Fogbow

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am**

I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office. He was impeached for his actions on J6, but not convicted.

As we have learned over the years, a convicted felon can be elected president; it's a special position in our Constitution. And if he commits treason or other "high crimes" the only remedy is impeachment.

So IMHO, don't get your hopes up that he'll be charged with a criminal offense for anything he did on J6.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:39 am**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am
So IMHO, don't get your hopes up that he'll be charged with a criminal offense for anything he did on J6.

Yeabut….

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:53 am**

Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:33 am If anyone is paywall blocked, here's a gift link. WaPo is the one subscription I kept. Hope it works.

https://wapo.st/3PGepPo

Justice Dept. investigating Trump’s actions in Jan. 6 criminal probe
People familiar with the probe said investigators are examining the former president’s conversations and have seized phone records of top aides

By Carol D. Leonnig, Devlin Barrett, Josh Dawsey and Spencer S. Hsu
Updated July 26, 2022 at 7:47 p.m. EDT|Published July 26, 2022 at 6:58 p.m. EDT

The Justice Department is investigating President Donald Trump’s actions as part of its criminal probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, according to four people familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors who are questioning witnesses before a grand jury — including two top aides to Vice President Mike Pence — have asked in recent days about conversations with Trump, his lawyers, and others in his inner circle who sought to substitute Trump allies for certified electors from some states Joe Biden won, according to two people familiar with the matter. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

The prosecutors have asked hours of detailed questions about meetings Trump led in December 2020 and January 2021; his pressure campaign on Pence to overturn the election; and what instructions Trump gave his lawyers and advisers about fake electors and sending electors back to the states, the people said. Some of the questions focused directly on the extent of Trump’s involvement in the fake-elector effort led by his outside lawyers, including John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani, these people said.

In addition, Justice Department investigators in April received phone records of key officials and aides in the Trump administration, including his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, according to two people familiar with the matter. That effort is another indicator of how expansive the Jan. 6 probe had become, well before the high-profile, televised House hearings in June and July on the subject.

The Washington Post and other news organizations have previously written that the Justice Department is examining the conduct of Eastman, Giuliani and others in Trump’s orbit. But the degree of prosecutors’ interest in Trump’s actions has not been previously reported, nor has the review of senior Trump aides’ phone records.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:58 am**

Breaking news: The Justice Department is investigating President Donald Trump’s actions as part of its criminal probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, according to four people familiar with the matter.

Which is why dingbat was crying about all the crime in DC last night. He's petrified.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:11 am**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office. He was impeached for his actions on J6, but not convicted.

As we have learned over the years, a convicted felon can be elected president; it's a special position in our Constitution. And if he commits treason or other "high crimes" the only remedy is impeachment.

So IMHO, don't get your hopes up that he'll be charged with a criminal offense for anything he did on J6.

Well he did try to get wisconsin to overturn their results against last week.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:22 am**

I think it is now well past the point that if tfg is not effectively “neutered” and never holds (any) office again, his utterly remorseless revenge and maliciousness will be something to behold.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:19 pm**

Dr. Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:11 am
Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office.
Well he did try to get wisconsin to overturn their results against last week.

Absolutely, and he committed many crimes both before and after he was in office, for which he can, and absolutely should be prosecuted.

My personal preference is not to put him in prison, but to make him live under a freeway bridge in a refrigerator box. The food is too nice for him in prison and they have medical care.

But please don't anyone tell me there's a lot of really strong evidence that he committed crimes while he was in office, because

it doesn't matter if there's video of him shooting someone. I'm pretty sure he can't be prosecuted for anything he did while in office, so your evidence is really interesting. Maybe you can use it for somebody else.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:39 pm**

https://www.wonkette.com/-2657745267

Dare We Dream That Donald Trump Could At Last Be Well And Truly F*cked?
by (MY FAVORITE) Evan Hurst

Last night, the Washington Post dropped a totally different kind of scoop, namely that Trump is most certainly under criminal investigation. This comes the same week that Republican Senator Chuck Grassley has been swearing up and down that a real live whistleblower at the real live FBI is coming forward to allege that there is a real live conspiracy at the FBI and DOJ to hide bad stuff about Hunter Biden. The timing of that fake propaganda story suddenly makes more sense.

It also came the same night as the New York Times let us know it has texts of all Trump's lawyers taking notes on the fake electors conspiracy. As Wonkette noted in its post about that, if Times reporter Marge Haberman has those texts, Merrick Garland almost certainly does too.

The Post goes on to report that the department got phone records from important Trump aides, including Mark Meadows, all the way back in April, long before Liz Cheney started reading lists of Trump's crimes into the congressional record during the J6 hearings. And the point that really comes through is that the investigation really does seem to go all the way to the top.

DOJ has been trying to tell us, obviously in response to public scrutiny of the WHAT THE FUCK ARE Y'ALL EVEN DOING variety, that its investigation is ongoing, is expansive, and that they would "follow the facts wherever they go, no matter where they lead, no matter to what level," in the words of Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco.

► Show Spoiler

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:44 pm**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:19 pm
Dr. Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:11 am
Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office.
Well he did try to get wisconsin to overturn their results against last week.
Absolutely, and he committed many crimes both before and after he was in office, for which he can, and absolutely should be prosecuted.

My personal preference is not to put him in prison, but to make him live under a freeway bridge in a refrigerator box. The food is too nice for him in prison and they have medical care.

But please don't anyone tell me there's a lot of really strong evidence that he committed crimes while he was in office, because it doesn't matter if there's video of him shooting someone. I'm pretty sure he can't be prosecuted for anything he did while in office, so your evidence is really interesting. Maybe you can use it for somebody else.

The point beein "while in office" aka presidenting, versus him bein a candidate. IMHO being inactive while the crowd was intent to burn down Capitol Hill is bad presidential choice. His prior spoken words at the Ellipse was him holding a rally as candidate.

Apart, the Fake Elector scheme seems to have been the brain child of the T campaign with kraken tentakles reaching the WH and OO, to fullfill the wet dreams of the now former resident.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:25 pm**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office. He was impeached for his actions on J6, but not convicted.

As we have learned over the years, a convicted felon can be elected president; it's a special position in our Constitution. And if he commits treason or other "high crimes" the only remedy is impeachment.

So IMHO, don't get your hopes up that he'll be charged with a criminal offense for anything he did on J6.

This Office of Legal Counsel memo from the DoJ published in August 2000 seems to indicate otherwise.

IV. Conclusion

We conclude that the Constitution permits a former President to be criminally prosecuted for the same offenses for which he was impeached by the House and acquitted by the Senate while in office.

As the length of this memorandum indicates, we think the question is more complicated than it might first appear. In particular, we think that there is a reasonable argument that the Impeachment Judgment Clause should be read to bar prosecutions following acquittal by the Senate and that disqualification from federal office upon conviction by the Senate bears some of the markers of criminal punishment. Nonetheless, we think our conclusion accords with the text of the Constitution, reflects the founders' understanding of the new process of impeachment they were creating, fits the Senate's understanding of its role as the impeachment tribunal, and makes for a sensible and fair system of responding to the misdeeds of federal officials.

https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/olc/expresident.htm

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:16 pm**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:19 pm
Dr. Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:11 am
Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:15 am I hate to say this, but I don't think he can be prosecuted for anything he did while in office.
Well he did try to get wisconsin to overturn their results against last week.
Absolutely, and he committed many crimes both before and after he was in office, for which he can, and absolutely should be prosecuted.

My personal preference is not to put him in prison, but to make him live under a freeway bridge in a refrigerator box. The food is too nice for him in prison and they have medical care.

But please don't anyone tell me there's a lot of really strong evidence that he committed crimes while he was in office, because it doesn't matter if there's video of him shooting someone. I'm pretty sure he can't be prosecuted for anything he did while in office, so your evidence is really interesting. Maybe you can use it for somebody else.

Good discussion about the "while in office" issue on one of the radio stations this AM. Defense attorney held that it's not "while in office" that matters, it's what he's doing at the time. He phrased it as "is he presidenting or not at the time" or "was he engaged in activities in support, however vile, of the nation. So if he orders that the National Guard open fire on what looks like a mob of demonstrators running up the National Mall, and they turn out to be boy scouts, he's covered. But if he gets pissed off at Stephen MIller (because, why not) and blows his brains out, he's not. The attorney's point was that staging a coup; specifically spending Jan 6 doing nothing but calling Senators to get them to delay the vote; was not "presidenting." He also thinks the GA case is the best.

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm**

ALERT: The investigation into John Eastman expands

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:39 pm**

ALERT: The investigation into John Eastman expands

Meh: The feebs said this was its intent all along: to first get a warrant to seize the phone, and then get another warrant to search it.

It is a cautious approach to ensure the phone stays in its possession, and to fully litigate the appropriateness of searching the phone.

The judge said that it would order Eastman's phone returned to him if the feebs wasn't intending to search it. So the feebs showed the court that indeed is its intent.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:06 am**

Foggy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:19 pm But please don't anyone tell me there's a lot of really strong evidence that he committed crimes while he was in office, because it doesn't matter if there's video of him shooting someone. I'm pretty sure he can't be prosecuted for anything he did while in office, so your evidence is really interesting. Maybe you can use it for somebody else.

Do you mean at the federal level or the state level? Or .... do you just mean as a constitutional principle?

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:53 am**

Remember, I don't practice law and haven't for many, many years. I'm going with reality instead.

And I firmly believe that:

1) Trump will never be charged with a crime for anything he did while in office, not in federal court, not in state court, but,

2) If I'm wrong about that (I'm wrong a lot

), his attorneys will immediately start arguing that he can't be prosecuted for anything he did while in office, and they will take it all the way to the Supremes, and they will win, and the charges will be thrown in the garbage can.

So, umm ... it's not a well-developed legal argument. It's a prediction about reality.

But the conclusion of the 22 year old legal memo by the Office of Legal Counsel is not law, and courts are free to disagree, and their conclusions are pretty weak anyway IMHO. "We think our argument is at least plausible." Oh yeah, you can take that to the bank.

I would like to be wrong. I would like to see Trump perp-walked and frog-marched and waterboarded and locked in prison. I have given up on it ever happening.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:02 am**

The funny thing, Foggy, is that I agree with you that he will never be criminally charged--but not because of the law, or the DOJs perception of the law, both of which, so I have been told by those who know about these things, support indictment.

It's not cynicism, it's observation of his entire life: he is never held to account for his crimes because those who have the power to prosecute him chicken out.

For me, it's cowardice, not a statute.

cf Michael Cohen went to jail, while Individual 1 was not even charged.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:35 am**

On the bright side, if'n he ever was charged and arrested and convicted and sent to prison, he would spend his remaining days telling everyone that the jury voted him not guilty and totally innocent, but the Democrats got to the judge, who overturned the verdict. So unfair! So unfair!

Nobody has ever suffered the way that man has suffered.

I agree with Suranis, every day when Trump wakes up in the morning, his brainbone tells him:

LOSER. YOU LOST THE ELECTION. LOSER, LOSER, YOU'RE A LOSER!

And then he has to fight that all day long, and his life is fucking wretched, today and every day.

I'm good with that.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:01 am**

My hope is his brainbone says that in his father's voice.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:09 am**

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:09 am**

Whitaker: Garland is probably one of the most partisan people that could’ve been picked for that job because remember Republicans are the ones who held back his nomination. I guarantee he wants to pay back the Republicans

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:21 am**

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:55 am**

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:09 am

Whitaker: Garland is probably one of the most partisan people that could’ve been picked for that job because remember Republicans are the ones who held back his nomination. I guarantee he wants to pay back the Republicans

Whitaker says all this without any sense of irony.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:10 am**

Kendra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:09 am

Whitaker: Garland is probably one of the most partisan people that could’ve been picked for that job because remember Republicans are the ones who held back his nomination. I guarantee he wants to pay back the Republicans

He says that like it's a bad thing.

Fogbow

Merrick Garland's Justice Department

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