confinement can be a huge motivator.
Yes, being locked up does tend to have a...clarifying effect. But you're saying he could have already entered a plea even at the stage where we don't know if he's actually been charged with something. Am I understanding that correctly?
He may have entered a plea agreement, yes. But not an actual plea.

<snip>


Or there could simply be an agreement dealing with restrictions on Scheller’s liberty while he awaits disposition. But I doubt it.
Looks like I was wrong. He has been formally charged (I was right about that), but it appears that his agreement is likely limited to his pretrial conduct.

Here’s a military.com article saying he’s been charged. The quite a former Army JAG (I don’t know him), who seems to think they’ll let him resign in lieu of court-martial, and if he goes to court-martial he’d get slapped on the wrist by a military jury. I couldn’t disagree more.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... ideos.html

Another military.com article says
In the meantime, Scheller continues to pursue a deal that will let him avoid trial and walk away with an honorable discharge. According to the source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Scheller has submitted a request for resignation of his commission in lieu of trial to Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro; the source adds that "numerous" members of Congress have urged Del Toro to accept this request.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... ideos.html

He was released on Monday and charged today. I think if they were seriously considering separation in lieu, they wouldn’t have charged him. And I think, given the notoriety, they’ll not only go through with the trial, but put the hammer down. Dude is crazy if he thinks they’ll let him just walk out with an honorable.
Edit: I’m way over-speculating. I don’t know what’s going on.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#115

Post by Maybenaut »

Ugh. He’s going to skate (sort of). According to Stars and Stripes, he’s been charged with six specifications, but the case has been referred to a special, rather than a general, court-martial. That means no dismissal and no brig time.

But it does mean a federal conviction, which may or may not be a felony.

He’s going to lose his retirement, but so what? He’s apparently already raised a couple of million (I read that somewhere, but don’t have a cite). A sentence could include forfeiture of up to 2/3 pay per month for one year (which would end upon his separation), or he could be fined (which is a debt to the United States, and he’d owe it even after he leaves the service). Presumably his counsel has negotiated limits on that stuff in the pretrial agreement.

What an asshole.
Fired Marine commander Scheller charged with six crimes, faces court-martial

Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller Jr. will face a misdemeanor-level special court-martial on six charges filed by the Corps this week related to his public admonishing of American officials handling of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, service officials announced Wednesday.

Scheller, whose social media posts blasting top civilian and military officials garnered hundreds of thousands of views in the days after 13 U.S. troops were killed in a bombing at the Kabul airport, was formally charged Monday, one day before he was released from the brig at Camp Lejeune, N.C., a Marine spokesman said. He is accused of violating Uniform Code of Military Justice Article 88 by displaying contempt toward officials, Article 89 by disrespecting superior commissioned officers, Article 90 by willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer, Article 92 by dereliction in the performance of his duties and failure to obey an order or regulation, and Article 133 by displaying conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.

Those charges were referred on Wednesday morning to a special court-martial by Maj. Gen. Julian D. Alford, who leads Marine Training Command, according to Capt. Sam Stephenson, a spokesman for the command. A special court-martial limits the maximum punishment for service members found guilty​, and cannot sentence an officer found guilty to confinement or a punitive discharge. Sheller could face a loss of two-thirds pay per month, if convicted, according to the UCMJ.
More at the link.

https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine ... 48509.html
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#116

Post by sugar magnolia »

We can only hope he can't keep his mouth shut again.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#117

Post by Frater I*I »

If lowly CPL Frater had said such things, I'm quite sure he would have gotten a vacation at exotic Ft. Leavenworth.... :bored:
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#118

Post by Maybenaut »

Frater I*I wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:32 pm If lowly CPL Frater had said such things, I'm quite sure he would have gotten a vacation at exotic Ft. Leavenworth.... :bored:
Indeed. I’ve had clients pay a much higher price for much less serious stuff than this.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#119

Post by Maybenaut »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:48 pm We can only hope he can't keep his mouth shut again.
Once he’s out of the Marines there’s nothing they can do. Unless he retires, but I think that is unlikely in the extreme.
Edit: But I would’ve said that about a special court-martial too, so what do I know?
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#120

Post by sugar magnolia »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:45 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:48 pm We can only hope he can't keep his mouth shut again.
Once he’s out of the Marines there’s nothing they can do. Unless he retires, but I think that is unlikely in the extreme.
Edit: But I would’ve said that about a special court-martial too, so what do I know?
But won't there be some period of time between now and whenever he is officially separated? Plenty of opportunity for him to run his mouth and get in more hot water I would think.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#121

Post by Maybenaut »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:20 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:45 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:48 pm We can only hope he can't keep his mouth shut again.
Once he’s out of the Marines there’s nothing they can do. Unless he retires, but I think that is unlikely in the extreme.
Edit: But I would’ve said that about a special court-martial too, so what do I know?
But won't there be some period of time between now and whenever he is officially separated? Plenty of opportunity for him to run his mouth and get in more hot water I would think.
Yes, potentially. But I think the inside of the confinement facility likely gave him some perspective. Some might say he caved; he was all full of bluster until it became real, then he went looking for a deal.

I predict he’ll stay quiet until he’s out. But he’s lost a lot of support on the right because of his comments about trump. It’ll be interesting to see how he uses his infamy after he’s separated.
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#122

Post by Uninformed »

If you can't lie to yourself, who can you lie to?
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#123

Post by raison de arizona »

Marine who criticized U.S. handling of Afghanistan withdrawal will plead guilty, seek favorable discharge

A Marine officer whose viral videos criticizing senior officials for how they withdrew from Afghanistan created a political uproar will plead guilty to several charges and seek a discharge that allows him to keep some military benefits, one of his lawyers said Tuesday.
:snippity:
The Marine hopes to avoid jail time and secure either an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions.

“Our hope is for him to get a letter of reprimand, and no more,” Parlatore said.

The possibility of a plea deal was first reported by Coffee or Die Magazine.
:snippity:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#124

Post by Luke »

From the WaPo article (we've seen it before but wonder what Trumpers thought of it, probably covered their eyes and pretended he didn't say it):
Scheller has also criticized Republicans, including former president Donald Trump. In a Facebook post on Sept. 25, he wrote that “everyone” had told Scheller to “kiss the ring” and seek Trump’s help, but he said that he didn’t want to and that “I hate” how Trump “divided the country.”

“Tell your son to stop tweeting about me,” Scheller wrote, a reference to Donald Trump Jr. “Your whole family knows nothing about US or our sacrifices. I could never work with you.”
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Re: Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Stuart P. Scheller - Former AITB Commander - Terry Lakin II

#125

Post by Estiveo »

Whaddya know, an equal opportunity asshole.
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