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Ghislaine Maxwell trial

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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#26

Post by Uninformed »

“Prince Andrew's lawyers accept he was served with US case papers”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58682356

“The acceptance of service includes an agreement between the two legal teams of an extension to the deadline by which the prince must file a response.
That response must now be filed to a court in New York by 29 October.”
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#27

Post by raison de arizona »

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#28

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#29

Post by Uninformed »

“ Maxwell: Brother Ian says she will not get fair hearing at trial”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59377699

‘Mr Maxwell was asked if he believes his sister should take the stand in court: "One thing you can say is there's been an awful lot of talking by everybody for the last few years and the voice of Ghislaine has never been heard.
"The family is not going to leave it there. We are taking steps to lodge a complaint with the United Nations working group on arbitrary detention, because America needs to be held to account for the way it is choosing to discriminate against my sister. The treatment meted out to Ghislaine has been appalling."’
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#30

Post by Maybenaut »

Uninformed wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:41 am “ Maxwell: Brother Ian says she will not get fair hearing at trial”:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59377699

‘Mr Maxwell was asked if he believes his sister should take the stand in court: "One thing you can say is there's been an awful lot of talking by everybody for the last few years and the voice of Ghislaine has never been heard.
"The family is not going to leave it there. We are taking steps to lodge a complaint with the United Nations working group on arbitrary detention, because America needs to be held to account for the way it is choosing to discriminate against my sister. The treatment meted out to Ghislaine has been appalling."’
Why would they care? Isn’t the purpose of the working group to promote “the right of anyone deprived of his or her liberty to bring proceedings before a court in order that the court may decide without delay on the lawfulness of the detention and order the release of the individual if the detention is not lawful”? Doesn’t Maxwell, in fact, have a trial date scheduled for later this month? Hasn’t she already had a number of bond hearings?
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#31

Post by Uninformed »

Duh, we all know the duration and conditions of pre-trial detention only matter if you’re well connected (or in some cases white). :mrgreen:
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#32

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Uninformed wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:08 am Duh, we all know the duration and conditions of pre-trial detention only matter if you’re well connected (or in some cases white). :mrgreen:
Indeed, Ms. Maxwell's attorneys need to submit a Writ Of Privilegium Divitis Albique, which is normally automatically granted, albeit with some waiting time (country club membership can assist).
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#33

Post by zekeb »

She should be allowed to walk. Her crimes were no more heinous than those of Rittenhous. :mad:
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#34

Post by Kendra »



Hmmm. I am tempted...Prime Video says I can have the first 3 (or was it 4?) months for $.99.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#35

Post by Kendra »

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gh ... j_JFyGDLRE
The long-awaited trial of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein’s confidant Ghislaine Maxwell, getting underway Monday, can be likened to an iceberg — many of the unanswered questions about their alleged enterprise will remain hidden, for now.

Maxwell, a British socialite who insists she is innocent, is not likely to face questions about allegedly helping Epstein arrange “dates” with women over the age of 18 for a constellation of rich and powerful men. She is also not likely to be questioned about the allegations from an alleged victim who said in a civil lawsuit that Maxwell trafficked her to Britain’s Prince Andrew when she was 17. He has denied the allegations.

Nor is it likely the prosecution will be allowed to delve too deeply into the social and business relationships of Epstein, a multimillionaire financier, with other bold-faced names like former Presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, and Ohio billionaire Leslie Wexner.

Instead, U.S. District Judge Alison Nathan of the Southern District of New York has limited the scope of federal prosecutors by focusing the case against the British socialite-turned-suspect specifically on allegations that she helped Epstein recruit and abuse four underage girls mostly in the 1990s.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#36

Post by LM K »

I'm looking forward to this trial.

Maxwell should never be released from incarceration.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#37

Post by somerset »

LM K wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:39 pm

Maxwell should never be released from incarceration.
Why?

I tend to agree with Zeke - nothing she is accused of is even close to what Rittenhouse did.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#38

Post by bill_g »

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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#39

Post by LM K »

somerset wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:57 pm
LM K wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:39 pm

Maxwell should never be released from incarceration.
Why?

I tend to agree with Zeke - nothing she is accused of is even close to what Rittenhouse did.
:shock:

The Rittenhouse jury got it wrong.

I hope Maxwell's jury gets it right.

And yes, what she did is every bit as evil as what Rittenhouse did. Maxwell engaged in her crimes in a calculated, predatory, and disgusting way.

I don't feel the need to weigh the moral difference between sex trafficking and murder. Both are evils perpetuated against others. Both crimes destroy others.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#40

Post by Foggy »

I sorta see her as far more mundane, which is not to diminish the seriousness of what she did. But I can't see her as some evil plotting crime queen. I think she was in love with the wrong asshole, and he kept manipulating her for many years.

Maybe I don't know all the facts, but I'm under the impression that she mostly obtained underage girls for the asshole and forced them to have sex with him. But that gratified his lust, not hers. What was she getting out of the deal (besides the adrenochrome, of course :roll: )? If all she got was that she stayed as his girlfriend, that's gotta be one of the sickest relationships based on dependency that I ever heard of.

In fact, that's really a demeaning relationship more than anything positive. She had to look in the mirror and say, "You're his procurer, lady, nothing else. He'd rather have one of those than ten of me." That's not good for your self-esteem.

'Course, I'm probably missing some facts. Facts are nice, if I knew any. :think:
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#41

Post by zekeb »

Foggy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm I sorta see her as far more mundane, which is not to diminish the seriousness of what she did. But I can't see her as some evil plotting crime queen. I think she was in love with the wrong asshole, and he kept manipulating her for many years.

Maybe I don't know all the facts, but I'm under the impression that she mostly obtained underage girls for the asshole and forced them to have sex with him. But that gratified his lust, not hers. What was she getting out of the deal (besides the adrenochrome, of course :roll: )? If all she got was that she stayed as his girlfriend, that's gotta be one of the sickest relationships based on dependency that I ever heard of.

In fact, that's really a demeaning relationship more than anything positive. She had to look in the mirror and say, "You're his procurer, lady, nothing else. He'd rather have one of those than ten of me." That's not good for your self-esteem.

'Course, I'm probably missing some facts. Facts are nice, if I knew any. :think:
I'd like to know if the victims had a way out and chose to not take it or if they felt they were being held against their will. Where did the victims come from? Where were their parents? As Foggy says, facts are nice.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#42

Post by RVInit »

People who prey on underage girls/boys know exactly what to look for. They prey on girls from dysfunctional families, the kind of families where the child is unlikely to have healthy support from parents. These people know what they are doing. Maxwell took part in what is known as grooming. Grooming prepares the victim, instilling a sense that the perpetrators are friends or lonesome or whatever is likely to make it difficult for the victim to understand they have been victimized or make the victim feel sorry for the perpetrator. The people who do this kind of thing know exactly what they are doing and are masterful at choosing victims unlikely to report the crime. She belongs in prison for the rest of her life.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#43

Post by Slim Cognito »

:stamp:
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#44

Post by LM K »

zekeb wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:56 pm
Foggy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm I sorta see her as far more mundane, which is not to diminish the seriousness of what she did. But I can't see her as some evil plotting crime queen. I think she was in love with the wrong asshole, and he kept manipulating her for many years.

Maybe I don't know all the facts, but I'm under the impression that she mostly obtained underage girls for the asshole and forced them to have sex with him. But that gratified his lust, not hers. What was she getting out of the deal (besides the adrenochrome, of course :roll: )? If all she got was that she stayed as his girlfriend, that's gotta be one of the sickest relationships based on dependency that I ever heard of.

In fact, that's really a demeaning relationship more than anything positive. She had to look in the mirror and say, "You're his procurer, lady, nothing else. He'd rather have one of those than ten of me." That's not good for your self-esteem.

'Course, I'm probably missing some facts. Facts are nice, if I knew any. :think:
I'd like to know if the victims had a way out and chose to not take it or if they felt they were being held against their will. Where did the victims come from? Where were their parents? As Foggy says, facts are nice.
WTF. That's sex traffick victim blaming 101.

It 2021. We don't slut shame trafficked victims anymore.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#45

Post by LM K »

Foggy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm I sorta see her as far more mundane, which is not to diminish the seriousness of what she did. But I can't see her as some evil plotting crime queen. I think she was in love with the wrong asshole, and he kept manipulating her for many years.

Maybe I don't know all the facts, but I'm under the impression that she mostly obtained underage girls for the asshole and forced them to have sex with him. But that gratified his lust, not hers. What was she getting out of the deal (besides the adrenochrome, of course :roll: )? If all she got was that she stayed as his girlfriend, that's gotta be one of the sickest relationships based on dependency that I ever heard of.

In fact, that's really a demeaning relationship more than anything positive. She had to look in the mirror and say, "You're his procurer, lady, nothing else. He'd rather have one of those than ten of me." That's not good for your self-esteem.

'Course, I'm probably missing some facts. Facts are nice, if I knew any. :think:
Oh ffs. The sexism just drips from this comment.

Women can be sexual predators. Couples can hunt prey together. Maxwell was an excellent hunter.

Maxwell isn't just a procurer. But let's say she is. Isn't that bad enough?

Maxwell didn't only procure children for Epstein. She groomed them. She walked them to his bedroom door. Often she was in the room with Epstein as he sexually assaulted children. And she sexually assaulted some of Epstein's victims with Epstein.

Maxwell is a sexual predator.

Maxwell trafficked women because she could.

Maxwell had money, position, and power. She's intelligent and highly capable. She wasn't a victim of Epstein's. Her intimate relationship with Epstein lasted only 3 years. She had a long friendship with him. She worked for him. She didn't do bad things because she loved a bad man.

Maxwell made a conscious choice, regularly, for years, to sexually traffick children. And to sexually assault children.

Maxwell is every bit as evil as Epstein.

I put some screenshots of Maxwell's indictment below.
► Show Spoiler
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#46

Post by Suranis »

Thanks Lani. Most people don't realize that positive discrimination is still discrimination. And the reluctance to ascribe any evil to women and all evil to men if there is one within 100 miles of the women amounts to Misandry.

For a good example of a woman being an abuser, check out this pretty disturbing documentary on a "doctor" that killed people. People would be inclined these days to blame her husband.

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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#47

Post by Foggy »

LM K wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:19 am Maxwell didn't only procure children for Epstein. She groomed them. She walked them to his bedroom door. Often she was in the room with Epstein as he sexually assaulted children. And she sexually assaulted some of Epstein's victims with Epstein.
OK, I didn't know any of that. That's what I meant by saying I needed more facts. I haven't really made this case the focus of my life. I don't like to think, or write, about true pedophiles. It's all fun and games when it's Hillary and Comet Pizza and ludicrous right-wing fantasy, but then you run across a real pedophile, and that makes me uncomfortable, so I try to stay on top of the stories without soaking in the details. Yes, that changes the story entirely, and shows that she isn't just, as I said, a mundane and fully controlled collaborator.

So thanks for the facts.

Accusing me of blaming the victims, however, is outright ridiculous. Read what I wrote and tell me what I said about the victims who were "obtained ... for the asshole and forced ... to have sex with him". Wow, I really blamed those underage girls, huh? :nope:
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#48

Post by Mr brolin »

For accuracy, she has been ACCUSED of these vile crimes.

The indictment is simply that, a series of layered accusations that have not as yet been tried or adjudicated.

If she is tried and found guilty, grand and I trust she spends every single solitary moment in prison she deserves.

However lets be aware that the compounding, layering and in some case outright stretching the lines of incredulity of charges the prosecution have built have a not insignificant smell of

"That bastard got away with it by dying in custody...We need to make someone pay for some of his crimes"

Lets be honest, if that fecker was still alive the focus would be on him and her pre-trial arrangements would, in all probability, probably been hard far less severe than appear to have been applied.

It is much the same with all the sound and fury around Prince Andrew.

Is he an entitled, stupid, pompous feckwit with the morals of a drunken stoat and a guiding principle of "But I'm speshul".....I would say yes.
Was he aware of any illegal acts, procuring, abusing or trafficing.....I rather doubt it
Did he have (apparently) consensual sex with Virginia Roberts.....Wouldn't be surprised
Was the act between the crertinous spunk mullet and her illegal in the United KIngdom in 2001.....Nope
Was the act between said arrogant stain and her illegal in NY in 2001......Nope
Has he lied about the act, assuming it did actually occur.......Maybe, I don't know
Will he every be charged with anything....No, there is no "there" there

So.....Am I apologizing, supporting, blame shifting, victim blaming etc for Maxwell.......No
Do I want the victims of these heinous acts have their day in court......Hell yes
Do I think she did some, many or more of the things she has been accused of.....Yep, quite possibly, I don't know, wouldn't be surprised
Do I hope the full extent of legal penalty be applied against her if convicted.....Yep
Do I or anyone else here actually KNOW what did occur other than through the published indictments and the fervid outpouring of press sensationalism... No

The second the court has completed its duty, rendered a verdict and sentenced within the rule of law then we will "know" her guilt. Until then we have supposition and the press.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#49

Post by RTH10260 »

LM K wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:19 am :snippity:

Maxwell didn't only procure children for Epstein. She groomed them. She walked them to his bedroom door. Often she was in the room with Epstein as he sexually assaulted children. And she sexually assaulted some of Epstein's victims with Epstein.

Maxwell is a sexual predator.

Maxwell trafficked women because she could.
:snippity:
Here I have to voice my objection. She did not procure "children".

As some of them were from Europe, the age of consent is mostly 16, no questions asked as of that age, for younger there will generally be the Romeo-and-Juliet clause with the older partner age limit around 20, but that's not the issue here. The ladies that Maxwell picked up would be considered young adults. Also too in Europe prostutution is considered generally a legal activity. From a Europeans point of view the issue would boil down to trafficking, eg the person would have been to have peruaded to serve under false pretense. Also, did the vicitim have the opportunity to leave, eg go and report to a next police station, or flee (as was not the case on Epsteins Carribean island).

Eg the case of the lady that accuses Prince Andrew might not float (from a European pov), she was photographed on the steps of Epsteins mansion, eg she would have had free will to leave Epstein.
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Re: Ghislaine Maxwell trial

#50

Post by Maybenaut »

Mr brolin wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:30 am For accuracy, she has been ACCUSED of these vile crimes.

The indictment is simply that, a series of layered accusations that have not as yet been tried or adjudicated.

If she is tried and found guilty, grand and I trust she spends every single solitary moment in prison she deserves.

However lets be aware that the compounding, layering and in some case outright stretching the lines of incredulity of charges the prosecution have built have a not insignificant smell of

"That bastard got away with it by dying in custody...We need to make someone pay for some of his crimes"

Lets be honest, if that fecker was still alive the focus would be on him and her pre-trial arrangements would, in all probability, probably been hard far less severe than appear to have been applied.

It is much the same with all the sound and fury around Prince Andrew.

Is he an entitled, stupid, pompous feckwit with the morals of a drunken stoat and a guiding principle of "But I'm speshul".....I would say yes.
Was he aware of any illegal acts, procuring, abusing or trafficing.....I rather doubt it
Did he have (apparently) consensual sex with Virginia Roberts.....Wouldn't be surprised
Was the act between the crertinous spunk mullet and her illegal in the United KIngdom in 2001.....Nope
Was the act between said arrogant stain and her illegal in NY in 2001......Nope
Has he lied about the act, assuming it did actually occur.......Maybe, I don't know
Will he every be charged with anything....No, there is no "there" there

So.....Am I apologizing, supporting, blame shifting, victim blaming etc for Maxwell.......No
Do I want the victims of these heinous acts have their day in court......Hell yes
Do I think she did some, many or more of the things she has been accused of.....Yep, quite possibly, I don't know, wouldn't be surprised
Do I hope the full extent of legal penalty be applied against her if convicted.....Yep
Do I or anyone else here actually KNOW what did occur other than through the published indictments and the fervid outpouring of press sensationalism... No

The second the court has completed its duty, rendered a verdict and sentenced within the rule of law then we will "know" her guilt. Until then we have supposition and the press.
I’ve made this point in other threads. People get way too invested in the result. But in our system the result isn’t preordained. I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t have an opinion on whether she’s guilty or not, but if the jury disagrees with you, it doesn’t mean that there’s no justice, or whatever.
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