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Shot While Black

Trying to make sense of a crazy world, with limited success mostly
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Shot While Black

#1

Post by LM K »

In several threads, many of us have been discussing the many shootings of Black people. It's time to organize the topic.

The body cam footage of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr. was just about to be released. Brown's family was supposed to see the video an hour ago . They were allowed to see20 seconds of the video.

While the police department said they would release the raw footage, they just postponed the release of the video so they can redact some footage.

Civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump
,
who's among lawyers representing Brown's family, said the delay is meant to protect law enforcement officers at the same time as they release the warrants with negative details about Brown.

“Now, you all may have noticed that they released a warrant saying all kinds of things about Andrew Brown, but they want to redact the face of the ... officers that killed Andrew Brown," he said, adding that law officials blurring deputies' faces are “going to protect them and not show their face and not say their names ... because what they want to do is assassinate the character” of Brown.
The national guard is on standby in preparation that the release of the video will cause intense protests.
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Re: Shot While Black

#2

Post by neonzx »

What's taking so long to redact the video (blur faces)? There is video edit software that can do that automagically.

Seems very tense there. They shut down in-person schools for this week and students are all remote-learning.
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Re: Shot While Black

#3

Post by sugar magnolia »

LM K wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:00 pm In several threads, many of us have been discussing the many shootings of Black people. It's time to organize the topic.

The body cam footage of the shooting of Andrew Brown Jr. was just about to be released. Brown's family was supposed to see the video an hour ago . They were allowed to see20 seconds of the video.

While the police department said they would release the raw footage, they just postponed the release of the video so they can redact some footage.

Civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump
,
who's among lawyers representing Brown's family, said the delay is meant to protect law enforcement officers at the same time as they release the warrants with negative details about Brown.

“Now, you all may have noticed that they released a warrant saying all kinds of things about Andrew Brown, but they want to redact the face of the ... officers that killed Andrew Brown," he said, adding that law officials blurring deputies' faces are “going to protect them and not show their face and not say their names ... because what they want to do is assassinate the character” of Brown.
The national guard is on standby in preparation that the release of the video will cause intense protests.
Do we know how many deputies were involved?

Every time I hear about a shooting while a warrant is being served, my mind goes to the lazy, out of shape, should be retired officers who so frequently wind up in the county warrant divisions. They are obviously not all like that, but warrants and records division is where many of them do end up, at least around here. That, and the weird NC laws about the body cam video, would partially explain their reluctance to make everything public right away. They're trying to get their stories straight first.
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Re: Shot While Black

#4

Post by LM K »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:51 pm
Do we know how many deputies were involved?

Every time I hear about a shooting while a warrant is being served, my mind goes to the lazy, out of shape, should be retired officers who so frequently wind up in the county warrant divisions. They are obviously not all like that, but warrants and records division is where many of them do end up, at least around here. That, and the weird NC laws about the body cam video, would partially explain their reluctance to make everything public right away. They're trying to get their stories straight first.
10 officers were involved, which seems excessive for someone accused of selling a small amount of drugs.

7 officers are on admin leave, 2 have resigned, and one has retired.

That's a lot of stories to get straight. Iirc, there are eyewitnesses.

Brown was shot in the back while driving away from the cops.

Sugar, I've been wanting to ask a question. Why do police shoot at those trying to evade arrest? I can understand if the suspect has just committed a violent crime. But Brown's hands were on the steering wheel. Are suspects in cars driving away from officers considered a deadly threat? Are suspects who are fleeing on foot considered a deadly threat? It's my understanding that shooting at suspects is intended to prevent harm to those around the suspect. I do understand that even fleeing suspects might have weapons, but if a weapon isn't seen, isn't the use of deadly force excessive when a suspect is trying to flee?

I've been wondering about this for some time.

Any illumination on this issue will be appreciated. If you're up for discussing the issue.

I want to thank you for sharing so much about law enforcement issues. I'm learning so much from you, and I appreciate everything you share. :bighug:
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Re: Shot While Black

#5

Post by LM K »

neonzx wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:16 pm What's taking so long to redact the video (blur faces)? There is video edit software that can do that automagically.

Seems very tense there. They shut down in-person schools for this week and students are all remote-learning.
An state of emergency has been announced with the national guard on standby.

I suspect the video is very damning for the police dept. But, we will hopefully and unfortunately see the video soon.
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Re: Shot While Black

#6

Post by LM K »

I should add that I don't have an issue with the blurring of officer's faces at this time. The officers haven't been charged or arrested. Their families will be at risk if identities are release at this time.

The police dept should have done this before the date they said they'd make the video available to the family and the public.
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Re: Shot While Black

#7

Post by neonzx »

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Re: Shot While Black

#8

Post by filly »

What’s taking the Brown family lawyers so long to ask for that court order? Or any other interested parties for that matter?
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Re: Shot While Black

#9

Post by sugar magnolia »

LM K wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:16 pm

Sugar, I've been wanting to ask a question. Why do police shoot at those trying to evade arrest? I can understand if the suspect has just committed a violent crime. But Brown's hands were on the steering wheel. Are suspects in cars driving away from officers considered a deadly threat? Are suspects who are fleeing on foot considered a deadly threat? It's my understanding that shooting at suspects is intended to prevent harm to those around the suspect. I do understand that even fleeing suspects might have weapons, but if a weapon isn't seen, isn't the use of deadly force excessive when a suspect is trying to flee?

I've been wondering about this for some time.

Any illumination on this issue will be appreciated. If you're up for discussing the issue.

I want to thank you for sharing so much about law enforcement issues. I'm learning so much from you, and I appreciate everything you share. :bighug:
Good question without a good answer. Just because someone in a car is shot in the back doesn't automatically make it a bad shooting, though. It's oddly common for someone trying to get away from the cops to reverse into the patrol car or towards an officer. That then becomes assault with a deadly weapon, no gun required. There are myriad reasons why cops shoot at fleeing vehicles, ranging from adrenaline-fueled bad judgment or anger to stopping a deadly threat, and everything in between. Sometimes officers are working off of incorrect information (Breonna Taylor comes to mind) or incomplete information (which is usually how the officer is killed, not the suspect) and they approach each situation based on their knowledge at the time.

A lot of people overlook the fact that the officer can only respond to the information they have going into a situation, or what they observe for themselves. It's very easy to sit back and decide what should or shouldn't have been done once more information is available. Officers don't have that luxury in the heat of the moment. They might respond to a call with limited information from the reporting party, who may or may not have given an accurate clothing description, or whether there are weapons present, or even what the actual crime is. Without a name you can't look at someone and know if they have some sort of felony warrant and they're on the run from shooting someone one county over 10 minutes ago and have vowed "the coppers will never take me alive." People call in screaming "I've been robbed!" when actually their house has been burglarized. Completely different mind set approaching each of those situations. Our local dept has been short-handed for years and a while back there was a rash of calls for all kinds of minor misdemeanors where the caller claimed someone had a gun because they thought it would get a faster response. That backfired when response times to everything took longer because they could no longer prioritize accurately and several people were charged with making false police reports.

Technically, a vehicle during a traffic stop is considered a potential weapon (risk, not threat) until the driver does something to put the officers or others in danger (threat, at that point) but each shoot/don't shoot decision is made at that moment. There is no one size fits all reaction. It's the totality of the situation based on the information available to the officer. Shooting a suspect running on foot is a little different. Shooting an unarmed suspect in the back when he's posing no immediate danger is frowned upon. A million questions run through your mind. Is he armed? Is he running towards a place he can retrieve a weapon? Is he trying to grab a hostage? Again, the decisions are made in a split second and based on available knowledge. Did you actually see a weapon? Do you have knowledge he just shot 3 people even though you don't see the weapon?

If the "reasonable officer" standard was ingrained during training and applied uniformly across all cases, and officers who failed to meet that standard were held accountable every. single. time, that would go a long way towards stopping a lot of the bad shootings. Shoot/don't shoot simulations have been proven repeatedly to positively impact officer's decisions in the field. Unfortunately, as police departments have moved towards more paramilitary practices, the practical training has fallen by the wayside to a certain extent.

So, in answer to your original questions, it depends.
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Re: Shot While Black

#10

Post by neonzx »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:31 pm Good question without a good answer. Just because someone in a car is shot in the back doesn't automatically make it a bad shooting, though. It's oddly common for someone trying to get away from the cops to reverse into the patrol car or towards an officer. That then becomes assault with a deadly weapon, no gun required. There are myriad reasons why cops shoot at fleeing vehicles, ranging from adrenaline-fueled bad judgment or anger to stopping a deadly threat, and everything in between. Sometimes officers are working off of incorrect information (Breonna Taylor comes to mind) or incomplete information (which is usually how the officer is killed, not the suspect) and they approach each situation based on their knowledge at the time.
And that's why we (the collective 'we') need to see that body cam footage from those deputies. This happened in a small town (pop. ~18,000). If this happened here in Fort Myers, FL, you can bet that the streets would be filled with protests -- including white people, like me.

I want to see the body cam videos. STAT.
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Re: Shot While Black

#11

Post by sugar magnolia »

neonzx wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:47 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:31 pm Good question without a good answer. Just because someone in a car is shot in the back doesn't automatically make it a bad shooting, though. It's oddly common for someone trying to get away from the cops to reverse into the patrol car or towards an officer. That then becomes assault with a deadly weapon, no gun required. There are myriad reasons why cops shoot at fleeing vehicles, ranging from adrenaline-fueled bad judgment or anger to stopping a deadly threat, and everything in between. Sometimes officers are working off of incorrect information (Breonna Taylor comes to mind) or incomplete information (which is usually how the officer is killed, not the suspect) and they approach each situation based on their knowledge at the time.
And that's why we (the collective 'we') need to see that body cam footage from those deputies. This happened in a small town (pop. ~18,000). If this happened here in Fort Myers, FL, you can bet that the streets would be filled with protests -- including white people, like me.

I want to see the body cam videos. STAT.
Absolutely. The faster body cam video is released and the faster the cops get out in front of any shooting, the less chance they have to call in the National Guard or risk another shooting when people start protesting.

NC apparently has some sort of weird legal thing about releasing the video though, so it's taking much longer than it should. And I personally think there is a good possibility they fucked up and are trying to figure out how to get out from under it. That may not be the case, but not releasing the video isn't helping change hearts and minds. It's making things worse.
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Re: Shot While Black

#12

Post by RVInit »

I wonder if they are hunting for as much damaging information about Brown as possible. Did he own a gun, if so they can say they "knew he probably had a gun". It seems strange that they are not trying to get out in front of this, people are just getting more and more suspicious as time goes by and there is no transparency. They can't reveal any information because it might harm the investigation, but they can put out all kinds of bad information about Brown and somehow that doesn't harm the investigation.
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Re: Shot While Black

#13

Post by sugar magnolia »

RVInit wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:05 pm I wonder if they are hunting for as much damaging information about Brown as possible. Did he own a gun, if so they can say they "knew he probably had a gun". It seems strange that they are not trying to get out in front of this, people are just getting more and more suspicious as time goes by and there is no transparency. They can't reveal any information because it might harm the investigation, but they can put out all kinds of bad information about Brown and somehow that doesn't harm the investigation.
Yeah, it's bullshit, but they aren't investigating Brown, they're investigating the cops. So they can put out anything they want to make it look like "he needed killin'" without affecting the investigation.

Also, weird NC laws about releasing the video. I don't know all nuances, but the Chief and/or Mayor or whoever can't just say to release it. It also requires a court order to release it.
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Re: Shot While Black

#14

Post by LM K »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:31 pm
LM K wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:16 pm

Sugar, I've been wanting to ask a question. Why do police shoot at those trying to evade arrest? I can understand if the suspect has just committed a violent crime. But Brown's hands were on the steering wheel. Are suspects in cars driving away from officers considered a deadly threat? Are suspects who are fleeing on foot considered a deadly threat? It's my understanding that shooting at suspects is intended to prevent harm to those around the suspect. I do understand that even fleeing suspects might have weapons, but if a weapon isn't seen, isn't the use of deadly force excessive when a suspect is trying to flee?

I've been wondering about this for some time.

Any illumination on this issue will be appreciated. If you're up for discussing the issue.

I want to thank you for sharing so much about law enforcement issues. I'm learning so much from you, and I appreciate everything you share. :bighug:
Good question without a good answer. Just because someone in a car is shot in the back doesn't automatically make it a bad shooting, though. It's oddly common for someone trying to get away from the cops to reverse into the patrol car or towards an officer. That then becomes assault with a deadly weapon, no gun required. There are myriad reasons why cops shoot at fleeing vehicles, ranging from adrenaline-fueled bad judgment or anger to stopping a deadly threat, and everything in between. Sometimes officers are working off of incorrect information (Breonna Taylor comes to mind) or incomplete information (which is usually how the officer is killed, not the suspect) and they approach each situation based on their knowledge at the time.

A lot of people overlook the fact that the officer can only respond to the information they have going into a situation, or what they observe for themselves. It's very easy to sit back and decide what should or shouldn't have been done once more information is available. Officers don't have that luxury in the heat of the moment. They might respond to a call with limited information from the reporting party, who may or may not have given an accurate clothing description, or whether there are weapons present, or even what the actual crime is. Without a name you can't look at someone and know if they have some sort of felony warrant and they're on the run from shooting someone one county over 10 minutes ago and have vowed "the coppers will never take me alive." People call in screaming "I've been robbed!" when actually their house has been burglarized. Completely different mind set approaching each of those situations. Our local dept has been short-handed for years and a while back there was a rash of calls for all kinds of minor misdemeanors where the caller claimed someone had a gun because they thought it would get a faster response. That backfired when response times to everything took longer because they could no longer prioritize accurately and several people were charged with making false police reports.

Technically, a vehicle during a traffic stop is considered a potential weapon (risk, not threat) until the driver does something to put the officers or others in danger (threat, at that point) but each shoot/don't shoot decision is made at that moment. There is no one size fits all reaction. It's the totality of the situation based on the information available to the officer. Shooting a suspect running on foot is a little different. Shooting an unarmed suspect in the back when he's posing no immediate danger is frowned upon. A million questions run through your mind. Is he armed? Is he running towards a place he can retrieve a weapon? Is he trying to grab a hostage? Again, the decisions are made in a split second and based on available knowledge. Did you actually see a weapon? Do you have knowledge he just shot 3 people even though you don't see the weapon?

If the "reasonable officer" standard was ingrained during training and applied uniformly across all cases, and officers who failed to meet that standard were held accountable every. single. time, that would go a long way towards stopping a lot of the bad shootings. Shoot/don't shoot simulations have been proven repeatedly to positively impact officer's decisions in the field. Unfortunately, as police departments have moved towards more paramilitary practices, the practical training has fallen by the wayside to a certain extent.

So, in answer to your original questions, it depends.
Thank you! Pointing out the increasing paramilitary practices significantly clarifies the issue for me. Our law enforcement departments do seem more militaristic, which is really sad. Your point about shoot/don't shoot training is excellent. That makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Shot While Black

#15

Post by LM K »

It's been 6 hours and no video has been released. Brown's family still hasn't watched more than 20 seconds of the video. City, county, and state officials want the video released ASAP. This delay is not in the best interest of the police dept.
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Re: Shot While Black

#16

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4 ... vin-Expert
Maryland to Reexamine Cases Headed by Chauvin Expert

An open letter signed by at least 458 physicians asking that a review of all in custody cases taking place between 2003 and 2020 was sent to the United States and Maryland Attorneys General offices. The request includes that an independent panel of pathologists review the cases and confirm that a correct conclusion was made as to cause of death for each of the cases.

There were two main issues raised by the letter. The first was that there was no medical evidence that George Floyd’s death was caused in any way by the presence of carbon monoxide. The second issue is that it was inappropriate to classify Mr. Floyd’s death as undetermined. The doctors also reviewed two medical journal articles examining conclusions reached by the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME). The fact that Dr. Fowler came to these incorrect conclusions, combined with these articles led them to conclude that, “There is a genuine concern that there may be an inappropriate classification of deaths in custody by the Maryland OCME as either Accident or Undetermined to purposefully usurp a manner of death classification of Homicide.” If I am reading this correctly, it means that these doctors are seeing conclusions from in-custody deaths that are not consistent with accepted medical practices. Further, there is doubt as to their scientific accuracy, and that there is the real possibility that these conclusions are intended to prevent accusations that the deaths were the result of homicides.

As a result of this letter, the Attorney General of Maryland has agreed to an independent review of in-custody death conclusions made under the tenure of Dr. Fowler.

A numbers (sic) of corrective measures were requested in the letter, which essentially accuses Dr. Fowler of malpractice. Among these steps are an independent multi-disciplinary panel to evaluate in-custody deaths, a new box on death certificate’s indicating an in-custody death, and a review of Dr. Fowler’s medical license. The article does not state whether any of these other options are also being considered, either by the state or by federal authorities.
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Re: Shot While Black

#17

Post by LM K »

Still no video in the Andrew Brown Jr shooting. Family has seen 20 seconds, but had been promised to view the entire raw footage at 1:30 pm eastern.

How can people not be suspicious about this?!!!

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Re: Shot While Black

#18

Post by LM K »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:46 am https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4 ... vin-Expert
Maryland to Reexamine Cases Headed by Chauvin Expert

An open letter signed by at least 458 physicians asking that a review of all in custody cases taking place between 2003 and 2020 was sent to the United States and Maryland Attorneys General offices. The request includes that an independent panel of pathologists review the cases and confirm that a correct conclusion was made as to cause of death for each of the cases.

There were two main issues raised by the letter. The first was that there was no medical evidence that George Floyd’s death was caused in any way by the presence of carbon monoxide. The second issue is that it was inappropriate to classify Mr. Floyd’s death as undetermined. The doctors also reviewed two medical journal articles examining conclusions reached by the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME). The fact that Dr. Fowler came to these incorrect conclusions, combined with these articles led them to conclude that, “There is a genuine concern that there may be an inappropriate classification of deaths in custody by the Maryland OCME as either Accident or Undetermined to purposefully usurp a manner of death classification of Homicide.” If I am reading this correctly, it means that these doctors are seeing conclusions from in-custody deaths that are not consistent with accepted medical practices. Further, there is doubt as to their scientific accuracy, and that there is the real possibility that these conclusions are intended to prevent accusations that the deaths were the result of homicides.

As a result of this letter, the Attorney General of Maryland has agreed to an independent review of in-custody death conclusions made under the tenure of Dr. Fowler.

A numbers (sic) of corrective measures were requested in the letter, which essentially accuses Dr. Fowler of malpractice. Among these steps are an independent multi-disciplinary panel to evaluate in-custody deaths, a new box on death certificate’s indicating an in-custody death, and a review of Dr. Fowler’s medical license. The article does not state whether any of these other options are also being considered, either by the state or by federal authorities.
I find this to be encouraging. A letter from 458 physicians is powerful and cannot be ignored. Fowler should be nervous.
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Re: Shot While Black

#19

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FBI opens civil rights investigation into police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr.
The FBI's Charlotte field office confirmed they have opened a federal civil rights investigation into last week's police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr., according to an FBI spokesperson.

"Agents will work closely with the US Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of North Carolina and the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice to determine whether federal laws were violated. As this is an ongoing investigation, we cannot comment further," the statement says.

Brown, a 42-year-old Black man in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, was fatally shot in the back of the head while he tried to drive away from Pasquotank County sheriff's deputies, who had already shot him four times in the right arm, family attorney Wayne Kendall said Tuesday, citing a private autopsy of Brown's body.

"He was trying to run because he was scared for his life," Kendall said in a press conference.

The shot to the head caused Brown to lose control of his vehicle and crash into a tree, Kendall said. A copy of his death certificate says he died within minutes due to the gunshot wound of the head.

The Pasquotank County sheriff has said deputies fatally shot Brown as they attempted to execute a warrant. Harry Daniels, another attorney for the family, said Brown was unarmed at the time deputies opened fire.

The private autopsy, performed by Dr. Brent Hall, adds key details to last Wednesday's shooting, which has spurred protests over the authorities' lack of transparency. A curfew was put in place for Elizabeth City starting Tuesday night at 8 p.m., according to an announcement by Pasquotank County.

The Sheriff's Office has released little information about the shooting and say they are legally prevented from publicly releasing body camera footage without a court order. The few things they have released have not answered the questions surrounding the shooting.

On Monday, Brown's family and attorney Chantel Cherry-Lassiter were privately shown a 20-second clip of the video from one deputy's body camera, which they said shows an "execution."

"Yesterday, I said I thought he was executed," Brown's son Khalil Ferebee said Tuesday. "It's obvious he was trying to get away. It's obvious. And they gonna shoot him in the back of the head? Man, that sh** not right. That's not right at all, man."

The Pasquotank County Sheriff's Office said the county attorney filed a motion Monday with the court to release the video publicly, and a media coalition that includes CNN has also filed a petition for the release of the video.

However, in a video statement posted to Facebook, Pasquotank Sheriff Tommy Wooten tried to downplay the videos' importance.

"This tragic incident was quick and over in less than 30 seconds, and body cameras are shaky and sometimes hard to decipher. They only tell part of the story," he said.

The fatal shooting came just a day after former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd. Still, the law enforcement killings of Brown, as well as others in Ohio and Virginia in the last week, highlight the pervasiveness of police violence in America.

The continued delay in releasing video of Brown's death also highlights the increasing importance of body cameras for transparency and accountability.

"We got a little bit of evidence, but that wasn't enough for us," Ferebee told CNN's Anderson Cooper. "We're heartbroken."

What we know about the shooting

In dispatch audio from April 21, first responders can be heard saying a man had gunshot wounds to the back.

Cherry-Lassiter said the footage she saw of the shooting showed an "execution." Brown was seen in his driveway, blocked in by the sheriff's department, sitting with his hands on the steering wheel, she said.

"He wasn't reaching for anything, he wasn't touching anything, he wasn't throwing anything around," she said.

Deputies ran up to his car, shooting as Brown put the vehicle in reverse and backed out of the driveway, she said. Deputies continued to shoot at him as he drove off, Cherry-Lassiter said.

"What the 20 seconds shows is that Andrew Brown is not a threat to officers," Cherry-Lassiter told CNN on Tuesday. "As he was being shot at, Andrew was trying to back away from the officers and save his life, save his own life."

CNN has not seen the video and has not been able to independently verify the family attorneys' account of the video. Chief Deputy Daniel Fogg said it would be inappropriate to comment on the case until all the evidence is collected.

Protesters and attorneys for the family have criticized the lack of public information and the snippet of video provided to the family.

"They are trying to hide something," civil rights attorney Ben Crump said. "They don't want us to see everything."

Separate video released publicly Monday by a bystander shows Brown's car stopped near a tree and surrounded by several officers.

Seven deputies have been placed on administrative leave following the shooting, two others have resigned and one deputy retired, Wooten said. Not all the deputies who were placed on administrative leave discharged their firearms, he added, but they were all part of the warrant operation.

What authorities have released:

Pasquotank County sheriff's deputies were authorized to look for crack cocaine, other controlled substances and "evidence of criminal activity" in Brown's two vehicles and his residence, according to a search warrant signed by a judge on April 20.


The copy of the search warrant obtained by CNN was marked as "not executed." In the first news conference about Brown's death, Wooten said Brown was killed as deputies were attempting to execute the search warrant, but he later stated Brown was killed as deputies served an arrest warrant.

CNN has not been able to obtain the arrest warrant.

According to the search warrant, PCSO Investigator D. Ryan Meads received information from the Dare County Narcotics Task Force in March of 2021 "regarding the illegal sales of controlled narcotics by Andrew Brown residing on Perry St. in Elizabeth City."

The task force had been in touch with an informant who claimed to have been buying drugs from Brown for over a year, including at his home or at motels/hotels, according to the warrant.

However, Brown's aunt Betty Banks said the family was told that authorities did not find any drugs or weapons in Brown's car or in his house.

Elizabeth City declared a state of emergency Monday morning amid concerns that the video's release could lead to civil unrest. According to the city's emergency proclamation, city officials will also file a formal request with the sheriff's office for the public release of the video.

"It seems likely that the video and audio footage will be released in the very near future. In order to ensure the safety of our citizens and their property, City officials realize there may be a potential period of unrest within the City following the public release of the footage," the proclamation says.

Marchers in Elizabeth City demonstrated Monday night outside Pasquotank County Attorney Michael Cox's home, organizer Kirk Rivers and other protestors told CNN.

Protesters stayed for about 15 minutes, chanting "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" as well as "Black Lives Matter" and "Andrew Brown." The march then headed toward the sheriff's office.
So, a few days ago, the PD said they would release the footage of Brown's death on April 26. Now we find out they didn't petition the court about releasing the footage until ... April 26. :mad:
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Re: Shot While Black

#20

Post by sugar magnolia »

LM K wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:50 pm FBI opens civil rights investigation into police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr.

Just one more reason to try to delay release of the video. Maybe the Feds will nut up and release it.
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Re: Shot While Black

#21

Post by LM K »

sugar magnolia wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:34 pm
LM K wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:50 pm FBI opens civil rights investigation into police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr.

Just one more reason to try to delay release of the video. Maybe the Feds will nut up and release it.
:pray:
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Re: Shot While Black

#22

Post by RVInit »

LM K wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:46 am https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/4 ... vin-Expert
Maryland to Reexamine Cases Headed by Chauvin Expert

An open letter signed by at least 458 physicians asking that a review of all in custody cases taking place between 2003 and 2020 was sent to the United States and Maryland Attorneys General offices. The request includes that an independent panel of pathologists review the cases and confirm that a correct conclusion was made as to cause of death for each of the cases.
:snippity:
I find this to be encouraging. A letter from 458 physicians is powerful and cannot be ignored. Fowler should be nervous.
This Dr is being sued by a few of the families involved in these in-custody deaths. Including a young man who died in a manner eerily similar to what happened to George Floyd. A young man with no pre-existing medical conditions or drugs in his system. He was subjected to the same treatment as Floyd suffered, and this medical examiner determined his manner of death as "undetermined". Apparently every case involving a person dying in law enforcement custody was "undetermined" manner of death. Ooops.

I think/hope Chauvin's other "expert" witness may also suffer as a result of the publicity of his ridiculous testimony. Any agency that hires that idiot to conduct officer training would be asking for trouble, IMO.
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Re: Shot While Black

#23

Post by LM K »

RVInit wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:13 pm
LM K wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm
I find this to be encouraging. A letter from 458 physicians is powerful and cannot be ignored. Fowler should be nervous.
This Dr is being sued by a few of the families involved in these in-custody deaths. Including a young man who died in a manner eerily similar to what happened to George Floyd. A young man with no pre-existing medical conditions or drugs in his system. He was subjected to the same treatment as Floyd suffered, and this medical examiner determined his manner of death as "undetermined". Apparently every case involving a person dying in law enforcement custody was "undetermined" manner of death. Ooops.

I think/hope Chauvin's other "expert" witness may also suffer as a result of the publicity of his ridiculous testimony. Any agency that hires that idiot to conduct officer training would be asking for trouble, IMO.
Iirc, that's true. How disturbing.
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Re: Shot While Black

#24

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no ... s-n1265624
ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. - A judge on Wednesday rejected bids to have body camera footage of sheriff's deputies shooting Andrew Brown Jr. released to the public — but said the man's family would be allowed to view it.

Superior Court Judge Jeff Foster said turning over footage to news media could affect a potential trial of law enforcement officers who opened fire while serving a warrant on the 42-year-old Black man in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

“The release at this time would create a serious threat to the fair, impartial and orderly administration of justice,” Foster ruled from the bench. “Confidentiality is necessary to protect either an active internal or criminal investigation or a potential internal or criminal investigation.”

But Foster ordered the sheriff to allow Brown's immediate family and lawyer to privately view body-cam footage from four deputies within the next 10 days. He ordered the sheriff to blur faces or name tags of deputies involved before showing footage to Brown's family.

The judge also said he'd revisit the issue in 30 to 45 days once investigations of the incident are completed.

The court will, in its discretion, consider at that time further release of the video based on the factors as they exist at that time," Foster said.

Brown's family took little solace in Judge Foster's ruling that'll allow only private viewing of footage.

Lillie Brown-Clark, Brown's aunt, said it'll be up to those few people allowed to see the tape to now speak on Brown's behalf.

“Andrew has been deliberately silenced. His voice now will be the cameras and the family and the attorneys. But we must hear what he has to say by looking at those cameras,” Brown-Clark told NBC News at Brown's home Wednesday afternoon.

“And I don’t know why law enforcement people have this weird obsession with killing our Black men. It just doesn’t make any sense.”

In many states, law enforcement footage, such as video shot from the dashboard of police cars or officers' body cameras, is considered a public record, creating a defined, simple path for that to be publicly released.

But that's not the case in North Carolina, which requires a judge's order to allow such footage to see sunshine.

District Attorney Andrew Womble also said Brown’s car can be seen in footage moving backward and then forward, each time making contact with officers.

“As it backs up it does make contact with law enforcement officers,” Womble said. “At this point, the car is stationary. There is no movement and officers are positioned around the car. The next movement of the car is forward, it is in the direction of law enforcement and makes contact with law enforcement. It is then and only then that you hear shots.”

Attorney Michael J. Tadych, who is representing news media outlets, said there is an "absolute public interest" in releasing the recordings.

"The petitioners are not here to indict or vindicate law enforcement. The petitioners are not here to indict or vindicate Mr. Brown,” Tadych said.

“They are here in the interest of advocating for transparency in the hopes of aiding a national conversation we find ourselves in about citizens’ interaction with police.”

Pasquotank County Attorney R. Michael Cox said the sheriff's office supports release of videos.

He said that disclosure will “give the public some ability to understand what happened that day.”

“We want to protect the independent investigations by the SBI as well as the FBI," Cox said. "However we do not believe the release of this footage will impeded those inquiries in any way.”

But Womble opposed the immediate release of footage, supporting just a private showing to Brown's family.

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He said widespread dissemination would hurt his chances of seeking a fair, possible trial against deputies.

"You cannot swing a skunk in front of a group of people and ask them not to smell it," Womble argued.

The prosecutor promised to make a decision on possible charges in 30 days, when he'd either release all recordings or hold them back for trial.

And attorney H.P. Williams, representing law enforcement involved in the arrest, said his clients also oppose release of footage.

"The officers are very distraught over what happened," William said. "They feel for the family of Andrew Brown."

But Williams added: "We believe the shooting was justified."

Clarissa Brown-Gibson, 67, another aunt of Brown's, bristled that video of the incident won't be immediately released — and criticized Womble and Williams for their comments about her nephew in open court.

“While we was at court, the lawyers for the police said (the shooting) was justified. Now how is it justified to kill an unarmed Black man?” Brown-Gibson said after the hearing.

Law enforcement is still allowed to show, privately, such video to family members of those in police footage but that's still within discretion of that agency.

The Brown family said Pasquotank County Sheriff's deputies on Monday showed them just 20 seconds of last week's deadly confrontation.

Brown was fatally shot when deputies sought to arrest him on felony drug charges.

The Pasquotank County Sheriff's Office filed a petition with the court late Monday requesting permission to release recordings to Brown's adult son, Ferebee.

Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten pleaded for patience Monday, saying independent investigators need to examine all the evidence. He defended the short video that was shown to the family.

"This tragic incident was quick and over in less than 30 seconds, and body cameras are shaky and sometimes hard to decipher," Wooten said. "They only tell part of the story. Outside investigators both from SBI [the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation] and four other sheriff's offices are interviewing witnesses and gathering more information."

He was shot five times, four times in the right arm and then once in a fatal wound to the back of his head, according to an autopsy commissioned by the family.

Brown's death is the latest police killing of a Black man that's raised questions about police use of force, especially in cases involving racial minorities.

The death of George Floyd in Minneapolis a year ago touched off a summer of international protests against police brutality and institutional racism. Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of Floyd's murder last week.

John Jay College of Criminal Justice professor Gloria Browne-Marshall said body-camera footage is crucial technology in Brown's case and many others, just to establish a baseline of facts.

"We, being the community at large including the legal community, are asking for body-camera video to know what took place at the scene, since usually it's one person's word against the other and the other person is dead," said Browne-Marshall, who teaches constitutional law, policing in the minority community and rules of evidence.

Deon J. Hampton reported from Elizabeth City, North Carolina, and David K. Li from New York.

Deon J. Hampton
Deon J. Hampton is a national reporter for NBC News, based in Cincinnati.

Image: David K. Li
David K. Li
David K. Li is a breaking news reporter for NBC News.

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Absolute, unadulterated bullshit. 30-45 days and he'll revisit the issue? The media has no standing? It will interfere with an investigation? And yet the DA doesn't mind making statements about what is on the video. You just can't see it for yourself so take his word for it. And an additional 10 days for them to show it to the family?

Fuck that judge and that DA and anybody else involved in hiding this video. I'm hoping someone can appeal the decision, or take it to another judge or something.
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Re: Shot While Black

#25

Post by RVInit »

Isn't North Carolina the same state where a judge determined that legislators had "targeted African Americans with surgical precision" when devising new "voter id" laws that disenfranchised black voters after Obama was elected?

It comes as no surprise these same people would decide Ok, we will have police officers wear body cameras, but we will make it hard for anyone to actually see what's on those cameras.
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