Fogbow

filly wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:01 pm A huge problem with this discussion is that the Defendant’s advocate does not know what the word “evidence “ means in the context of a legal proceeding.

andersweinstein wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:00 amthat just on its face, abundant evidence strongly suggests he was no kind of extremist, had no hostility to the protestors, but was a purely defensive shooter acting out of genuine fear for his life.

But it looks to me like a lot of the pushback is coming from people who are just not that informed on the facts

bob wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:41 pm
Self-defense cases are about circumstantial evidence, i.e., what evidence suggests a fear of immediate harm, and credibility, i.e., I believe the defendant did honestly fear even if those fears may have been unreasonable.

How this kind of evidence is interpreted is highly dependent on who is doing the interpreting -- different people can interpret and weigh the same evidence differently. Reasonable people acknowledge other reasonable people might have differing views; unreasonable people insist there is only one correct view.

Dave from down under wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:28 pm Let’s assume that the criminal case against him fails.

Can he be sued for wrongful death?

If so - can his bail money be the target?

Dave from down under wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:41 pm Thanks

The reason I asked about the bail money is that I assume that would be only identifiable asset until he gets book deals and paid appearances.

Dave from down under wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:28 pm Let’s assume that the criminal case against him fails.

Can he be sued for wrongful death?

If so - can his bail money be the target?

Dave from down under wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:23 pm may the grifters fight it out in court for decades..

He Repped Kyle Rittenhouse, MAGA Monkey Owners… and Capitol Rioters
“He’s not a defense attorney, and therefore he’s not an especially good defense attorney,” one journalist who has covered lawyer John Pierce’s filings said.
Will Sommer Politics Reporter
Updated Aug. 02, 2021 11:11AM ET / Published Aug. 02, 2021 3:50AM ET

The U.S. Capitol riot launched one of the largest investigations in Justice Department history, with hundreds of defendants now facing charges. But the lawyer who’s put himself at the center of nearly 20 of the legal defenses has plenty of problems of his own—from a bizarre legal strategy and looming debts to a struggling case defending a handful of chimpanzees.

Once a high-flying civil attorney, lawyer John Pierce has reinvented himself, in the face of mountains of debt, as a go-to lawyer for conservative causes célèbres. After being fired from representing accused Kenosha, Wisconsin, murder suspect Kyle Rittenhouse over a financial dispute, Pierce has become perhaps the most public legal face of the Jan. 6 defense, representing more than a dozen clients as he tries out unorthodox legal strategies and jousts with his critics on Twitter. But even as his star rises on the right, Pierce has been undermined by a bizarre tweet appearing to threaten federal officials, an employee facing felony charges for allegedly defrauding a grandmother, and his own financial woes. Pierce declined to comment.

Pierce now represents at least 17 of the Jan. 6 defendants, more than any other lawyer. His clients include Proud Boy William Pepe and L. Brent Bozell IV, the son of conservative media commentator L. Brent Bozell III. Pierce also represents Ryan Samsel, an accused rioter identified by prosecutors as the man caught on video consulting with a top Proud Boy leader before attacking police officers in the riot’s first minutes.

“We are going to take every one of these cases to trial, we are going to seek full acquittals, and in that process we are going to find out what actually happened on Jan. 6,” Pierce said at a June rally in support of the riot defendants. In one court hearing, Pierce said he would pursue a “public authority defense”—an unusual legal tactic sometimes used by informants that would see him argue that his clients believed that the government, in the form of Donald Trump, had legally sanctioned their law-breaking.

... we are going to seek full acquittals ...

Off Topic

Yesterday at the Seattle Zoo I really did convince a three year old boy that the hippos were "out of gas" and we needed to take them to the gas station. "See how they're not moving?"

So he told his mom (my niece), "Mom, we have to take the hippos to the gas station."

My work here is done.

Foggy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:12 am

Off Topic

Yesterday at the Seattle Zoo I really did convince a three year old boy that the hippos were "out of gas" and we needed to take them to the gas station. "See how they're not moving?"

So he told his mom (my niece), "Mom, we have to take the hippos to the gas station."

My work here is done.

Off Topic

You are one of those bad uncles, making problems.

Action Zealandia, NZ's largest neo-Nazi group, on the hunt for new recruits

This week, in an attempt to claim August 9 as "White Lives Matter Day", the group's leaders demanded that all of its chapters do banner drops and poster runs in the days leading up to August 9.

Action Zealandia members attempted to plaster "White Lives Matter" and "Kyle Rittenhouse Was Right" posters in the Dunedin City Centre in June, but fled the area after they were approached by members of the public. (Kyle Rittenhouse was a 17-year-old American charged with shooting and killing two protesters at a Black Lives Matter protest in Wisconsin in 2020). Action Zealandia does not currently have a Dunedin presence — but it has in the past, and it wants to become more active in the city.

The Milo Fund LLC was organized by Wendy Rittenhouse to receive and disburse donations to pay for Kyle's defense.

The father of a protester shot and killed by Kyle Rittenhouse has sued the city, county and law enforcement agencies of Kenosha for allowing the teen and hundreds of other vigilantes to patrol the streets.

“If a Black person had approached police with an assault rifle, offering to patrol the streets with the police, he most likely would have been shot dead,” the lawsuit states. “If a Black child had shot three citizens with an assault rifle and was seen walking away from the scene of the shooting with the assault rifle in hand, while other citizens yelled he was an active shooter, he would have been shot dead.

It continues, "In none of these circumstances would defendants have permitted the individual to roam the streets, illegally and heavily armed, shoot civilians, and then walk past a dozen officers, talk to them, and simply go home.”

busterbunker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:38 pm And today in history:

Father of man killed in Kenosha protest accuses cops of conspiring with militia members

https://www.courthousenews.com/father-o ... a-members/

The father of a protester shot and killed by Kyle Rittenhouse has sued the city, county and law enforcement agencies of Kenosha for allowing the teen and hundreds of other vigilantes to patrol the streets.

“If a Black person had approached police with an assault rifle, offering to patrol the streets with the police, he most likely would have been shot dead,” the lawsuit states. “If a Black child had shot three citizens with an assault rifle and was seen walking away from the scene of the shooting with the assault rifle in hand, while other citizens yelled he was an active shooter, he would have been shot dead.

It continues, "In none of these circumstances would defendants have permitted the individual to roam the streets, illegally and heavily armed, shoot civilians, and then walk past a dozen officers, talk to them, and simply go home.”

Dave from down under wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:33 pm What is the strengths/weaknesses of this filing?

KENOSHA, Wis. - Prosecutors say recently found video shows Kyle Rittenhouse talking about firing his assault rifle weeks before the fatal shootings in Kenosha, and they are fighting to get that video entered as evidence.

Preparing for the November homicide trial, Kenosha County prosecutors filed new motions the week of Sunday, Aug. 15, saying the video found earlier in the month could be important evidence. However, the judge would first need to allow it.
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In a 29-second video taken outside of a CVS, a person is heard off-camera talking about firing an assault rifle because he thinks people are shoplifting.

"Bro, I wish I had my (expletive) AR. I'd start shooting rounds at them," the person says.

Prosecutors say the CVS video was taken 15 days before the shootings and can help prove intent. Arguing in a court filing:

"The defendant saw something, jumped to a conclusion based on exactly zero facts, and threatened to kill someone based on baseless assumption and wrongful interpretation."

Prosecutors went on to write:

"The video also demonstrates that the defendant fervently sought to insert himself as an armed vigilante into situations that had nothing to do with him."

In a second motion, Binger asks Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder to compel Rittenhouse to turn over the names of anyone who has donated to his legal defense, $2 million bail or purchased "Free Kyle" merchandise through his family's web site.

Those people, he argues, should not be allowed to serve on the jury for Rittenhouse's trial, currently scheduled for Nov. 1.

Binger said it would be fine if a master list were given only to Schroeder, and then if only names from Kenosha County were shared with the prosecution, which he said might want to further investigate whether those people or family or associates wind up in the pool of potential jurors.

Hoodlum
@NotHoodlum
·
8m
Kyle Rittenhouse’s attorney, John Pierce who said he would never get the vaccine, even if forced to - is on a ventilator and non-responsive. Thoughtless prayers.

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:58 am And he represents a bunch of the January 6 defendants. I assume those people are going to have to get new counsel.