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Another Shooting

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MN-Skeptic
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Re: Another Shooting

#801

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:36 pm
MN-Skeptic wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:16 pm Mall of America on lock down right now after shots heard. Developing situation.
Mall of America….

I would expect the sound of gunfire would be just par for course.

Perhaps gunfire should be the new US national anthem.

:( :( :(
I don't know what the annual number of visitors is now with Covid, but before Covid the Mall of America averaged 40 million visitors per year. It really is quite safe. It's less than 7 miles from my house and I don't feel concerned about shopping there at any time.
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Re: Another Shooting

#802

Post by Dave from down under »

I was being despondent

It’s been a while since anyone I know have seen the US as the “shining beacon on the hill”…

Instead the view is it is a failing state defined by violence at home and overseas.
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Re: Another Shooting

#803

Post by MN-Skeptic »

I know that the United States is portrayed as The Wild West, but most areas are really pretty safe. Yes, I really, really wish there were fewer guns around, but most of us are not directly impacted by gun violence.

They are lifting the lock down at the Mall, but the Mall will be closed for the rest of the day. At this point no victim has been found and it appears that the shooter has fled. There will be an update from the police at 8pm CDT.
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Re: Another Shooting

#804

Post by Foggy »

Dave from down under wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:47 pm I was being despondent

It’s been a while since anyone I know have seen the US as the “shining beacon on the hill”…

Instead the view is it is a failing state defined by violence at home and overseas.
That's partly true, and mostly untrue.

We have problems. Serious, serious problems.

But we're still America.

You should have been on the Virtual Meetup this week, JohnPCapitalist gave us a webinar on the structural issues with the Chinese economy.

The EU is in a better place than we are (or the UK)(and it's hard for me to understand what goes on in Oz). We took two steps backwards in 2016 and haven't fully recovered.

But history only moves in one direction, and that's FORWARD.

Look at the progress we've made in my lifetime. :shock: Do you know what America was like in 1952?
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Re: Another Shooting

#805

Post by Foggy »

Yeah, to follow up on that, I suspect there were plenty of shootings in this great land of ours in 1952, but there was not a worldwide instant information datanet so that anything that happens in East Bumfuck, New Jersey is immediately known everywhere.

Are people crazier? Are we more violent today?

It's a judgment call, but on Fogbow we focus on the worst of the worst pieholes we can find. It's hard to refrain from extrapolating to the whole society.
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Re: Another Shooting

#806

Post by Foggy »

Last thought - if you want to see the good people in this great land of ours, go to the scene of a large natural disaster. Earthquake, hurricane, tornado, whatever.

That's where they are.

There will be grifters and crooks, too also, of course. But pitch in to help and you will meet magically wonderful people, every single one of them Americans. There's a lot more of them than there are grifters and crooks.
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Re: Another Shooting

#807

Post by bill_g »

Broadway had West Side Story because gangs and violence were not a problem in the 50's. Nobody wrote murder mysteries and police were entirely unnecessary until after Eisenhour. In fact, Moses and the Ten Commandments *never* discussed killing or stealing or anything bad. We didn't have any of these problems until Obama.
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Re: Another Shooting

#808

Post by sugar magnolia »

Foggy wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:25 am Last thought - if you want to see the good people in this great land of ours, go to the scene of a large natural disaster. Earthquake, hurricane, tornado, whatever.

That's where they are.

There will be grifters and crooks, too also, of course. But pitch in to help and you will meet magically wonderful people, every single one of them Americans. There's a lot more of them than there are grifters and crooks.
Not always. Down here in the land of tornadoes and hurricanes, the Mexicans from the chicken plants step up and the Vietnamese shrimpers step up. They act like Americans, but they aren't legally. And it frequently costs them for not staying under the radar as they usually try to do.
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Re: Another Shooting

#809

Post by qbawl »

I remember1952!

I was a second grader and I distinctly remember sheltering in place (hiding under the desk) except it wasn't from threat of a crazed gunman. More a citywide to worldwide existential threat.

The country was less than ½ the current population, so yes there were fewer incidents. A tragedy in Detroit might be reported on the evening news in Chicago but next day coverage was the standard and much more localized. Now if it happens in Portland Maine at 09:00:01 EST folks in Portland Oregon read about it on their phones at 06:00:30 PST. Foggy is right, like time the arrow of progress only has one direction. But unlike the arrow of time, progress is not totally linear nor is it constant. We can fix this we must!
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Re: Another Shooting

#810

Post by Foggy »

Off Topic
sugar magnolia wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:06 am ... the Mexicans from the chicken plants step up and the Vietnamese shrimpers step up. They act like Americans, but they aren't legally.
Oh, those are Americans, IMHO. Americans in spirit, which is what counts. I'll take them and throw out a few people who are legal because they won the lottery and were born here.

Another place to find good Americans - my weightlifting and cardio-kickboxing classes. Everybody there is working hard, and paying money, to improve themselves.

Anyway, sorry for the threadjack, I just reacted when I was reminded how Earthlings who don't live here get an unfavorable opinion based on the news (and frankly, from Fogbow itself, which focuses on the weirdos and whackos of the world).
We now return to the grisly documentation of the shootings that plague our great nation, and the sad, futile, and persistent efforts to do something to stop them. :(
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Re: Another Shooting

#811

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

MN: Yes, I really, really wish there were fewer guns around, but most of us are not directly impacted by gun violence.
I personally know 5 people who have been murdered (1 in the 80's, 2 in the 90's, 2 in the 2000's) and 4 who have committed suicide by gun (1 in the 60's, 1 in the 80's, and 1 in the 90's).

Hubby had a roommate who committed suicide in the 70's.
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Re: Another Shooting

#812

Post by Volkonski »



:roll: If your fries aren't hot enough for you ask that they be replaced. No need to start shooting.
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Re: Another Shooting

#813

Post by neeneko »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:21 pm
MN: Yes, I really, really wish there were fewer guns around, but most of us are not directly impacted by gun violence.
I personally know 5 people who have been murdered (1 in the 80's, 2 in the 90's, 2 in the 2000's) and 4 who have committed suicide by gun (1 in the 60's, 1 in the 80's, and 1 in the 90's).

Hubby had a roommate who committed suicide in the 70's.
Personally, I do not know a single person who has been murdered, committed suicide, or been shot, or shot at, or even shot at anyone.

Part of me is always kinda amazed at just how differnt life experiences can be. I can kinda see why people who have diminished theory of mind jump to the conclusion that other people are being untruthful when they are so discordant.
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Re: Another Shooting

#814

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

I have analyzed over and over my connection to these shootings. I remember being shocked when my law school study group buddy was a shooting victim in the 70's.

Then my babysitter's stepfather committed suicide. My uncle had committed suicide in the 60's. Three of the young men in our neighborhood were shot in public, two of those killings were unrelated to any other criminal activity. The stepmother of child clients killed the father and then herself after a custody case. We thought she was the only stable adult in the children's lives.

My law partner's sister was murdered. I don't know any further details of that and didn't seek them.

I have lived in what I thought were safe neighborhoods and in a safe business. The murders did not occur in the neighborhoods.
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Re: Another Shooting

#815

Post by sugar magnolia »

Trying to count up in my mind how many people I knew personally who have been victims of gun crimes and quit counting after about 20. My highschool boyfriend's brother shot himself while his brother and I were on the phone. Very dear friend set his house on fire then shot himself. Life-long friend of mine lost both of her kids to gun violence, one at 15, the other at 32. 5 kids my kids went to school with have lost their lives to guns. My next door neighbor's oldest niece killed in a drive-by.

And on and on and on........
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Re: Another Shooting

#816

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Does the South have more killings by guns?
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Re: Another Shooting

#817

Post by sugar magnolia »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:05 pm Does the South have more killings by guns?
Yes, and MS is at the top of the list.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-de ... ranked/51/
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Re: Another Shooting

#818

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Thanks, sugar. :biggrin:
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Re: Another Shooting

#819

Post by Phoenix520 »

Most of the people I knew who were taken by violence were knifed. Two friends from high school were killed separately trying to stop a purse snatching in DC. My mommy group friend was stabbed by her husband. The only gun death I can think of is a former boss whose girlfriend (whom I also knew) killed herself while they were talking on the phone.

Sprout knows at least 5 killed with a gun. We live in CA now which is not as gun crazy as some other states.
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Re: Another Shooting

#820

Post by MN-Skeptic »

I lived in an average size town in Wisconsin until I was 13, in an average size town in Iowa after that through college, and in the Twin Cities after college.

I'm 69 years old and I don't personally know anyone who has been shot.
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Re: Another Shooting

#821

Post by Volkonski »

I knew 2 high school classmates who were shot and killed. One, a girl, who was shot sophomore year possibly by her boyfriend. I heard about it on the radio before school the day after it happened. The other was a boy killed shortly after graduation. Apparently he fell in with a bad crowd.

This was in SE Massachusetts.
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Re: Another Shooting

#822

Post by Foggy »

I've never personally known anyone who was shot to death, but ...

My best friend drowned when we were 16. Fell off a sailboat (I thought he could swim).

A good friend was shot in the leg doing a drug deal in our nation's capital, but it was a thru-and-thru that missed all the important stuff so was relatively minor.

I had a gun pointed at me in anger, but he didn't shoot and I walked away from it. That was almost 50 years ago.

I suppose I've lived a somewhat sheltered life, even when I was broke and homeless. :shrug:
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Re: Another Shooting

#823

Post by neeneko »

My experience comes from SouthEast PA/Northern DE region in one of those 'suburban sprawling into rural shifting culture' areas.. lots of McMansions right next to farms. Lots of guns around, but not a huge amount of gun violence.

We had various exchange students come through and they were always surprised that our HS was the most peaceful one they had experienced, at least in the US>
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Re: Another Shooting

#824

Post by Kriselda Gray »

I wrote a couple weeks ago about my friend who killed his neighbor and then went to a mall and killed 2 more, so there's that. My other experience with guns was when i was maybe 14 or 15, and a friend almost shot me in the head showing me her father's gun. She had been showing me how it worked and how you could chamber a round without thinking or realizing there were bullets in the magazine. She got to the part about how you shoot and started by pointing the gun straight at my head. She started pulling the trigger and at the last second, swung her arm out to the side and put a bullet through the bedroom wall, into the bathroom on the other side of it, shattering the mirror and breaking the glass shower door. It then went thru the wall into a walk-in closet and through the opposite wall of the closet, exiting the house and landing somewhere in the front yard.

That left me with a perhaps somewhat unreasonable fear of guns, which has made things at home fun as my husband has found he likes them. He started watching videos on YouTube to educate himself more on both sides of the gun control argument, and came away becoming a mild gun hobbyist. He knows there will be no guns in this home as long as I'm alive, but he goes down to the local shooting range to rent guns there and shoot periodically, and no longer wants to see stringent gun control. That one hurt a bit.
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Re: Another Shooting

#825

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Kriselda Gray wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:09 pm That left me with a perhaps somewhat unreasonable fear of guns,
:o Seems a very reasonable reason for your great to me! :thumbsup:
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