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trump (the former guy, defamer, insurrectionist, and rapist - $83M)

Abandon reality, all ye who enter here. *Democracy*Under*Threat*
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pipistrelle
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5501

Post by pipistrelle »

Wonder if it's possible to photocopy classified documents. I'd hope not but.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5502

Post by noblepa »

bob wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:40 am
pipistrelle wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:26 am What's to have kept tfg from hiding documents in, say, the larder, or other places unlikely to be searched?
A search warrants is, contrary to what the name might suggest, an authorization to search for things, and not just authorization to search places.

So the warrant doesn't say, you may search the kitchen but not the bathroom. It says you may look for documents (for example), which means you may look for documents in all places at the location in which a document could reasonably be stored. So agents may open your spouse's closet, but not your spouse's jewelry box.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if this warrant expressly authorized popping the safe.

* * *
Suranis wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:57 am would DeSantis have had to know about this
No. Cooperation between different jurisdictions' law enforcement agencies does happen, but it isn't necessary.

Especially when the target is a person in politics or otherwise notable. OpSec means limiting those who need to know.

* * *

I see he picked up on the NY Post's whine that his lawyers were booted from the premises. A line that will play great with the masses, but is laughable for anyone who knows anything about how searches are actually conducted.
I actually worked for a county government agency that was raided by the FBI and IRS. They were investigating corruption in the county government (Cuyahoga County, Ohio, which includes Cleveland).

We came in one morning and several men and women in blue windbreakers with "FBI" or "IRS" on the back, met us at the door and herded everyone into the lunchroom. We had no managers there at the time, so we didn't know if we were allowed to go home. Someone asked the agent who was proctoring us in the lunchroom if we could leave. His response was "I can't tell you that, but I can tell you, you're not going to your desks".

So, yeah, it seems to be SOP for the FBI to exclude everyone from the search area. To me, it only makes sense. If you're searching for evidence, you don't want people running around, possibly destroying or obfuscating evidence, or even letting someone outside know that the search is going on.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5503

Post by much ado »

pipistrelle wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:55 pm Wonder if it's possible to photocopy classified documents. I'd hope not but.
My guess is that the pages would have at least a EURion constellation background print. This pattern of circles is found on US banknotes and many foreign banknotes. Modern photocopiers will detect the pattern and refuse to make a copy. I bet there are other tricks as well.
The EURion constellation (also known as Omron rings[1] or doughnuts[2]) is a pattern of symbols incorporated into a number of secure documents such as banknotes and ownership title certificates designs worldwide since about 1996. It is added to help imaging software detect the presence of such a document in a digital image. Such software can then block the user from reproducing banknotes to prevent counterfeiting using colour photocopiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

The article mentions other mechanisms...
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5504

Post by noblepa »

MN-Skeptic wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:43 pm
Slim Cognito wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:47 pm A basement in Florida? That is pretty ritzy.
I was curious so I did some looking.

One article - Mar-a-Lago security: How safe is President Trump's property? says:
Author Ronald Kessler is a frequent visitor to Mar-a-Lago who has written books about Trump's tenure in the White House and the Secret Service. He says he knows the club is secure.

“If Trump wants to look at classified material. He looks at it in a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility), which protects against electronic intrusions in the basement,” said Kessler.
A couple of other articles mention that there are three bomb shelters at MAL. I wonder if all of these rooms were included in the search of the basement.
It doesn't seem like a very good SCIF, if the government had to ask that a padlock be installed.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5505

Post by noblepa »

pipistrelle wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:54 pm Yeah, there was the marketing data company CEO who pleaded guilty. The small business owners-think they're genius entrepreneurs like their hero. Some were boys who achieved an age of majority and maturity but looked like they live in their mother's basement.

To me it's not about blue-collar jobs or struggling to get by or toothless hillbillies or rural vs. urban or old vs. young (plenty of both left and right). It's almost 100 percent about white people feeling that privilege slipping away and thinking tfg is going to "save [white] America." Mix in some fake Christian piety and the prosperity bible, and you have a fascist movement tied up in a bow. That may not match everyone, and some people may not admit that's what drives them, but that's my sense for most of them.
:yeahthat:

Back in 2015, when TFG began his run and came up with the phrase "Make America Great Again", it was pointed out that many of his supporters actually heard it as "Make America White Again".
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5506

Post by pipistrelle »

much ado wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:14 pm
pipistrelle wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:55 pm Wonder if it's possible to photocopy classified documents. I'd hope not but.
My guess is that the pages would have at least a EURion constellation background print. This pattern of circles is found on US banknotes and many foreign banknotes. Modern photocopiers will detect the pattern and refuse to make a copy. I bet there are other tricks as well.
The EURion constellation (also known as Omron rings[1] or doughnuts[2]) is a pattern of symbols incorporated into a number of secure documents such as banknotes and ownership title certificates designs worldwide since about 1996. It is added to help imaging software detect the presence of such a document in a digital image. Such software can then block the user from reproducing banknotes to prevent counterfeiting using colour photocopiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

The article mentions other mechanisms...
I figured that, and I think blue doesn't photocopy. Why not just have someone copy it by hand the old-fashioned way? I'm just trying to think of ways tfg could have sold info.

Remember when the guy was carrying the nuclear football around among the club members? Good times.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5507

Post by MN-Skeptic »



Dang, that looks an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal. I refuse to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5508

Post by Gregg »

p0rtia wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:35 pm :yeahthat:
:yeahthat:

The "blue collar guy afraid of losing his job" crap is lazy and ignorant reportage. We got it endlessly during 2016, along with a lot of other crap ("libs lose on the cultural issues" etc). Then the analysis happened and lo and behold, that wasn't the demographic at all. It was middle glass and upper middle class racists.

But still they repeat this shit.
This!

Yo, pro tip...

They're racist who spent 8 years stewing over a black man being President and after 50 years of being the Republican Party's dark little secret base, Trump empowered them to fly their flag, sing their songs and wear their robes and hoods.

Down and out... the Klan ran the post Confederacy south, the white sharecroppers didn't join up until the rich folk needed some peasants to catch bullets.
Supreme Commander, Imperial Illuminati Air Force
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5509

Post by Greatgrey »

Sam the Centipede wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm If I didn't know how decent and honorable Fogfolk are, I'd suspect some of you are enjoying watching that nice Mr. Trump's difficulties in his Mierda Larga!

But I know you all really sympathize with the poor guy's plight, being unfairly harassed simply for what? – for just breaking many laws many times!
I’m kinda amazed nobody in MAGALand ever read Rule 41.

Seriously
What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5510

Post by much ado »

pipistrelle wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:26 pm
[...snip...]

I figured that, and I think blue doesn't photocopy. Why not just have someone copy it by hand the old-fashioned way? I'm just trying to think of ways tfg could have sold info.

Remember when the guy was carrying the nuclear football around among the club members? Good times.
Well, taking snapshots of pages with a cell phone would also work pretty well, no matter what colors or security dots were on the pages. And the images could be texted across the globe in minutes. So I guess security mechanisms on plain-text pages would not be very effective. It would be easy for him to transfer the information.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5511

Post by RVInit »

There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
--Colin Kaepernick
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5512

Post by bob »

much ado wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:46 am Well, taking snapshots of pages with a cell phone would also work pretty well, no matter what colors or security dots were on the pages. And the images could be texted across the globe in minutes. So I guess security mechanisms on plain-text pages would not be very effective. It would be easy for him to transfer the information.
Given how easy it would be to copy or transcribe the documents (and then return them), another possible motive for keeping them was to prevent anyone else from seeing them.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5513

Post by Kriselda Gray »

That column from the Shovel was great - thanks for sharing it!
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5514

Post by RVInit »

On Monday at about 10 a.m. EST, two dozen FBI agents and technicians showed up at Donald Trump's Florida home to execute a search warrant to obtain any government-owned documents that might be in the possession of Trump but are required to be delivered to the Archives under the provisions of the 1978 Presidential Records Act. (In response to the Hillary Clinton email scandal, Trump himself signed a law in 2018 that made it a felony to remove and retain classified documents.)
:brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall:

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-info ... 1660156939
There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5515

Post by Uninformed »

Warning: pessimistic (but hopefully wrong) opinion.
There appears to be some hope that holding tfg accountable for what seems to be reasonably certain lawbreaking could in some way be part of, or begin, the process of reestablishing a more civil/ethical society.
In the event that tfg is indicted for one or more offences and goes on trial, despite probably/possibly overwhelmingly conclusive evidence of his guilt, would any empanelled jury convict? I seriously doubt it.
I’m not suggesting that the situation is hopeless and nothing can or should be done, but when there is such divisive political/social polarisation, with a large percentage of the population seemingly immune to any rational discourse (fuelled by social/mass media mis/disinformation ranging from the sloppy, to lazy, to deliberate), how does a country heal itself?
:?:
If you can't lie to yourself, who can you lie to?
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5516

Post by pipistrelle »

bob wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:16 am
much ado wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:46 am Well, taking snapshots of pages with a cell phone would also work pretty well, no matter what colors or security dots were on the pages. And the images could be texted across the globe in minutes. So I guess security mechanisms on plain-text pages would not be very effective. It would be easy for him to transfer the information.
Given how easy it would be to copy or transcribe the documents (and then return them), another possible motive for keeping them was to prevent anyone else from seeing them.
I thought about that too. Like that conversation with the Russians that there's no record of.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5517

Post by Foggy »

Uninformed wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:06 am ... when there is such divisive political/social polarisation, with a large percentage of the population seemingly immune to any rational discourse (fuelled by social/mass media mis/disinformation ranging from the sloppy, to lazy, to deliberate), how does a country heal itself?
:?:
I don't know, but I suspect we're going to have new information about this soon. The answer might be civil war, or at least major disturbances. As noted above, many, many of the MAGATs are spoiled racist babies. Maybe we will have to imprison a lot of them before the others shut up. Or maybe worse. I think it's prudent to prepare for worse. I'm in a dark place.
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5518

Post by Dr. Ken »



That's a lot of 5th pleading
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5519

Post by Dr. Ken »

These people are so far gone
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5520

Post by Suranis »

RVInit wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:47 pm I lasted up until 35 minutes into that CNN panel and had to stop.

Sorry...here comes a rant. Skip over if you don't want to read angry words.

I am so damn sick and tired of hearing people say that the reason Trump snared a following is because of all the people who have been "beaten down by life", "the system isn't working for them", etc, etc.

Bull freaking shit. One of my sisters and her husband are MAGAts. During Obama's eight years in office she had the best, most high paying job she's ever had up to this point. Every single year she and her husband were able to afford to take a two week vacation down in the Keys, stay in a really nice bed and breakfast right on the beach, take their boat out to the ocean and fish and snorkel. Every. Single. Year. She was not "down and out", "beaten down by life", "stomped on by the government". And neither the fuck are any of his goddam base. Look at all these insurrectionists and all these people who travel all over the country attending every damn rally. They are all business owners. Some of them fly private planes from rally to rally and to DC to participate in the insurrection. I know we like to make fun of his base like they are all toothless hillbillies, and yes, some of them are. But just about every damn one that I personally know are people who had damn good jobs, made lots of money, have a nice late model car in their driveway for every single adult that lives in their home, they have boats in their garages, and own nice RVs. It is bull freaking shit that his base are a bunch of down and outers. They are mostly a bunch of people who enjoy white privilege and what they really like about Trump is he says the things they think and were too scared to say out loud themselves. The racist stuff in particular.
Ya I';ve mentioned this several times on the zoom meetups, and I posted an article saying this on the oldbow, but the prevailing myth seems to be that minorities and women rose up and kicked the old blustering fool out. Bull shit. Minorities actually voted for trump 2% more than 2016. What actually happened is that his vote among white men went down 8%. It was white men who saw through his bullshit and gave him the eviction notice. And didn't get the credit as it interferes with the script and might force people to *choke* think and alter their worldview a bit. Who cares if it's true?

But I think the reason why the "its lower class people who went trump" Myth is so sticky is because people don't like the fact that it is Middle class people who love trump. (a) That's where the "Liberals" are supposed to be and (b) it allows people to sneer down at the Trump voter rather than see the trump voter as being of the same class as themselves.

What actually is that Middle class people, liberal or conservative, tend to be angry intolerant shitheads. They are just above the Proles but still part of the shitty masses, not the high lifers they want to be. So, they tend to go into angry outrage bubbles where they can lash out and look down at other people and bask in their righteousness and superiority. The trump Voter being a middle class slob like themselves does not fit into the script.

People will believe pretty much anything if it lets them be superior to other people. Another one is how people cling to the idea that people thought the Earth was flat in the Middle ages.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5521

Post by pipistrelle »

I wish that were performance art.

For years I kept reading that the generations after the Boomers were less racist, more open to equality for people of different races, gender identities, sexual preferences, etc. How has it come to this? (Yeah, I know, Fox, etc.). Still.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5522

Post by pipistrelle »

Suranis wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:00 am But I think the reason why the "its lower class people who went trump" Myth is so sticky is because people don't like the fact that it is Middle class people who love trump. (a) That's where the "Liberals" are supposed to be and (b) it allows people to sneer down at the Trump voter rather than see the trump voter as being of the same class as themselves.

What actually is that Middle class people, liberal or conservative, tend to be angry intolerant shitheads. They are just above the Proles but still part of the shitty masses, not the high lifers they want to be. So, they tend to go into angry outrage bubbles where they can lash out and look down at other people and bask in their righteousness and superiority. The trump Voter being a middle class slob like themselves does not fit into the script.
Lot of truth to this, Lots of anger among people who aren't poor, aren't underfed, have good houses and cars, aren't suffering. That's what pisses me off. I'm in a good place, with some concerns about staying funded during retirement, and that means I want to live the best life I can and be generous where I can because not everyone is in a good place. The only things I feel anger about are the constant crapping on the country, the environment, the climate, etc. And I know where that crap comes from. From the same people who are well off and have time to do damage I'm not in a place to undo.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5523

Post by Slim Cognito »

Just my arrogant opinion but since trump won't release the warrant and/or receipt, the plan is to prod the FBI to do so, (knowing they won't) but just in case they did, they can claim the warrant/receipt are faked, not what they actually took.

Also, why bring stuff in via backpacks to plant when you're taking the boxes back to secure offices where planting stuff would be a lot easier.l

Also too, they were in talks to get the remaining materials back. Was "put on a padlock on the door" a fakeout to alleviate any fears they may raid the house at a later time, thus preventing him from moving the docs?
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5524

Post by bob »

Dr. Ken wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:48 am

That's a lot of 5th pleading
Like two full Zullos of Fifthing.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#5525

Post by Kendra »


Latest from Atlanta: Donald Trump has hired a lawyer in the Georgia elections investigation who has called him "the racist architect of fraudulent Trump University.” w/
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