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Confederate monuments

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Re: Confederate monuments

#51

Post by Foggy »

Oh man, they're gonna turn him into PupPeroni. :shock:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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Re: Confederate monuments

#52

Post by Volkonski »



Good.

Gets me thinking about when we students would sing northern Civil War songs at school Memorial Day ceremonies.

I was nine years old and in the 4th grade at the time of the 100th anniversary of the start of the war.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#53

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Confederate monuments

#54

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Confederate monuments

#55

Post by Maybenaut »

🎶 “Vergil, quick come see… ” 🎵
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Re: Confederate monuments

#56

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Confederate monuments

#57

Post by Gregg »

If they statue rises in 3 days, I'll listen to them.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#58

Post by p0rtia »

:rimshot:
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Re: Confederate monuments

#59

Post by Maybenaut »

There are two confederate monuments in the town of Luray. For years the town has been paying for the upkeep, but it turns out that neither statue nor the property on which it sits is owned by the town. One statue is owned by the family of the sculptor, and the other is owned by the Virginia Historical Society.

This was discovered when both statues were vandalized in June if 2020 and some folks apparently complained that town resources were being used for the upkeep and restoration of private property. I personally find it hard to believe that the town didn’t know it didn’t own the property.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#60

Post by Gregg »

Maybenaut wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:27 pm There are two confederate monuments in the town of Luray. For years the town has been paying for the upkeep, but it turns out that neither statue nor the property on which it sits is owned by the town. One statue is owned by the family of the sculptor, and the other is owned by the Virginia Historical Society.

This was discovered when both statues were vandalized in June if 2020 and some folks apparently complained that town resources were being used for the upkeep and restoration of private property. I personally find it hard to believe that the town didn’t know it didn’t own the property.
They may have, or may have at one time and forgot as an institution. Its not uncommon for a donor to pay for a statue and allow a city or museum to display and retain ownership. Some of the Monuments on the battlefield at Gettysburg belong to certain veterans organizations, most of which passed them on the National Military Park when the last veterans of the unit died. The Longstreet memorial, which is fairly new, I think is privately owned.

Anyhow, I have seen public art that is actually privately owned, or the give them the land but not the statue, and if some of the stuff was donated a hundred years ago under those terms, the fact the family gave the land to the town but not the statue might have gotten lost in the records.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#61

Post by RTH10260 »

sorry could not find a US source for this
South Carolina loosens protections for slave-era statues

Nina Lloyd
Thursday September 23 2021, 10.15am BST, The Times

South Carolina’s supreme court has upheld a law protecting Confederate monuments and other statues from sudden removal but ruled that the requirement for a supermajority vote on any changes is “unconstitutional”.

The unanimous decision keeps intact the state’s Heritage Act, which has prevented colleges and local governments from taking down statues of pro-slavery Civil War soldiers or segregationists. The 2000 legislation has protected South Carolina’s Confederacy monuments and street names even as others in the American South have been toppled after last year’s Black Lives Matter protests.

The court ruled that permission from the general assembly was needed before removing statues from state property. However, it struck down as “unconstitutional” a provision of the legislation that required a two-thirds majority vote on any changes.



paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sout ... -jl5l0d3hp
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Re: Confederate monuments

#62

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

https://www.stltoday.com/news/national/ ... 47c.html#1
Photos: Emancipation & Freedom Monument unveiled in Richmond
1 hr ago 0
A monument honoring the abolition of slavery was dedicated on Wednesday in Richmond, Virginia, just two miles from where a hulking statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee once prominently stood.

614c7032e54d5.image.jpg
614c7032e54d5.image.jpg (37.42 KiB) Viewed 2427 times
Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney touched a bronze sculpture following the dedication of the Emancipation and Freedom Monument on Wednesday. The figure is a newly freed man, his chains broken from his wrists.
614c703444ed9.image.jpg
614c703444ed9.image.jpg (80.33 KiB) Viewed 2427 times
The Levitical Priests performs "Lift Every Voice and Sing", also known as the Negro National Anthem, during the Virginia Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Commission's dedication and unveil the Emancipation and Freedom Monument on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at Brown's Island in Richmond, Virginia.


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Re: Confederate monuments

#63

Post by RVInit »

Off Topic
Not entirely off topic, but not sure if I'm risking taking the discussion too far off base. I just wanted to put this in writing.

In some ways I wish I believed that George Floyd is able to see that his death helped to crumble just a little bit more of the white power stranglehold on our country. At least his family can see this, that is something of a blessing.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#64

Post by raison de arizona »

RTH10260 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:00 am sorry could not find a US source for this
South Carolina loosens protections for slave-era statues

Nina Lloyd
Thursday September 23 2021, 10.15am BST, The Times

South Carolina’s supreme court has upheld a law protecting Confederate monuments and other statues from sudden removal but ruled that the requirement for a supermajority vote on any changes is “unconstitutional”.

The unanimous decision keeps intact the state’s Heritage Act, which has prevented colleges and local governments from taking down statues of pro-slavery Civil War soldiers or segregationists. The 2000 legislation has protected South Carolina’s Confederacy monuments and street names even as others in the American South have been toppled after last year’s Black Lives Matter protests.

The court ruled that permission from the general assembly was needed before removing statues from state property. However, it struck down as “unconstitutional” a provision of the legislation that required a two-thirds majority vote on any changes.



paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sout ... -jl5l0d3hp
Yer just too fast, it was still the middle of the night here!
South Carolina Supreme Court Unanimously Upholds Confederate Monument Protection Law

The South Carolina Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a state law prohibiting anyone from moving a Confederate monument or changing the historical name of a street or building without the Legislature’s approval.

However, the unanimous decision also struck down a requirement within South Carolina’s Heritage Act that two-thirds of the General Assembly must approve a move or name change. Yet the justices upheld a clause in the law that said if any part of it was ruled unconstitutional, the rest would stand.

The justices also shot down an argument that the law broke “home rule” in South Carolina by illegally allowing the General Assembly to get involved in local affairs.

“They contend local governments are in a better position to act with regard to this subject because ‘they can be more responsive’ to the thoughts of the community. This may be true, but Home Rule is not about who holds the better wisdom,” Associate Justice John Cannon Few wrote in the 22-page ruling.
:snippity:
https://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-s ... 31715.html
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Re: Confederate monuments

#65

Post by Reality Check »

I keep seeing news articles referring to these as "slave era statues". Wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to these as "Jim Crow segregation era statues". I believe they were almost entirely erected after Reconstruction ended and the Jim Crow era began.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#66

Post by raison de arizona »

Reality Check wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:37 pm I keep seeing news articles referring to these as "slave era statues". Wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to these as "Jim Crow segregation era statues". I believe they were almost entirely erected after Reconstruction ended and the Jim Crow era began.
Yes.
Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'
:snippity:
Yet many historians say the argument about preserving Southern history doesn't hold up when you consider the timing of when the "beautiful" statues, as Trump called them, went up.

"Most of the people who were involved in erecting the monuments were not necessarily erecting a monument to the past," said Jane Dailey, an associate professor of history at the University of Chicago."But were rather, erecting them toward a white supremacist future."

The most recent comprehensive study of Confederate statues and monuments across the country was published by the Southern Poverty Law Center last year. A look at this chart shows huge spikes in construction twice during the 20th century: in the early 1900s, and then again in the 1950s and 60s. Both were times of extreme civil rights tension.
Image
In the early 1900s, states were enacting Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise black Americans. In the middle part of the century, the civil rights movement pushed back against that segregation.
:snippity:
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/54426688 ... ist-future
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Re: Confederate monuments

#67

Post by Reality Check »

Thank you for so clearly quantifying my point! :thumbsup:
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Re: Confederate monuments

#68

Post by bill_g »

RVInit wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:21 pm
Off Topic
Not entirely off topic, but not sure if I'm risking taking the discussion too far off base. I just wanted to put this in writing.

In some ways I wish I believed that George Floyd is able to see that his death helped to crumble just a little bit more of the white power stranglehold on our country. At least his family can see this, that is something of a blessing.
He paid a mighty price at the Altar of Freedom, but it had great dividends. Let it not be squandered.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#69

Post by John Thomas8 »

An interesting look at monuments in New Orleans:

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Re: Confederate monuments

#70

Post by Gregg »

Robert Pike was a nasty POS.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#71

Post by John Thomas8 »

Gregg wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:21 pm Robert Pike was a nasty POS.
Atun made that clear. Almost as bad as woodrow wilson.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#72

Post by raison de arizona »

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Confederate monuments

#73

Post by neeneko »

I firmly believe that if we are going to keep any monument to confederate leaders, that should be the one.
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Re: Confederate monuments

#74

Post by RVInit »

At least the statue makes him look like the crazed asshole he likely was
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Re: Confederate monuments

#75

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

It's like Colonel Sanders and The Burger King had an unholy union.
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