Another Shooting

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Another Shooting

#8826

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:18 pm

This case might not be quite as clear cut "gun nut gets his own back" as first seems.

I read somewhere that his sons said their father had lots of burglaries and thefts (or thought he had) and feared for his safety but the local cops wouldn't take him seriously, treated him as if he were senile. So he was worried and decided to make some protection. The sons say he wasn't a gun nut.

Obviously still a foolish response to the situation, but perhaps there is some blame elsewhere.

Having said that though, nobody should do anything that stupid with firearms. Nobody. Never.



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Whatever4
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Re: Another Shooting

#8827

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:34 pm

Grumpy Old Guy wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:00 pm
Whatever4 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:10 pm
Slim Cognito wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:32 pm
I will leave this here without comment.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/booby-trap-ki ... d=67414907
That’s way up north on the border with Canada, where 3/4 of the population speak French, and where the crime rate is practically nil.
That part of New Brunswick it might be close to 75% French speaking, but not in all of Canada.

With that name, he most likely was descended from French speakers.
Whoops, I meant that part of Maine is 3/4 French-speaking. New England French is a Thing up here.

A Maine family I know once adopted a young boy who couldn’t understand anyone, until he overheard someone speaking French. Aha! No one knew he didn’t understand English. OK, it was Listeme’s brother.


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listeme
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Re: Another Shooting

#8828

Post by listeme » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:47 am

All true! My grandmother was the one who discovered my brother's language. He wasn't quite two at the time.

And to continue the threadjack, a few thanksgivings ago, we went to my mom's church thanksgiving meal here in Maine, and at one end of the table were two groups of very different seeming people: small round older white ladies and tall dark refugee men from -- I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember which country at the moment, I'll ask my mom later. Anyway, we were all talking. But at -that- end of the table were about eight people talking French and thrilled to be doing so. It was very cute to see these little ladies so animated.


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DejaMoo
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Re: Another Shooting

#8829

Post by DejaMoo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:56 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:18 pm
This case might not be quite as clear cut "gun nut gets his own back" as first seems.

I read somewhere that his sons said their father had lots of burglaries and thefts (or thought he had) and feared for his safety but the local cops wouldn't take him seriously, treated him as if he were senile. So he was worried and decided to make some protection. The sons say he wasn't a gun nut.
This case is reminiscent of that of Byron David Smith. Smith moved to a rural town in Minnesota after he retired. His property was burglarized several times. He suspected the culprits were a couple of teens he'd befriended and hired to do occasional chores for him. On Thanksgiving Day, 2012, he spotted one of the teens heading towards his house. He waited in the basement with a gun, and shot the kid as he came down the basement stairs. He finished him off, dragged the body out of sight, then waited for the other teen to show up - and shot and killed her, too.

In each case, an extreme over-reaction to a crime incident. Yes, burglary is scary and threatening, but better to catch the perps in the act and call the cops than risk anyone getting killed for a property crime.


I've heard this bull before.

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neeneko
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Re: Another Shooting

#8830

Post by neeneko » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:36 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:56 pm
In each case, an extreme over-reaction to a crime incident. Yes, burglary is scary and threatening, but better to catch the perps in the act and call the cops than risk anyone getting killed for a property crime.
Tricky part, as highlighted in the recent guy's case, is what do you do when the cops do not take you seriously?
I personally live in an unincorporated town, meaning we depend on county level police. A common complaint around here is that country level police just don't want to get involved in problems under a certain scale, which tends to include petty property crimes. So in underserviced areas this can be a bit of an issue.



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Re: Another Shooting

#8831

Post by Dave at Sea » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:53 pm

Many hidden digital cameras (instead of loaded guns).

Get the footage
Get a lawyer
Get lawyer to present the footage to police
Get lawyer to follow up with police
Get lawyer to follow up with police over site if no action taken
Make it an issue if no action taken.



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Re: Another Shooting

#8832

Post by RoadScholar » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:20 pm

Also... howzabout a really loud alarm system? We've had a couple of break-in attempts, and when they pushed hard enough to set off the alarm, the creeps split both times.


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RVInit
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Re: Another Shooting

#8833

Post by RVInit » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:34 pm

Dave at Sea wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:53 pm
Many hidden digital cameras (instead of loaded guns).

Get the footage
Get a lawyer
Get lawyer to present the footage to police
Get lawyer to follow up with police
Get lawyer to follow up with police over site if no action taken
Make it an issue if no action taken.
:like:


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Jim
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Re: Another Shooting

#8834

Post by Jim » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:36 pm

Meh, get a dog. Combination early-warning system and alarm.



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Slim Cognito
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Re: Another Shooting

#8835

Post by Slim Cognito » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:59 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:36 pm
Meh, get a dog. Combination early-warning system and alarm.
Agreed. We have three little ankle biters, but the terrier has a big-dog bark. Still, it's not as comforting as Shadow, our Australian Shepherd/Cattle Dog mix, the best dog that ever lived. Still miss her every day.
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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Another Shooting

#8836

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:26 pm

Cameras, lawyers, dogs, alarms, perhaps add to those pepper sprays (or whatever is legal) and the like: all non-lethal, reasonably effective, and, critically not going to kill the person in fear or get them in court on a charge.

All better than messing around with guns. Which kill both good guys and bad guys. And don't mind killing their owners.

Hmm... there's obviously a gap in getting this across to those affected: "worried? scared? want to feel safer? here's some ideas!"



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Hurtzi
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Re: Another Shooting

#8837

Post by Hurtzi » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:34 pm

Lucky me. Tonight - like every night - my front door is not locked.


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DejaMoo
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Re: Another Shooting

#8838

Post by DejaMoo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:49 pm

neeneko wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:36 pm
DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:56 pm
In each case, an extreme over-reaction to a crime incident. Yes, burglary is scary and threatening, but better to catch the perps in the act and call the cops than risk anyone getting killed for a property crime.
Tricky part, as highlighted in the recent guy's case, is what do you do when the cops do not take you seriously?
The Minnesota guy decided the local cops weren't taking him seriously, too. It might've been true - the cops may've been more on the side of locals than an outsider, or didn't consider property crimes a priority, or just didn't see enough evidence to pursue - but it's just as likely that these guys heard the cops' explanation for why they weren't staking out their houses/arresting the perps instantly as them not taking them seriously.
I personally live in an unincorporated town, meaning we depend on county level police. A common complaint around here is that country level police just don't want to get involved in problems under a certain scale, which tends to include petty property crimes. So in underserviced areas this can be a bit of an issue.
My sister lives in a suburb that practices this very same type of policing. The cops prefer to treat a lot of issues as simple cases of neighbors not getting along, and refuse to get involved. The solution is to escalate. Take it up with the elected officials who oversee the police. The town or city council, or the county. Provide evidence and in the last resort, bring in a lawyer and/or the local media.

And yeah, providing evidence means insisting on police reports for every incident (never assume the cops are writing reports each time, insist on getting copies), and install video surveillance. That's cheap enough nowadays.

In my own neighborhood, we discovered the hard way that the numerous issues we'd been having for several years with a couple of group homes had never been documented by the police. Sure, they were called out every time, but the cops always treated it as a neighbor dispute and never wrote anything up. It took a community meeting with the city council and chief of police, where numerous neighbors gave accounts of specific incidents, for the city council to crack down on the cops. From then on, each and every incident got a police report, and once the city realized the scale of the problem, one group home was shut down and the other one required to build a fence and properly monitor its residents. (Both homes had a history of their mentally disturbed/disabled residents wandering off and usually committing home invasions. Some of which involved acts of violence.)


I've heard this bull before.

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Re: Another Shooting

#8839

Post by TexasFilly » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:01 pm

So, yesterday there was an incident at a high school in Wisconsin where a student pulled a gun on a school resource officer. It did not end well for the student. Now today in Oshkosh, a repeat performance:

https://fox11online.com/news/local/poli ... igh-school


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Re: Another Shooting

#8840

Post by TexasFilly » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:30 pm

Shooting at Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard, 1 dead, 2 critical:https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/12/0 ... -shipyard/


I love the poorly educated!!!

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Re: Another Shooting

#8841

Post by Lani » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:34 am

This hit us hard. I was in a meeting - outdoors, enjoying the day - when our phones went off with breaking news. We were stunned, and the meeting ended.

We don't want this shit here, we're fighting off the NRA, and we don't YET live in fear of guns. :cry: I hope we stay that way despite today's news.

That this happened at Pearl Harbor so close to the National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day on December 7 makes it particularly painful.


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Re: Another Shooting

#8842

Post by RVInit » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:09 pm

Lani wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:34 am
This hit us hard. I was in a meeting - outdoors, enjoying the day - when our phones went off with breaking news. We were stunned, and the meeting ended.

We don't want this shit here, we're fighting off the NRA, and we don't YET live in fear of guns. :cry: I hope we stay that way despite today's news.

That this happened at Pearl Harbor so close to the National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day on December 7 makes it particularly painful.
:bighug:


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Slim Cognito
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Re: Another Shooting

#8843

Post by Slim Cognito » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:13 pm

Lani wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:34 am
This hit us hard. I was in a meeting - outdoors, enjoying the day - when our phones went off with breaking news. We were stunned, and the meeting ended.

We don't want this shit here, we're fighting off the NRA, and we don't YET live in fear of guns. :cry: I hope we stay that way despite today's news.

That this happened at Pearl Harbor so close to the National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day on December 7 makes it particularly painful.
:crying:


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Re: Another Shooting

#8844

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:39 am

MSNBC
@MSNBC
·
8m
DEVELOPING: Reports of a shooting incident at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida panhandle, sheriff's office tells
@NBCNews
NBC News
@NBCNews
·
2m
Replying to
@NBCNews
NAS Pensacola: "Both gates of NASP are currently secured due to reports of an active shooter. More information will be provided as it becomes available."


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Re: Another Shooting

#8845

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:59 am

Police: Patron angered by ketchup pulls gun at McDonald's

https://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/ ... itter_abcn
Authorities in Tennessee say an irate woman pointed a gun at fast food workers because they gave her ketchup instead of jelly.

Asia Vester, 20, was arrested Tuesday and charged with aggravated assault and unlawful possession of a weapon, news outlets are reporting.

According to a Memphis police affidavit, Vester was in the drive-thru line of a McDonald's last week when she received her food and realized her request for jelly was either forgotten or unheeded. She instead received ketchup.

Words were exchanged with several employees. Vester was accused of pulling out a gun and pointing it at employees, the affidavit says.
Seems like there have been a lot of serious fatal or near fatal overreactions in the news recently. A man shot and killed his girlfriend's teenaged children after they asked him not to smoke in the house. A man strangled a woman to death after she ignored his catcalls. So much senseless anger.


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Re: Another Shooting

#8846

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:00 am

Jim Sciutto
@jimsciutto
·
7m
Update: Shooter dead. Escambia County Sheriff Office posted on their Facebook page, “The ECSO can confirm there is no longer an active shooter on NAS Pensacola. The shooter is confirmed dead.”


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Re: Another Shooting

#8847

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:08 am

Shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola; at least 5 taken to hospitals

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ac ... d_ms_tw_ma
A naval base in Pensacola, Florida, was on lockdown Friday morning after reports of an active shooter, with at least five people transported to local hospitals, authorities said.

The shooter has been confirmed dead, according to the Escambia County Sheriff's Office.

Jason Bortz, the public affairs officer for Naval Air Station Pensacola, said reports of a shooting began at 6:30 a.m.

"Both gates of NASP are currently secured due to reports of an active shooter," said a post on the station's Facebook page. Escambia County Sheriff spokeswoman Amber Southland told NBC News an active shooter was on the base.


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neeneko
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Re: Another Shooting

#8848

Post by neeneko » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:14 am

Volkonski wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:59 am
Seems like there have been a lot of serious fatal or near fatal overreactions in the news recently. A man shot and killed his girlfriend's teenaged children after they asked him not to smoke in the house. A man strangled a woman to death after she ignored his catcalls. So much senseless anger.
Maybe news outlets trying to show that they are covering anything besides the impeachment or trump?

It is always rather baffling to watch common types of stories suddenly become national news for no apparent reason.



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Re: Another Shooting

#8849

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:44 am

MSNBC
@MSNBC
·
13m
At least 1 dead and many injured in shooting at a US naval base in Florida.


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Re: Another Shooting

#8850

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:47 am

3 dead including suspect after active shooter incident at Naval Air Station Pensacola, police say: Live updates

https://abcnews.go.com/US/active-shoote ... d=67542409
Nine patients were admitted to Baptist Hospital in Pensacola but their conditions are unknown at this time, a hospital spokesperson said.

An unknown number of injured were taken to the trauma center at Ascension Sacred Heart Hospital.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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