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COVID-19 and the States

We have ALL your misinformation, plus some TRUE FACTS and SCIENCE.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#326

Post by scirreeve »

Les owns a few small news outlets. He is the editor of the one in Vale Oregon. Also owns 3 ( I think) in the Salem area. They do great work.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#327

Post by Volkonski »

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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#328

Post by AndyinPA »

I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#329

Post by Frater I*I »

AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
I'd take bets that Pennsyltucky probably has a far lower percentage...hell if they could they'd try and make it a negative number....


I'll see myself out...
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#330

Post by raison de arizona »

AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
Go Arizona! You want to know who has a lower vax rate for the total population than Florida (58.5%)? Arizona! That's who!

You want to know who has a lower vax rate than Texas (52.2%)? Right again! Arizona! That's who!

Anyway. 52.0%. Blech. Half infectious.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#331

Post by Frater I*I »

raison de arizona wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:48 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
Go Arizona! You want to know who has a lower vax rate for the total population than Florida (58.5%)? Arizona! That's who!

You want to know who has a lower vax rate than Texas (52.2%)? Right again! Arizona! That's who!

Anyway. 52.0%. Blech. Half infectious.
Ohhh yeah...don't go waving that big foam "Number One" finger yet, good ole' GA is running 46.7%....
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He's got the answers to ease my curiosity, He dreamed a god up and called it Christianity"

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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#332

Post by AndyinPA »

Frater I*I wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:48 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
I'd take bets that Pennsyltucky probably has a far lower percentage...hell if they could they'd try and make it a negative number....


I'll see myself out...
Not takin' that bet.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#333

Post by pipistrelle »

AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 pm
Frater I*I wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:48 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm I heard today that Pennsylvania is 70 percent with two jabs. I don't know what the number is for just one jab, but it's got to be a good bit higher. Not bad.
I'd take bets that Pennsyltucky probably has a far lower percentage...hell if they could they'd try and make it a negative number....


I'll see myself out...
Not takin' that bet.
Some Trumpies I know in PA all got shots as soon as they could. They may be gullible but aren’t stupid.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#334

Post by AndyinPA »

pipistrelle wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:14 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 pm
Frater I*I wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:48 pm

I'd take bets that Pennsyltucky probably has a far lower percentage...hell if they could they'd try and make it a negative number....


I'll see myself out...
Not takin' that bet.
Some Trumpies I know in PA all got shots as soon as they could. They may be gullible but aren’t stupid.
I know more than a few trumpies here who got it, too, but I don't live in the Tucky part of the state.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#335

Post by scirreeve »

These vax numbers don't mean anything without posting the definition. Some States post the % of those vaxxed 18+, others 12+, and others as % of total population. Hard to compare the numbers without knowing the definition. Rant over.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#336

Post by AndyinPA »

scirreeve wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:27 am These vax numbers don't mean anything without posting the definition. Some States post the % of those vaxxed 18+, others 12+, and others as % of total population. Hard to compare the numbers without knowing the definition. Rant over.
I only caught the tail end of it yesterday. I heard it again today. It's 70 percent of adults in the state. I think that's the way PA has always talked about it.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#337

Post by pipistrelle »

AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:15 am
pipistrelle wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:14 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 pm

Not takin' that bet.
Some Trumpies I know in PA all got shots as soon as they could. They may be gullible but aren’t stupid.
I know more than a few trumpies here who got it, too, but I don't live in the Tucky part of the state.
Where’s ‘tucky? I have a feeling that’s where they are.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#338

Post by AndyinPA »

pipistrelle wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:50 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:15 am
pipistrelle wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:14 pm
Some Trumpies I know in PA all got shots as soon as they could. They may be gullible but aren’t stupid.
I know more than a few trumpies here who got it, too, but I don't live in the Tucky part of the state.
Where’s ‘tucky? I have a feeling that’s where they are.
Tucky is in the red part of the state; i.e., not Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Scranton, Erie, maybe Harrisburg. You know, like just about every other state, more of an urban/rural divide. Lots of territory, not so many people, although that's not necessarily true everywhere. The former guy seems intent on driving the suburban group to the Dems.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#339

Post by pipistrelle »

AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:55 pm
pipistrelle wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:50 pm
AndyinPA wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:15 am

I know more than a few trumpies here who got it, too, but I don't live in the Tucky part of the state.
Where’s ‘tucky? I have a feeling that’s where they are.
Tucky is in the red part of the state; i.e., not Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Scranton, Erie, maybe Harrisburg. You know, like just about every other state, more of an urban/rural divide. Lots of territory, not so many people, although that's not necessarily true everywhere. The former guy seems intent on driving the suburban group to the Dems.
Yep, these are older Trump-worshipping Pennsyltuckians who nonetheless don’t want to die from COVID.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#340

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#341

Post by bill_g »

On NPR yesterday afternoon: TX and FL have passed, or will pass, laws making it illegal for local govts and employers to mandate employee vax, and TX added the right for employees to sue their employers if terminated. One TX county has already been assessed fines ranging in the millions for mandating county employees be vax'd.

Sorry. No citation for either.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#342

Post by Uninformed »

“Florida fines key county $3.5 million for mandating vaccines”:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/f ... g-vaccines
If you can't lie to yourself, who can you lie to?
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#343

Post by RVInit »

LM K wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:56 pm
neonzx wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:52 am What is wrong with these health care professionals? They want to expose those they are entrusted to care for? Find another line of work.
This has been a fascinating issue for me.

When the vax was released for healthcare workers, my sister was a bit hesitant to be vaccinated. She's a huge fan of vaccines. We are a vaxed family.

My sister has worked covid since the beginning. But the speed at which the vax was developed was of concern to her.

The hesitancy to try new meds is common amongst healthcare workers. What happens in the lab doesn't always match what happens when a drug enters the real world. Docs and nurses see what happens when someone reacts badly to a drug.

Lori returned to work from FMLA just before Christmas. Her first shift scared her. She told us "this isn't the covid we had in the spring". She got her first jab the next day.

I found her concerns valid. I shared the same concern. I decided to get vaxed asap because, as a scientist, trust science. And I wanted my life back.

I understand vaccine hesitancy amongst healthcare professionals. But MANY antivaxxers hide as vaccine hesitant. Vax mandates have shown us whom is hesitant and whom is antivax.

Houston Methodist Hospital was the first hospital to mandate vaccines for all healthcare workers. A group of 117 nurses sued the hospital to stop vax mandate and keep their job.

The lead plaintiff claimed to be vax hesitant. She's not. When asked during an interview when she would be comfortable getting the covid vax, her answer was something like 10 years in the future. After all, the vax is really new. AND she was fighting for her freedumbs.

The minute a covid vax "hesitant" adds a second excuse for why they're not getting vaxed, it's obvious that they're not hesitant. They're antivax.
Am I wrong in the impression that because we already had coronaviruses in the past and also SARS that the vaccine development for Covid-19 wasn't really entirely from scratch? That much of the study and information that is required to develop a vaccine was already known, at least somewhat and that is why it didn't take the normal 10 years? I can't remember where I got that information from, but honestly, I'm operating on zero sleep right now and may be hallucinating.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#344

Post by raison de arizona »

RVInit wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:34 pm Am I wrong in the impression that because we already had coronaviruses in the past and also SARS that the vaccine development for Covid-19 wasn't really entirely from scratch? That much of the study and information that is required to develop a vaccine was already known, at least somewhat and that is why it didn't take the normal 10 years? I can't remember where I got that information from, but honestly, I'm operating on zero sleep right now and may be hallucinating.
mRNA vax was being worked on over a decade ago, my current boss is someone that was working on it then.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#345

Post by filly »

The hesitancy to try new meds is common amongst healthcare workers. What happens in the lab doesn't always match what happens when a drug enters the real world.
Which is why there are clinical trials. So I don't understand this Graf.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

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Post by LM K »

bill_g wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:03 am On NPR yesterday afternoon: TX and FL have passed, or will pass, laws making it illegal for local govts and employers to mandate employee vax, and TX added the right for employees to sue their employers if terminated. One TX county has already been assessed fines ranging in the millions for mandating county employees be vax'd.

Sorry. No citation for either.
Unfortunately employers will face some serious shit because of this. What the states are doing is unconstitutional. SCOTUS has spoken. What is a small doctor's office of 10 staff supposed to do? They must vax their staff or lose all Medicare and Medicaid money, which is a serious blow.

These states are not serving their anti-vax companies well at all with this bullshit. Antivaxxers love these laws until the consequences hit them in other ways, such as losing their job because a business struggling to recover from the pandemic just gives up rather than face fines no matter what they do. The decision is brutal; be fined substantially by the fed gov for not mandating vaccines or get fined substantially by the state and sued by employees for not mandating vaccines?

What about employers whom mandate a "vax or test" policy? How are these states defining a max mandate? Assholes like David Clements won't vax or test. And testing isn't cheap. Can employers pass that cost to employees? Will states give employers money to cover testing?
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#347

Post by Slim Cognito »

Uninformed wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:42 am “Florida fines key county $3.5 million for mandating vaccines”:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/f ... g-vaccines
Now what? Say they decide not to pay? Can they take legal action to get the fines dropped?

I still don't see this bringing suburban housewives and moms back to the GOP fold.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#348

Post by raison de arizona »

Slim Cognito wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:38 pm
Uninformed wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:42 am “Florida fines key county $3.5 million for mandating vaccines”:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/f ... g-vaccines
Now what? Say they decide not to pay? Can they take legal action to get the fines dropped?

I still don't see this bringing suburban housewives and moms back to the GOP fold.
Well I would expect that they can (and will) certainly sue, but I don't think they can decide not to pay. The state will just deduct the fines from the money they send the counties, is my understanding.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#349

Post by LM K »

RVInit wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:34 pm
Am I wrong in the impression that because we already had coronaviruses in the past and also SARS that the vaccine development for Covid-19 wasn't really entirely from scratch? That much of the study and information that is required to develop a vaccine was already known, at least somewhat and that is why it didn't take the normal 10 years? I can't remember where I got that information from, but honestly, I'm operating on zero sleep right now and may be hallucinating.
You are correct. MNRA vaccines have been researched for over 20 years. When SARS-COV-2 evolved, Merck was already on the cusp of a mRNA vaccine.

Most people don't know that cold viruses are coronaviruses. For some reason, SARS, MERS, and SARS-COV-2 are insanely more deadly.

This long, technical, and boring article gives the history of mRNA vaccine development.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines
In late 1987, Robert Malone performed a landmark experiment. He mixed strands of messenger RNA with droplets of fat, to create a kind of molecular stew. Human cells bathed in this genetic gumbo absorbed the mRNA, and began producing proteins from it1.

Realizing that this discovery might have far-reaching potential in medicine, Malone, a graduate student at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, later jotted down some notes, which he signed and dated. If cells could create proteins from mRNA delivered into them, he wrote on 11 January 1988, it might be possible to “treat RNA as a drug”. Another member of the Salk lab signed the notes, too, for posterity. Later that year, Malone’s experiments showed that frog embryos absorbed such mRNA2. It was the first time anyone had used fatty droplets to ease mRNA’s passage into a living organism.

Those experiments were a stepping stone towards two of the most important and profitable vaccines in history: the mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines given to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Global sales of these are expected to top US$50 billion in 2021 alone.
:snippity:

By the late 2000s, several big pharmaceutical companies were entering the mRNA field. In 2008, for example, both Novartis and Shire established mRNA research units — the former (led by Geall) focused on vaccines, the latter (led by Heartlein) on therapeutics. BioNTech launched that year, and other start-ups soon entered the fray, bolstered by a 2012 decision by the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency to start funding industry researchers to study RNA vaccines and drugs. Moderna was one of the companies that built on this work and, by 2015, it had raised more than $1 billion on the promise of harnessing mRNA to induce cells in the body to make their own medicines — thereby fixing diseases caused by missing or defective proteins. When that plan faltered, Moderna, led by chief executive Stéphane Bancel, chose to prioritize a less ambitious target: making vaccines.
:snippity:

That initially disappointed many investors and onlookers, because a vaccine platform seemed to be less transformative and lucrative. By the beginning of 2020, Moderna had advanced nine mRNA vaccine candidates for infectious diseases into people for testing. None was a slam-dunk success. Just one had progressed to a larger-phase trial.

But when COVID-19 struck, Moderna was quick off the mark, creating a prototype vaccine within days of the virus’s genome sequence becoming available online. The company then collaborated with the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) to conduct mouse studies and launch human trials, all within less than ten weeks.


BioNTech, too, took an all-hands-on-deck approach. In March 2020, it partnered with New York-based drug company Pfizer, and clinical trials then moved at a record pace, going from first-in-human to emergency approval in less than eight months.
:snippity:
In response to the pandemic, many countries qave Merck, Moderna, Pfizer, Astra-Zenica, Johnson and Johnson, and other companies enormous amounts of money to develop a SARS-COV-2 vaccine. That money allowed companies to ramp up their research facilities and staff. Most vaccine researchers dedicated themselves completely to developing a SARS-COV-2 vaccine. Because researchers we're on the cusp of a mNRA vaccine already, the money and talent necessary for rapid vaccine development was in place. And human subjects felt compelled to help the world. Over 64,000 human subjects agreed participate in research studies for new vaccines.

I hope those 64,000 subjects are remembered in the history books. Without quickly recruited human subjects, the death and disability rates for SARS-COV-2 would be much, much worse than they are now.

There are 3 siRNA meds on the market. MRNA vaccines and siRNA meds are based on RNA research.

The first drug was approved in 2018.
While only 3 small interfering RNA (siRNA)-based therapies have been approved (patisiran, givosiran, and lumasiran), there are 7 other candidates in phase 3 trials. A review published in Biochemical Pharmacology provided an overview of siRNA therapeutics as they are poised to become a “standard modality of pharmacotherapy.”

RNA interference is a natural mechanism by which eukaryotic cells control gene activity. siRNAs cause targeted gene suppression and allow therapies to target and silence the messenger RNA products of genes, the authors noted.

Creating siRNA-based drugs has been a 20-year process, but in 2018, the FDA approved patisiran, the first siRNA, to treat hereditary transthyretin amyloidosis (hATTR); in 2019, givosiran was approved to treat acute hepatic porphyria; and in 2020, lumasiran was approved to treat primary hyperoxaluria type 1.

:snippity:
So, while RNA medications and vaccines are new, the technology has been researched for over 20 years.
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Re: COVID-19 and the States

#350

Post by p0rtia »

raison de arizona wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:41 pm
Slim Cognito wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:38 pm
Uninformed wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:42 am “Florida fines key county $3.5 million for mandating vaccines”:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/f ... g-vaccines
Now what? Say they decide not to pay? Can they take legal action to get the fines dropped?

I still don't see this bringing suburban housewives and moms back to the GOP fold.
Well I would expect that they can (and will) certainly sue, but I don't think they can decide not to pay. The state will just deduct the fines from the money they send the counties, is my understanding.
Did not Biden say they would compensate for any state anti-mandate impositions? I recall him discussing making up withheld salaries, but I don't think I'm going to far to assume that this would include fines.
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