TESLA and Elon Musk - anything not elsewhere

[RTH10260]

Musk says he can't get fair trial in California, wants Texas

CHRISTOPHER RUGABER
Sat, January 7, 2023 at 9:54 PM GMT+1

WASHINGTON (AP) — Elon Musk has urged a federal judge to shift a trial in a shareholder lawsuit out of San Francisco because he says negative local media coverage has biased potential jurors against him.

Instead, in a filing submitted late Friday — less than two weeks before the trial was set to begin on Jan. 17 — Musk's lawyers argue it should be moved to the federal court in the western district of Texas. That district includes the state capital of Austin, which is where Musk relocated his electric car company, Tesla, in late 2021.

The shareholder lawsuit stems from Musk's tweets in August 2018 when he said he had sufficient financing to take Tesla private at $420 a share — an announcement that caused heavy volatility in Tesla's share price.

In a victory for the shareholders last spring, Judge Edward Chen ruled that Musk’s tweets were false and reckless.

If moving the trial isn’t possible, Musk’s lawyers want it postponed until negative publicity regarding the billionaire’s purchase of Twitter has died down.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/musk-says-ca ... 03807.html

[Dave from down under]

With rights come responsibilities and consequences.

[Sam the Centipede]

Haven't J6 defendants tried similar "too soon! too close!" arguments … and found courts unsympathetic?

[humblescribe]

Isn't the Western District of Texas where that Trump-sympathetic judge hangs out in Amarillo? And litigants can choose the judge?

I am all for a change in venue, Elmo. Seattle, Portland OR, and Manhattan come to mind.

[Azastan]

Postponing the trial until the negative publicity dies down means the trial will never take p!ace, because Elon Reeve Musk will keep kicking that wasp's nest to make sure that those aculeatids are always buzzing.

[MN-Skeptic]

As one of the judges in a Jan 6 court case said, this is why the lawyers can accept or reject jurors. If they do their job correctly, you will have a unbiased jury. (I'm not a lawyer, so I probably have that somewhat wrong, but you get the gist.)

[raison de arizona]

Elon Musk has lost so much money that the Guinness World Records recognized him for the 'largest loss of personal fortune in history'

Elon Musk has kicked off 2023 by breaking a world record — for money lost.

The Tesla and Twitter CEO erased so much of his fortune in the last year that Guinness World Records recognized him for it. He's officially broken the world record for the "largest loss of personal fortune in history," the organization said in a press release Friday.

Forbes recently estimated Musk's net worth had plummeted by $183 billion in just over a year, while Bloomberg placed the estimate at $200 billion.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-mu ... sla-2023-1

[Luke]

Brutal.

Elon Musk Fan With 2,900% Gain Sees $1.5 Million Wiped Away
JANUARY 12, 2023 • CLAIRE BALLENTINE

Doug Coyle’s son told him to sell the shares.The 68-year-old retired landscaper first started investing in Tesla Inc. in 2012 after hearing about Elon Musk, who wasn’t nearly as famous at the time. Over the next decade he put about $100,000 into the stock, and his investment value ballooned to about $3 million at the peak in November 2021. Then came the plunge, as the pandemic-era tech bubble began to unwind. Coyle’s son, who got into trading during the 2020 retail frenzy, implored him to sell. But he held on, believing in Tesla’s long term potential. He’s now lost about $1.5 million in paper gains.“It just all started falling down,” said Coyle, who lives in North Carolina.

Tesla investors who stayed loyal to Musk over the years are facing a brutal collapse. After a decade of gains that catapulted the company’s market value to more than $1 trillion and made Musk the world’s richest man, the stock dropped 65% last year, with rising interest rates slamming the tech sector and ending a bull run for stocks. In some ways, Tesla was the original meme stock. Back when GameStop Corp. was just a failing video game outlet, an ecosystem of YouTube channels, podcasts and Reddit threads from amateur analysts fostered a devoted community of Musk followers who made a fortune betting on the company’s clean-energy mission and visionary chief executive.

Now, those high-flying days appear to be over. Musk’s controversial Twitter acquisition has rattled investor confidence. He’s sold billions worth of Tesla stock to fund the purchase, and is spending more time running the social media site and tweeting controversial takes on everything from politics and birth rates to the war in Ukraine. Tesla’s share price has slipped 37% since Dec. 1 and the stock is now trading around $123, down from more than $400 at the top.

Down to Earth
For Musk fans, it’s hard to believe the difference a year makes. Michael Williams, a 49-year-old trader in Utah, first started buying the company’s shares in 2018 and used complicated options strategies to make supersized bets. He admits he got lucky. Using calls, he turned about $3,000 in his Robinhood account into “several hundred thousand.” Then he took it a step further, piling about 90% of his 401(k) into Tesla. Soon $40,000 became $800,000. It didn’t last. In the middle of 2021, Williams made a couple of bad trades, first losing $600,000 and then $200,000. Now, the value of his 401(k) is down to about $300,000. And that Robinhood account? It has about $50 in it.Williams, who works in telecommunications, has sold about half his shares in Tesla, but now plans to slowly build his stake again. He still believes in Musk, though he says the billionaire is prone to “doing dumb things.”

Final Straws
Adrian Mora in Denver bought his first Tesla shares in July 2022 after hearing hype around the electric Semi trucks the company started delivering late last year. The 42-year-old, who works for the Department of Veteran Affairs, had recently sold his house and decided to put the money — about $210,000 — into Tesla. His shares have since dropped about 70% in value, and he’s considering selling what’s left. “This is my whole life savings,” he said. “I come from a Hispanic family, and you always hear that my people never get ahead because we never invest. But now I see there’s a good reason my people never invest — you can lose all your money.”

For Karim Jovian in New York, this year will be crucial in determining whether Tesla can mount a turnaround. The 29-year-old content creator started investing in the car company in 2020 after hearing other social media stars talking up Tesla and its potential. He jumped in after the stock plunged at the start of the pandemic. With about 80% of his net worth in the stock now, he’s worried about all the drama surrounding Musk and how that will affect the share price. “He talks too much, it’s like, ‘Please shut up,’” Jovian said about the CEO. “I’m definitely considering selling.”

Loyal Fans
Of course, there are some success stories from Tesla traders who got out at the right time. Doug Coyle’s son Dennis bought $20,000 worth of the company’s stock following the March 2020 crash, a sum that ballooned to $60,000 by July 2021. So the 36-year-old living in New Jersey decided to take that out and use it for a down payment on a $380,000 home in southern New Jersey that he calls his “Tesla house.” He’s been slowly building back his position since then, and plans to put another $20,000 in when the share price drops to $85 or $80. Like father, like son. His dad Doug has faith in Tesla as a company and takes heart in predictions from Ark Investment Management’s Cathie Wood, a longtime believer in the stock whose firm recently said the price will rise to at least $500 by 2026. However, he does wish that Musk “would keep his mouth shut.” “I’m still behind it 100%,” Coyle said. “He's made me a wealthy person.”

This was a paywall Bloomberg story, but it appears this site has reprint rights https://www.fa-mag.com/ https://www.fa-mag.com/news/elon-musk-f ... 71472.html

[MN-Skeptic]

And this is why Americans require the certainty of Social Security.

I've seen plenty of right wing posters declaring that we should do away with Social Security. They, of course, insist they would have huge portfolios for retirement if they were just allowed to instead keep the money they are paying into Social Security and be allowed to invest it. But you and I know that they would be suckers for stocks such as Tesla and "investments" such as cryptocurrencies. And some of them don't learn! Even after losing thousands on Tesla - or whatever their magic stock is - they will pour more money into it.

[tek]

The 42-year-old, who works for the Department of Veteran Affairs, had recently sold his house and decided to put the money — about $210,000 — into Tesla. His shares have since dropped about 70% in value, and he’s considering selling what’s left. “This is my whole life savings,” he said.

Huh. Brilliant.

[raison de arizona]

The 42-year-old, who works for the Department of Veteran Affairs, had recently sold his house and decided to put the money — about $210,000 — into Tesla. His shares have since dropped about 70% in value, and he’s considering selling what’s left. “This is my whole life savings,” he said.

Huh. Brilliant.

Don't wager more than you can afford to lose, as they say.

[Azastan]

The 42-year-old, who works for the Department of Veteran Affairs, had recently sold his house and decided to put the money — about $210,000 — into Tesla. His shares have since dropped about 70% in value, and he’s considering selling what’s left. “This is my whole life savings,” he said.

Huh. Brilliant.

Don't wager more than you can afford to lose, as they say.

Mind you, he's only 'considering' selling the remaining shares, not that he has sold them.

[humblescribe]

And this is why Americans require the certainty of Social Security.

I've seen plenty of right wing posters declaring that we should do away with Social Security. They, of course, insist they would have huge portfolios for retirement if they were just allowed to instead keep the money they are paying into Social Security and be allowed to invest it. But you and I know that they would be suckers for stocks such as Tesla and "investments" such as cryptocurrencies. And some of them don't learn! Even after losing thousands on Tesla - or whatever their magic stock is - they will pour more money into it.

Do you know how many clients that I have had over the years who tap into their 401(k) plans for non-retirement reasons? Lots. They see the $$$$ accumulating in these accounts and think that they can take out 20-30K (or more) for a new car. Or for a down payment on a cabin in the mountains. When I get their stuff, the conversation goes like this:

Me: You do know that you are going to have to pay taxes on this early distribution.
Client: But I had taxes taken out! See! (Shows me the 1099R)
Me: Your distribution was $40,000 and you had $4,000 federal and $1,000 California withheld.
Client: So, the taxes are all paid!
Me: No, this $40,000 increase in taxable income places you squarely in the 22% bracket federal and 8% bracket California. Then since you are 48 years old, you owe another 10% penalty (federal) and 2.5% penalty (California) for an early distribution from a qualified plan. When I do the math, 22%+8%+10%+2.5% = 42.5%. So, your taxes will increase by about $17,000, and you had $5,000 withheld. Since you usually receive small refunds each year, it looks like you'll have to cough up around $12,000 before April 15.
Client: But I don't have that money. I spent it. I will have to withdraw another $18,000 from my 401(k) this year to pay my tax?
Me: Yes, and remember you will still pay income taxes and penalties on that $18,000.
Client:

[raison de arizona]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[Gregg]

The 42-year-old, who works for the Department of Veteran Affairs, had recently sold his house and decided to put the money — about $210,000 — into Tesla. His shares have since dropped about 70% in value, and he’s considering selling what’s left. “This is my whole life savings,” he said.

Huh. Brilliant.

Not to worry, he plans to make it all back in crypto.

[MN-Skeptic]

Do you know how many clients that I have had over the years who tap into their 401(k) plans for non-retirement reasons? Lots. They see the $$$$ accumulating in these accounts and think that they can take out 20-30K (or more) for a new car. Or for a down payment on a cabin in the mountains.

Plus the fact that if you leave the company, you probably are expected to pay that loan back immediately. Not great if the company has downsized you. Or if it's going through bankruptcy and all the stock you've owned in the 401(k) is now worthless, ala Enron.

Many years ago I was in my company's tax department when we were creating our initial 401(k) plan. My boss - the Director of Taxes - worked with our legal department on the details. One thing our 401(k) plan did NOT include was a provision to borrow funds from your account. While a plan could include that provision, it was not a requirement, and, as my boss told me, our 401(k) plan was for saving for retirement and that was it. Of course, all the original authors are long since gone from the company so I imagine that the plan is more mainstream now, but I thought made a lot of sense to omit the loan provision.

[pipistrelle]

When I was younger and poorer, I liked the loan option for an emergency (e.g., medical). I never thought of using a loan just to get something. My parents were Depression-era kids, so I've always had in the back of my mind not to get anything I can't pay fore, and not to borrow. Probably not ideal, but it would never occur to me to put 401(k) money in one bucket.

[Dave from down under]

Off topic but..

Superannuation in Australia

In Australia, superannuation, or just super, is the term for retirement pension benefit funds. Employers make compulsory contributions into these funds on behalf of their employees.

Superannuation is compulsory for all employed people working and residing in Australia. The total balance of a person's superannuation is then used to provide an income stream upon reaching retirement. Federal law dictates minimum amounts that employers must contribute to the super accounts of their employees, on top of standard wages or salaries.

Most employees have their super contributed to large funds - either industry funds (not-for-profit mutual funds, managed by boards composed of industry stakeholders), or retail funds (for-profit commercial funds, principally managed by financial institutions). However, some Australians can have their super deposited into self-managed superannuation funds.

The Australian Government outlines a set percentage of employee income that should be paid into a super account. Since July 2002, this rate has increased from 9% to 10% in July 2021, and will stop increasing at 12% in July 2025. Employees are also encouraged to supplement compulsory superannuation contributions with voluntary contributions, including diverting their wages or salary income into superannuation contributions under so-called salary sacrifice arrangements.

An individual can withdraw funds out of a superannuation fund when the person meets one of the conditions of release, such as retirement, terminal medical condition, or permanent incapacity, contained in Schedule 1 of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Regulations 1994. As of 1 July 2018, members have also been able to withdraw voluntary contributions made as part of the First Home Super Saver Scheme (FHSS).

As of 30 March 2022, Australians have AU$3.5 trillion invested as superannuation assets, making Australia the 4th largest holder of pension fund assets in the world.

more at the following that the above is from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannu ... _Australia

[jcolvin2]

Off topic but..

Superannuation in Australia

I've had a handful of Australians as clients in my tax law practice over the years. But I think they have all had Superannuation funds.

[Gregg]

Do you know how many clients that I have had over the years who tap into their 401(k) plans for non-retirement reasons? Lots. They see the $$$$ accumulating in these accounts and think that they can take out 20-30K (or more) for a new car. Or for a down payment on a cabin in the mountains.

Plus the fact that if you leave the company, you probably are expected to pay that loan back immediately. Not great if the company has downsized you. Or if it's going through bankruptcy and all the stock you've owned in the 401(k) is now worthless, ala Enron.

Many years ago I was in my company's tax department when we were creating our initial 401(k) plan. My boss - the Director of Taxes - worked with our legal department on the details. One thing our 401(k) plan did NOT include was a provision to borrow funds from your account. While a plan could include that provision, it was not a requirement, and, as my boss told me, our 401(k) plan was for saving for retirement and that was it. Of course, all the original authors are long since gone from the company so I imagine that the plan is more mainstream now, but I thought made a lot of sense to omit the loan provision.

If you take a taxable early withdrawal you don't have to pay it back. If you do take a loan you don't pay any tax on it but if you lose your job you may have to either pay back the balance or incur the tax plus penalty on the balance if you don't pay it back. Some plans will allow you to continue to make payments on the loan if you leave the job, but I think that is rare. Our plan allows it.

[humblescribe]

Gregg is absolutely, positively, one-hunnert percent right. The repayment of loans must be within five years with interest and monthly payments conveniently deducted from one's net pay. (There may be alternate provisions, but I always discouraged anyone from grabbing more than they can repay within 24 months.)

[Gregg]

Also, balances owed or taken during a certain time period around the pandemic were granted a grace period on some of those loans, it's kind of complicated.

[RTH10260]

Elon Musk and Tesla owners are learning a harsh lesson about revaluation

Steve Mollman
Sat, January 14, 2023 at 9:24 PM GMT+1

Investors nervous about Tesla’s future were not likely assuaged by the company slashing prices as much as 20% on Thursday. Aside from angering customers who felt “duped” after buying vehicles at earlier prices, the move has many Tesla watchers sulking about revaluation and the perceived miscues of both the company and its mercurial CEO Elon Musk.

Earlier this month, Tesla posted deliveries that fell short of Wall Street’s expectations, despite offering discounts to U.S. consumers.

Brianna Wu, a software engineer and former congressional candidate, shared her thoughts in a Friday Twitter thread on Tesla’s price slashing and its implications.

Wu has been something of a thorn in Musk’s side. Last month, she dared him to post a Twitter poll asking if people wanted him to resign as Twitter CEO amid his chaotic revamp of the social network. He did so, and a majority of respondents said he should. He then promised to resign once he finds someone “foolish enough to take the job.”




https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon ... 15103.html

(original Fortune)

[raison de arizona]

35F231F2-1C8F-4355-B519-C91258F33470.png (113.19 KiB) Viewed 432 times

[neeneko]

I wonder if price cuts would have much of an effect on Tesla's target market. They are a 'premium' brand, you are already paying a pretty heft price for something which value is in how it does something, not what it does. So this is not a very price conscious group in the first place.