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#376

Post by Foggy »

I have often wondered how Scandinavians survived on mostly fysshe in the 15th century, much less Englicans. It doesn't seem like there were a lot of farmers, or crops, or any other food that would be available.

My fambly was Episcopalian (C of E without the E) and we always ate fysshe on Fridays.

But my dad's mom was Catholic before she married his dad, so :shrug:
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#377

Post by AndyinPA »

I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
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#378

Post by neonzx »

AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
We had fish Fridays in the school cafeteria after 1966 year-round. Until high-school when we could buy pizza as a substitute.. And milk shakes al a carte.
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#379

Post by AndyinPA »

neonzx wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:11 am
AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
We had fish Fridays in the school cafeteria after 1966 year-round. Until high-school when we could buy pizza as a substitute.. And milk shakes al a carte.
I'm sure it took time to change, and good chance it never completely went away. Fish is often highlighted on some menus here, most Fridays.

I may live in a regional bubble here with the really big deal that are the Lenten fish fries.
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#380

Post by Kriselda Gray »

AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
We had fish Fridays up into the late 70s when I was in jr hi. I didn't notice it as much in high school because they offered other things as well.
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#381

Post by Volkonski »

AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
Yes. I recall that when meatless Fridays ceased to be mandatory for Roman Catholics my high school started serving cheaper meat-based meals on Fridays. I had a couple of Orthodox Christian friends who were inconvenienced since they could not eat the meat-based Friday meals.
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#382

Post by neonzx »

Volkonski wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:58 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
Yes. I recall that when meatless Fridays ceased to be mandatory for Roman Catholics my high school started serving cheaper meat-based meals on Fridays.
And thus was born the legendary Salisbury steak with gravy and instant mashed potatoes. Still love it occasionally through this day. :biggrin:

Who invented the no-meat Friday deal? The fishing industry?
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#383

Post by Foggy »

Foggy wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:31 am My fambly was Episcopalian (C of E without the E) and we always ate fysshe on Fridays.

But my dad's mom was Catholic before she married his dad, so :shrug:
Ol' Wifehorn reports that her fambly was Scottish Congregationalists on her mother's side and Lutheran on her (German) father's side, and they ate fysshe on Fridays.

We discussed it, and we agreed that the Catholics probably started it, but "fysshe on Fridays" is just a really good idea for several reasons - health-related and economic - so the rest of us non-Catholic shlubs just decided to go along with it.

Which is smart. :smoking:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#384

Post by AndyinPA »

https://abcnews.go.com/US/christian-sch ... d=97037899

A conflict over what it means to be Christian is forcing a school in Kansas City, Missouri, to close.

Urban Christian Academy is a private, K-8 school with an enrollment of 100 that describes itself as providing "a tuition-free, high-quality, Christ-centered education for low-income students."

The school’s mission statement has always stressed inclusivity in general terms, noting that following Jesus "opens up doors and makes room at the table." But last year it added a paragraph to its website, which read in part, "We are an affirming school. We stand with the LGBTQIA+ community and believe in their holiness. We celebrate the diversity of God's creation in all its varied and beautiful forms."

According to the school, that update prompted donors to stop contributing, many of them citing their interpretation of Christianity as the reason. Now, UCA has announced it will close at the end of the school year due to the loss of financial support.
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#385

Post by northland10 »

AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:36 am
neonzx wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:11 am
AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
We had fish Fridays in the school cafeteria after 1966 year-round. Until high-school when we could buy pizza as a substitute.. And milk shakes al a carte.
I'm sure it took time to change, and good chance it never completely went away. Fish is often highlighted on some menus here, most Fridays.

I may live in a regional bubble here with the really big deal that are the Lenten fish fries.
One of our partner parishes (Episcopal) is hosting a Lenten fish fry soon. Our rector, during the announcements yesterday, announced it and mentioned that it was something she had not seen in a while, as her recent work was in San Francisco. Apparently, the fish fry is a bit of a midwestern thing (and I assume a few other areas).

Whatever the reason it continues, I do enjoy going and getting walleye at Culver's, which is generally only available now (ah.. the Northern Europeans of Wisconsin and Minnesota).
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#386

Post by AndyinPA »

https://apnews.com/article/mormon-churc ... 46ff2762ac
The Arizona Supreme Court has ruled that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can refuse to answer questions or turn over documents under a state law that exempts religious officials from having to report child sex abuse if they learn of the crime during a confessional setting.

The ruling was issued April 7 but not released to the public until Tuesday. A lawsuit filed by child sex abuse victims accuses the church, widely known as the Mormon church, two of its bishops, and other church members of conspiracy and negligence in not reporting church member Paul Adams for abusing his older daughter as early as 2010. This negligence, the lawsuit argues, allowed Adams to continuing abusing the girl for as many as seven years, a time in which he also abused the girl’s infant sister.

Lynne Cadigan, an attorney for the Adams children who filed the lawsuit, criticized the court’s ruling.

“Unfortunately, this ruling expands the clergy privilege beyond what the legislature intended by allowing churches to conceal crimes against children,” she said.
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#387

Post by Phoenix520 »

We always went to Midnight Mass the night before. It was cozy, and usually packed. The kids were in pjs and everyone was in a good mood.
(Yeah I’m once again late)
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#388

Post by Flatpoint High »

neonzx wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:29 pm
Volkonski wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:58 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:04 am I don't remember when it changed as it didn't apply to me, but I can remember that Catholics used to not eat meat on any Fridays of the year, so that was why it was always served in school cafeterias. They had to offer it for the Catholic children.

Looking it up, it seems to have ended here in 1966.
Yes. I recall that when meatless Fridays ceased to be mandatory for Roman Catholics my high school started serving cheaper meat-based meals on Fridays.
And thus was born the legendary Salisbury steak with gravy and instant mashed potatoes. Still love it occasionally through this day. :biggrin:

Who invented the no-meat Friday deal? The fishing industry?
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#389

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... g-children
“This is child trafficking. This is kidnapping,” said Lorraine Jessop.

Several former members of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), the polygamist sect led by Warren Jeffs, are calling on law enforcement officers and prosecutors to help them find their missing children, some of whom have not been seen for years.

In a press conference in Cedar City, Utah, on Monday, the parents and their advocates say a growing number of children living with one parent who had left the church have gone missing recently. They believe their children are receiving help from current FLDS members to return to the close-knit settlements.
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#390

Post by RTH10260 »

Demons be gone: meeting America’s new exorcists
Deliverance from demons is a booming practice among evangelical Christians, promising freedom from afflictions ranging from addiction to cancer.

by Elle Hardy with photographs by Adriana Zehbrauskas
Fri 21 Apr 2023 06.00 BST

There are only three things you need to get Satan out of your life: a bucket, a pen and Brother Mike’s two-page questionnaire.

Unlike those megachurch preachers and their plastic smiles, Brother Mike Smith doesn’t make outlandish claims – not in his mind, at least. He’s not peddling “crap”, he says. As the leader of a modest ministry he calls Hardcore Christianity in downtown Phoenix, Arizona, he only claims that he can set you free from demons 100% of the time – if you follow his instructions to the letter.

Step into his headquarters, and you’ll see a dusty trophy cabinet displaying the evidence of his work with people who fought their “demonic infections”: packets of Marlboro cigarettes, empty bottles of liquor, an asthma inhaler, medical certificates proclaiming good health.

Brother Mike practices deliverance, also known as spiritual warfare. Ask most people what they think about casting out demons, and you’ll probably get cinematic references to spinning heads and flaming crucifixes. But among evangelical Christians, deliverance is serious business – and it’s big business too. Commercially minded megachurches getting in on the act is a reliable indication that it has gained real popularity, and books on the topic are now mainstays in the $1.2bn religion publishing industry. A deliverance map put together by the California preacher Isaiah Saldivar shows 1,402 practitioners operating in the US alone – an impressive feat for a concept that only reached mainstream Christianity in the 1980s.

Deliverance warriors believe that problems such as illness and poverty are the result of spiritual sickness, not earthly afflictions. Healing is sought through people like Brother Mike and his band of volunteer acolytes, who often have no theological training but welcome souls from all over the country.

Not hailing from the tradition myself, but having spent the last few years writing about Pentecostals around the world, I had some sense of what I was getting into. Because I’m an agnostic, and therefore an outsider, I was tolerated rather than welcomed with open arms, a potential soul to be saved among a broad cross-section of people who desperately wanted help.

I was a world away from the staid Catholicism I’d grown up with – and, as I came to discover, that’s entirely the point.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... s-exorcism
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#391

Post by Suranis »

We had a priest in my secondary school describe an exorcism in general terms. He said the demon showed you every bad thing you had done in your life as it faught back. He described it as like watching a movie.

If these guys are making a business of Exorcism, they aren't doing it. I've heard of peoples hair going white overnight with what it takes out of you.

Anyway, Sainthood comes to unlikely people sometimes...

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#392

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/2 ... -says.html
A federal judge says the Saucon Valley School District must allow the After School Satan Club to meet in one of its schools.

The club will be allowed to meet at the middle school on the dates previously approved by the school district. Those dates were the second Wednesday of March, April and May.

U.S. District Judge John Gallagher on Monday granted the After School Satan Club’s preliminary injunction request to meet in the schools as its full lawsuit plays out in court. The judge will make a final ruling later.

The school district revoked permission for the club to meet after “chaos” ensued, according to Superintendent Jaime Vlasaty. The controversial club drew the ire of the community and a North Carolina man allegedly threatened gun violence if the club were allowed to meet. That forced the entire school district to shut down for security reasons on Feb. 22.

The school district also said the club failed to make clear on a permission slip that the club is not sponsored by the district.

None of these reasons trump the After School Satan Club’s right to free speech and its First Amendment protections under the federal Constitution, the judge ruled.
This is in Eastern Pennsylvania.
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#393

Post by Gupwalla »

AndyinPA wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 3:45 pm The school district revoked permission for the club to meet after “chaos” ensued, according to Superintendent Jaime Vlasaty. The controversial club drew the ire of the community and a North Carolina man allegedly threatened gun violence if the club were allowed to meet. That forced the entire school district to shut down for security reasons on Feb. 22.
It sounds like maybe they need to address the local “terroristic threat” problem, and not the (apparently) peaceful high schoolers who want to drink fruit punch from a goat horn and act all dark and goth and stuff under Robert’s Rules.
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#394

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... bers-2022/
The long, slow decline of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination continues.

Membership in the Southern Baptist Convention was down by nearly half a million in 2022, according to a recently released denomination report. Nashville-based Lifeway Research reported May 9 that the SBC had 13.2 million members in 2022, down from 13.68 million in 2021. That loss of 457,371 members is the largest in more than a century, according to the Annual Church Profile compiled by Lifeway.

Once a denomination of 16.3 million, the SBC has declined by 1.5 million members since 2018, and by more than 3 million members since 2006. The covid-19 pandemic played a role in the downturn, as did the reality that as older members die off, there are fewer young people to replace them.

The denomination has also been in a constant state of crisis in recent years, including a major sex abuse scandal, controversies over race and an ongoing feud over the denomination’s leadership and future direction.

Church membership rolls had also likely been filled with people who were no longer part of the congregation.

“Much of the downward movement we are seeing in membership reflects people who stopped participating in an individual congregation years ago and the record keeping is finally catching up,” said Scott McConnell, executive director of Lifeway Research, in a statement about the report.
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#395

Post by johnpcapitalist »

AndyinPA wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:33 pm https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... bers-2022/
The long, slow decline of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination continues.

Membership in the Southern Baptist Convention was down by nearly half a million in 2022, according to a recently released denomination report. Nashville-based Lifeway Research reported May 9 that the SBC had 13.2 million members in 2022, down from 13.68 million in 2021. That loss of 457,371 members is the largest in more than a century, according to the Annual Church Profile compiled by Lifeway.

Once a denomination of 16.3 million, the SBC has declined by 1.5 million members since 2018, and by more than 3 million members since 2006. The covid-19 pandemic played a role in the downturn, as did the reality that as older members die off, there are fewer young people to replace them.

The denomination has also been in a constant state of crisis in recent years, including a major sex abuse scandal, controversies over race and an ongoing feud over the denomination’s leadership and future direction.

Church membership rolls had also likely been filled with people who were no longer part of the congregation.

“Much of the downward movement we are seeing in membership reflects people who stopped participating in an individual congregation years ago and the record keeping is finally catching up,” said Scott McConnell, executive director of Lifeway Research, in a statement about the report.
Some other details of the statistics (from the Post article and others I've read) are also interesting.

The Post says:
Even as membership dropped, attendance at worship services continues to recover from pandemic lows. Attendance was up 5 percent to 3.8 million in 2022, after falling from 4.4 million in 2020 to 3.6 million in 2021, due largely to covid-19 disruptions.

Churches reported 180,177 baptisms for 2022, up 16 percent from 2021. Like attendance, baptisms took a steep hit during the pandemic, from 235,748 in 2019 to 123,160 in 2020. Baptism numbers then began increasing in 2021.
So after a year of recovery, average weekly attendance is still well off the pre-pandemic level. There has been enough time for people to feel safe going back to church, but 10% of members don't go as often. Services via Zoom apparently weren't that compelling and a lot of people realized they were just fine without all the activities.

Average weekly attendance is only about 1/3 of registered members, even after a major purge of old records with people who are no longer members. This from a denomination that prides itself on building their focus around church participation. So 4 million active members doesn't sound like that big of a voting bloc. When you consider that Tucker Carlson's audience was only about 3 million, less than 1% of the US population, both his allies and his opponents have an outsized assessment of his importance. The same might be true of the Baptists.

Also, the number of baptisms is interesting. That's the main focus of Baptist churches. But there are over 40,000 SBC affiliated churches in the US. So each church has on average 4 baptisms per year. I saw a dive into the numbers a couple years ago that said that over half of congregations have zero baptisms every year, and only a small minority have baptisms every week. That's your future membership growth right there, and every week, when nobody comes forward to be baptized, you start to get the message that your religion is failing, if it can't attract people to the "good news." Also, the "churn rate" of new members is about 50% within three years, consistent with other high-outreach denominations. It's not clear whether that number includes baptisms of kids raised in the faith becoming adults or whether that is solely of new believers from outside the church. If the former, then the baptism stats are even worse.

While the amount of revenue they brought in was flat despite the membership drop, it sure sounds like the organization is becoming more brittle. Recent internal church political wars between the hard-liners and the "reformers" (who are only marginally less extreme than the hard-liners, by our standards) are brutal, and could lead to a schism or even a splintering into multiple denominations. That would certainly reduce their political influence as an organization, though I'm sure any splinter groups would still remain almost 100% Republican.
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#396

Post by Suranis »

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#397

Post by AndyinPA »

:lol:
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#398

Post by keith »

Left off SCATOLOGICAL.

Coffee eases the path.
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#399

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

:rotflmao:
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#400

Post by AndyinPA »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... r-verdict/
An Idaho jury on Friday unanimously found Lori Vallow Daybell guilty of murdering her daughter and son, and also guilty of conspiring to kill her husband’s first wife, as part of a cryptic religious prophecy that prosecutors said Vallow Daybell was attempting to fulfill.

The former beauty pageant contestant was charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of her two children, 16-year-old Tylee Ryan and 7-year-old Joshua Jaxon “J.J.” Vallow. She was also charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit murder in the deaths of the children and Tammy Daybell, the former wife of her fifth husband, Chad Daybell. He pleaded not guilty to the same charges as his wife and will stand trial later this year.

Prosecutors argued that the couple thought of themselves as godlike figures tasked with ridding the world of “zombie” spirits, which inhabited Vallow Daybell’s children, among others. The case’s bizarre details of a onetime beauty pageant contestant entangled in fringe “doomsday” religious beliefs and several suspicious deaths spawned a Netflix documentary series.
Mormon background.

I'd followed this case earlier, but had forgotten about it.
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