Kyle Rittenhouse, previous owner of a Smith & Wesson M&P15

[raison de arizona]

Whelp, I guess they just declared open season on protestors. The ammo-sexuals are going to feel mighty empowered.

[Slim Cognito]

I've been expecting it for three days. Still feel like I was kicked in the gut.

[RVInit]

He was not overcharged. There were lesser included for virtually every charge. I am certain there was at least one holdout for conviction because the prosecution wrapped the evidence to convict in a bow and handed it to the jury. It should have been straight convictions (possibly struggle as to Huber) within one day. The fact that it took three and a half days means there was discussion with at least one person who wanted to convict. And I think that person(s) probably said fuck it. If my fellow Kenoshans want to encourage open season in their own city, I will let them, go home on a Friday, and not have to try to reason with unreasonable people any more.

[Uninformed]

Provoke a person with no witnesses present, run away (preferably in the presence of witnesses), hope they chase you with apparent malice, shoot them in self-defence. No case to answer. Yay!

[TheNewSaint]

This should sadden and frighten us all but should not surprise anyone who's been following the trial.

[Ben-Prime]

I can't help but wonder how the laws will change or be unevenly applied when the armed status vs political stance pictures are flipped. I mean, I know I'm not alone in this.

[LM K]

I've been expecting it for three days. Still feel like I was kicked in the gut.

Right!

[RVInit]

Yeah. This is not a good outcome. I'm sure Rittenhouse is all happy and relieved, but he will be in for a rude awakening when he tries to go back to the Antioch Police Department or tries to get any job. He will be relegated to working for mom and pop operations where the owners are rwnjs. No corporation will hire him. No police department will hire him, especially after he testified that the Antioch PD issued him the bullet proof vest and they wasted no time in denying it on their social media accounts. Also, he will not get into any nursing, med tech, EMT, or other medical program. They won't be interested in having vigilante types that walk around with ARs while asking people if they need medical help. His happiness over this outcome will soon give way to reality. Not right away, he will be celebrated for his 15 minutes first.

[LM K]

Whelp, I guess they just declared open season on protestors. The ammo-sexuals are going to feel mighty empowered.

Added to vocabulary.

[RVInit]

Remember how long Zimmerman's hero status lasted? Rittenhouse's status as hero will last until the next rwnj vigilante makes the news. Then, all that money being donated to Rittenhouse will go to the new hero.

[neeneko]

His happiness over this outcome will soon give way to reality. Not right away, he will be celebrated for his 15 minutes first.

I don't know.. our society has a remarkable ability to forgive and forget white men.

[MN-Skeptic]

Yeah. This is not a good outcome. I'm sure Rittenhouse is all happy and relieved, but he will be in for a rude awakening when he tries to go back to the Antioch Police Department or tries to get any job. He will be relegated to working for mom and pop operations where the owners are rwnjs. No corporation will hire him. No police department will hire him, especially after he testified that the Antioch PD issued him the bullet proof vest and they wasted no time in denying it on their social media accounts. Also, he will not get into any nursing, med tech, EMT, or other medical program. They won't be interested in having vigilante types that walk around with ARs while asking people if they need medical help. His happiness over this outcome will soon give way to reality. Not right away, he will be celebrated for his 15 minutes first.

I was thinking about this verdict and Rittenhouse's future and the presence of Karma.

I'm a great believer in Karma, but more as a result to how you lead your life. A corollary is You make your own luck. Thinking about the time my husband's company had cutbacks and my husband's job was eliminated. My husband was a larger than life, outgoing, technically knowledgeable person with the gift of explaining that technology to others. He was perfect as a corporate product support instructor, then as a technical sales presenter. He was born with that talent, but worked to be better. He made his own luck. When his job was eliminated, a sales manager from a different region hired him. Some would say my husband was lucky. Maybe. But, more so, my sweetie had made his own luck by befriending so many people within the company who could see his worth.

That said, Rittenhouse has shown us exactly who he is. The world now knows. All future employers know. The chances of luck smiling on his is slim. Oh, he may get hired by some rwnj, but Rittenhouse is going nowhere in his life. All of his real luck will be bad. Karma will be ever present in his future, and not in a good way. But it is because Rittenhouse is who he is.

[TheNewSaint]

Don't worry, everyone, conservative America is still the victims in all this:



WTF can you even say to this? The only mob I saw was a few heavily-armed RWNJs who wanted him acquitted.

[LM K]

Yeah. This is not a good outcome. I'm sure Rittenhouse is all happy and relieved, but he will be in for a rude awakening when he tries to go back to the Antioch Police Department or tries to get any job. He will be relegated to working for mom and pop operations where the owners are rwnjs. No corporation will hire him. No police department will hire him, especially after he testified that the Antioch PD issued him the bullet proof vest and they wasted no time in denying it on their social media accounts. Also, he will not get into any nursing, med tech, EMT, or other medical program. They won't be interested in having vigilante types that walk around with ARs while asking people if they need medical help. His happiness over this outcome will soon give way to reality. Not right away, he will be celebrated for his 15 minutes first.

For at least 4-5 years, in person college courses are not an option unless he can afford to go to college out of state.

There are enough rwnjs to give him 10 mins of fame, but at his age, they won't embrace him into their communities on any serious basis.

I hope he's smart enough to not use his AR anywhere someone can film or take pictures. He has the legal right to his firearm. But he will make his social options so much worse.

I wonder what Grosskreutz is thinking.

[RVInit]

I was thinking about this verdict and Rittenhouse's future and the presence of Karma.

I'm a great believer in Karma, but more as a result to how you lead your life. A corollary is You make your own luck. Thinking about the time my husband's company had cutbacks and my husband's job was eliminated. My husband was a larger than life, outgoing, technically knowledgeable person with the gift of explaining that technology to others. He was perfect as a corporate product support instructor, then as a technical sales presenter. He was born with that talent, but worked to be better. He made his own luck. When his job was eliminated, a sales manager from a different region hired him. Some would say my husband was lucky. Maybe. But, more so, my sweetie had made his own luck by befriending so many people within the company who could see his worth.

That said, Rittenhouse has shown us exactly who he is. The world now knows. All future employers know. The chances of luck smiling on his is slim. Oh, he may get hired by some rwnj, but Rittenhouse is going nowhere in his life. All of his real luck will be bad. Karma will be ever present in his future, and not in a good way. But it is because Rittenhouse is who he is.

Well said. Rittenhouse has poor judgment, I think this trial made that abundantly clear. He will continue using poor judgment.

He will continue being associated with white supremacists, either because he agrees with them, or stupidly getting sucked in to making what everyone who has social media knows is the new white supremacist sign - the "OK" sign. All good society will steer clear of him and he will be left with only the dregs and militia types accepting him. Even if he never belonged to a militia before, he will end up joining a militia because normal people who collect guns or hunt and are responsible won't be attracted to making friends with him. I think given his poor judgment, pariah status among reasonable people, he's probably likely to find solace only in the white supremacist/militia crowd. Maybe he could get lucky and someone decent might try to take him under their wing and help him make better choices, like Balch tried to do on the night of, but I'm not sure that's really likely.

[LM K]

Remember how long Zimmerman's hero status lasted? Rittenhouse's status as hero will last until the next rwnj vigilante makes the news. Then, all that money being donated to Rittenhouse will go to the new hero.

So next week?

I hope the verdict in the McMichael x 2 and Bryan, who murdered Ahmed Arbery, tips the scale against vigilante justice.

[pipistrelle]

I don’t agree with this person at all. But IANAL.

[MN-Skeptic]

Rittenhouse has poor judgment, I think this trial made that abundantly clear. He will continue using poor judgment.

He also has poor impulse control. And undoubtedly a belief that It's Their Fault. He's a victim, others are to blame. Just not attributes an employer is looking for in an employee.

[RVInit]

[John Thomas8]

Sigh.

[Atticus Finch]

Now I know where OJ's jurors gone to after their verdict.

[Maybenaut]

I don’t agree with this person at all. But IANAL.

I think it’s a valid criticism. The burden was on the State. It’s obvious from the verdict that the State didn’t meet the burden.

Unlike the Bundy truck dude, I don’t think jury nullification is all that clear in this case. I think the issue really was in the proof.

But here’s the thing. I’m shocked at the number of convictions we actually get in this country. If proof beyond a reasonable doubt really means what juries are instructed that it means, hardly anyone would ever get convicted. But they do. All the time. I think juries actually apply a preponderance-of-the-evidence (more likely than not) standard in many cases even though they’re properly instructed about reasonable doubt. I think they shift the burden to the defense even though they’re instructed that ghe government has the burden and the burden never shifts.

[andersweinstein]

Public Defendering, Esq:

He was over charged and they under proved as a result. This is what happens when the state gets cocky, they over charge a defendant and fail to meet their burden then defendant is acquitted.

I am puzzled by this. The jury must have achieved consensus that prosecution didn't meet their burden of disproving perfect self-defense. But perfect self-defense would still be a defense against lesser included offenses. So lesser degree homicide charges should still fail: none of them reduce the prosecutor's burden to disprove perfect self-defense. Isn't that right?

I would have thought the state was always playing a weak evidential hand for disproving self-defense. Originally, they didn't even have that drone footage so they started with even less. They didn't even indicate they were going to argue Rittenhouse provoked in their opening.

[MN-Skeptic]

What's the probability of success for the man maimed by Rittenhouse and/or the families of the men killed by Rittenhouse in a civil suit against Rittenhouse and/or his mother?

[bob]

NPR: Protester shot by Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha is now suing Wisconsin authorities:

Gaige Grosskreutz, who was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse during racial justice protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin last year, is suing the city, the county and several law enforcement officers, claiming they condoned the efforts of white nationalists to violently dispel demonstrators protesting a police shooting.

* * *

According to Grosskreutz's federal lawsuit filed in the Eastern District of Wisconsin on Thursday, authorities in Kenosha not only knew that armed vigilantes planned to patrol the protest attended by Black Lives Matter supporters, but also encouraged their participation.

This suit is unlikely to succeed. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was a confidential settlement.

* * *

What's the probability of success for the man maimed by Rittenhouse and/or the families of the men killed by Rittenhouse in a civil suit against Rittenhouse and/or his mother?

I think it is relatively low because they are low-value defendants, i.e., they aren't rich. It'll take a substantial amount of lawyerly time (read: money) to obtain and then collect on a judgment.