Airline Industry

[pipistrelle]

Someone wake Frater up.

[neonzx]

The 737 Max series hasn't proven reliable over recent years as I recall.

[RTH10260]

It was the port side emergency exit that blew out shortly after takeoff. The entire section fell away take parts of the window seat as well. Thankfully only the aisle seat had a passenger, and he lost his shirt in the process.

Sorry, incorrect. The section that blew out was part of what could be a middle door if ordered by the airline. Alaskan did not want this feature. According to the reports the section also tore away part of the fuselage. An image of the airliner on the tarmac shows the section missing down to the floor (I cannot find it at this time).

ETA. image

[RTH10260]

U.S. temporarily grounds Boeing 737 MAX 9 planes after blowout

By David Shepardson, Valerie Insinna and Tim Hepher
January 6, 20247:32 PM GMT+1Updated 17 min ago

Jan 6 (Reuters) - U.S. regulators have ordered the temporary grounding of 171 Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft for safety checks following a cabin panel blowout late Friday that forced a brand-new airplane operated by Alaska Airlines to make an emergency landing.

"The FAA is requiring immediate inspections of certain Boeing 737 MAX 9 planes before they can return to flight," FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said on Saturday. “Safety will continue to drive our decision-making as we assist the NTSB’s investigation into Alaska Airlines Flight 1282.”

A piece of fuselage tore off the left side of the jet as it climbed from Portland, Oregon, en route to Ontario, California, forcing pilots to turn back and land safely with 171 passengers and six crew on board. The plane had been in service for just eight weeks.

The Federal Aviation Administration's decision falls well short of a full indefinite safety ban comparable to the grounding of all MAX-family jets almost five years ago, but deals a new blow to Boeing as it tries to recover from back-to-back crises over safety and the pandemic under massive debts.

Boeing's best-selling model was grounded for almost two years following crashes in 2018 and 2019. The latest mishap also comes as Boeing and a major supplier are grappling with a succession of production or quality problems.

There were no immediate indications of the cause of the apparent structural failure, nor any reports of injuries.



https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 024-01-06/

[AndyinPA]

I noticed the daily flight we took to Seattle on Alaska Airlines didn't fly today.

[Frater I*I]

Someone wake Frater up.

[snore...]

As shown earlier by RTH, this isn't the overwing exit door failing, by design they can't be force out through the cut out in the skin, in fact pressurization prevents the overwing door from being opened period.

This is a failure of the plug put in as the customer didn't want the aft wing Pax [passenger] door feature. Since the skins are manufactured using jigs of a specific design, it is impossible to get a skin section without that door cut out, and hence the aforementioned plug.

Boeing needs to be worried though, running the N number tells me the aircraft rolled off the line this year, so this issue will be on them and not the airline maintenance personnel....the FAA will be back up their [expletive deleted] with a microscope again.

[jcolvin2]

Someone wake Frater up.

[snore...]

As shown earlier by RTH, this isn't the overwing exit door failing, by design they can't be force out through the cut out in the skin, in fact pressurization prevents the overwing door from being opened period.

This is a failure of the plug put in as the customer didn't want the aft wing Pax [passenger] door feature. Since the skins are manufactured using jigs of a specific design, it is impossible to get a skin section without that door cut out, and hence the aforementioned plug.

Boeing needs to be worried though, running the N number tells me the aircraft rolled off the line this year, so this issue will be on them and not the airline maintenance personnel....the FAA will be back up their [expletive deleted] with a microscope again.

Thanks for the explanation. It seems like any replacement of an exit door with a plug should be looked at closely.

[Kriselda Gray]

The 737 Max series hasn't proven reliable over recent years as I recall.

No, it hasn't. The Max 8 was grounded for some time, also, after a few accidents happened. (I forget the details on those)

[pipistrelle]

Someone wake Frater up.

[snore...]

As shown earlier by RTH, this isn't the overwing exit door failing, by design they can't be force out through the cut out in the skin, in fact pressurization prevents the overwing door from being opened period.

This is a failure of the plug put in as the customer didn't want the aft wing Pax [passenger] door feature. Since the skins are manufactured using jigs of a specific design, it is impossible to get a skin section without that door cut out, and hence the aforementioned plug.

Boeing needs to be worried though, running the N number tells me the aircraft rolled off the line this year, so this issue will be on them and not the airline maintenance personnel....the FAA will be back up their [expletive deleted] with a microscope again.

Thanks-never knew about plugs (or that doors were optional). And: "The plane had been in service for just eight weeks."

[RTH10260]

Depending who ones listens to, this opening is an optional door for boarding passengers, and by other counts its the location of an aditional emergency exit hatch in case the plane is configured to carry more passengers (I have seen mentioning more that 140 would require the extra exit). Possibly it is both

[RTH10260]

Who will find the crumpled remains of the missing fuselage panel in the wooded wilderness in the greater Portland area

[Frater I*I]

Depending who ones listens to, this opening is an optional door for boarding passengers, and by other counts its the location of an aditional emergency exit hatch in case the plane is configured to carry more passengers (I have seen mentioning more that 140 would require the extra exit). Possibly it is both

It is an additional emergency exit, opening it will cause an escape slide to deploy.

[Frater I*I]

Who will find the crumpled remains of the missing fuselage panel in the wooded wilderness in the greater Portland area

The NTSB

[northland10]

Boeing needs to be worried though, running the N number tells me the aircraft rolled off the line this year, so this issue will be on them and not the airline maintenance personnel....the FAA will be back up their [expletive deleted] with a microscope again.

This is what happens when Mcdonnell Douglas buys Boeing with Boeing's money.

[tek]

It is an additional emergency exit, opening it will cause an escape slide to deploy.

It is additional emergency exit location, but this aircraft was not configured for a number of passengers that requires the additional exit(s) so it is just a dummy panel. From the inside it does not look like there is a door (or anything special) at all. There is no slide fitted.

Joke on the internet is that Boeing is sending a team of 20 accountants to investigate.

[bill_g]

Image of Boeing 737 Max 9 as purchased by Alaska Airlines according to NPR -



Another image from Air Data News with the fuselage section of interest circled -



I was interested if the optional unused door was visible from the exterior, and it certainly appears to be. So now I'm interested in how the unused door is affixed to the fuselage. Karnac predicts all these aircraft will be inspected with a fix applied.

[tek]

Juan is usually a pretty good source:

[bill_g]

That's all populated subruban area. Depending on how the plug behaved as it became a 400mph frisbee two and half miles in the air over the Portland Metro area, it may have drifted into Washington. It will show up someday. Apparently nobody got hit on the ground which is a good thing.

[BeastofBourbon]

I just saw a report that they believe the door is located near 217 and Barnes Rd./ Cedar Mill or Cedar Hills in Portland, very close to my neighborhood. Maybe I should walk around the property to check.

[bill_g]

I just saw a report that they believe the door is located near 217 and Barnes Rd./ Cedar Mill or Cedar Hills in Portland, very close to my neighborhood. Maybe I should walk around the property to check.

Wow. It went almost straight down then.

[neeneko]

Not that long ago (as in, a few months) there was a new bit of mandatory training at Boeing involving a slickly produced film involving some engineer too concerned with their career failing to let the nobel manager know about their mistake and causing reputation loss for the company.

Engineers quickly pointed out that many of the problems that happened involved engineering raising problems with management and management deciding to ignore the problem in order to hit schedule.

Though sounds like this is another problem with Spirit Aerosystems which... well, what do you expect when you spin off part of the company specifically so it will cost less. That savings has to come from somewhere, and apparently replacing skilled workers with cheaper ones is part of it.

[northland10]

Before the merger, Boeing was the home of the engineers and McDonnel-Douglas was the home of the spend nothings.

Pre-meger, Boeing developed the the 707, 727, 747, 757, 767 and 777. Most of these were generally new platforms.

Douglas crated the DC-8, DC-9, and DC-10.

After they merged with McDonnell they had:

MD-80, an extension of the DC-9, and the updated 80 was the MD-90.

The Boeing 717 started as a MD-95 which was just an updated DC-9.

The DC-10 begat the MD-11.

Since the merger, only the 787 was a new platform. Everything else is extending the 737 and 777 (and one last attempt to extend the 747).

[tek]

I just saw a report that they believe the door is located near 217 and Barnes Rd./ Cedar Mill or Cedar Hills in Portland, very close to my neighborhood. Maybe I should walk around the property to check.

I think I heard that the FAA has primary radar returns that track it on the way down.. but I can't find that source..

[Sam the Centipede]

Before the merger, Boeing was the home of the engineers and McDonnel-Douglas was the home of the spend nothings.

In that vein, I recall watching a tv prog after the 737 Max crashes which said that Old Man Boeing was very keen on quality and safety, with the unspoken implication that he would not have been pleased at what was being done with his legacy and to passengers in the eponymous planes.

I'm not an air-head (!) so others will know better.

[Maybenaut]

Before the merger, Boeing was the home of the engineers and McDonnel-Douglas was the home of the spend nothings.

Pre-meger, Boeing developed the the 707, 727, 747, 757, 767 and 777. Most of these were generally new platforms.

Douglas crated the DC-8, DC-9, and DC-10.

After they merged with McDonnell they had:

MD-80, an extension of the DC-9, and the updated 80 was the MD-90.

The Boeing 717 started as a MD-95 which was just an updated DC-9.

The DC-10 begat the MD-11.

Since the merger, only the 787 was a new platform. Everything else is extending the 737 and 777 (and one last attempt to extend the 747).

Sometimes called the “Might Die-80”