Gun Control

[John Thomas8]

Sigh.

The gun isn't evil.

The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is.

[Dave from down under]

Sigh.

The gun isn't evil.

The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is.

The love of the power that guns give is evil..
and yes the use that they are too often put to is evil..
and yes,
The lack of affordable and effective mental health care is...
as well.

[Dave from down under]

For those who haven’t seen it this is Jim Wright’s ideas for initial gun control legislation:
http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang ... anity.html

Unfortunately the voices of sanity will not sway the cult of death.

[John Thomas8]

The love of the power that guns give is evil..

Um, wut? I enjoy shooting, a lot. Events like 2-gun action matches are challenging, enjoyable and healthy. Time at the range is satisfying. Implying that I or the vast number of gun owners use "love of the power that guns give" is objectionable at best.

[Dave from down under]

The love of the power that guns give is evil..

Um, wut? I enjoy shooting, a lot. Events like 2-gun action matches are challenging, enjoyable and healthy. Time at the range is satisfying. Implying that I or the vast number of gun owners use "love of the power that guns give" is objectionable at best.

Good pick up..

The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..

[Suranis]

What exactly does a background check do given how badly it has been implemented.

I read a while back that the Background checks system has been deliberately sabotaged by republicans. Basically the FBI are not allowed to store records of background checks, meaning that if someone applies they have to do the check from the ground up all over again. Other things that basically slow the check down to uselessness, while also making it legal for people to get their gun within a day of the beginning of their background check.

[John Thomas8]

Good pick up..

The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..

Still doesn't apply to the vast number of gun owners.

You don't get to call me evil because I own an AR-type rifle.

[Dave from down under]

Good pick up..

The love of the power that guns give over others is evil..

Still doesn't apply to the vast number of gun owners.

You don't get to call me evil because I own an AR-type rifle.

If you love that power over others...

I do get to call you evil..

Just as you get to call people who fear guns in the hands of the criminal/insane/drunk scared..

[Dave from down under]

If you don’t love that power over others.
Then I’m not calling you evil

Only you know if that applies to you.

[Suranis]

Ok enough.

Yes people get a feeling of a surge of power when they hold a gun.

Good gun owners and people in the army/etc train themselves to suppress that feeling, to think clearly. And go with simple enjoyment

Others do not and become addicted.

One is fine. The addicts are dangerous.

You do not get to blame the first because others let the adrenaline surge get away from them.

[John Thomas8]

If you love that power over others...

I do get to call you evil..

Just as you get to call people who fear guns in the hands of the criminal/insane/drunk scared..

That's an assumption that doesn't have any factual basis. You're not arguing from an honest position.

[roadscholar]

THIS is the deal: how to prevent the mass killers from accessing guns, before they kill.

Anything else is not.

A huge majority of these guys had red flags about their mental stability ahead of the incident. Something has to be done about them, not the guns. Tim McVeigh didn’t use a gun. But several people close to him were convinced he would “go off” one day.

There is a class of people who aren’t allowed to buy guns now. Felons. Drug addicts. The criminally insane. And background checks are the only thing that MIGHT stop them from getting guns, and expanding that profile to stop the perpetrators of deranged mass killings is fine with me.

Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.

[neonzx]

I'm not sure what an AR-15 type rifle needs to be in the hands of civilians. Why not just a decent Glock or similar handgun for their personal and home protection if they are in fear?

I live in an area that has crime. I have the means/money to move to a better "safer" area of the county, but I stay because I try to make a difference. -- and I don't carry a gun on me.

Those with big guns like an AR-15 are just scared and think it makes them more safe or powerful. Nope.

Look at the stats between the USA and other western nations and you see how extremely violent we are in comparison given all our guns. I guess, we are indeed "exceptional", but in the worst way.

[John Thomas8]

Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.

What? It's obscene to make such a blatantly incorrect statement. ATF is not a "minor inconvenience", it's an actual manufacturer of turning honest people into criminals. Gun sales regulated by ATF cost millions of dollars and prevent honest people from behaving honestly.

Fix the mental health system, don't criminalize constitutionally protected behaviour.

[John Thomas8]

Those with big guns like an AR-15 are just scared and think it makes them more safe or powerful. Nope.

Really? Those are the only reasons to own an AR-15? You're certain? Because you'd be wrong.

[Dave from down under]

You do not get to blame the first because others let the adrenaline surge get away from them.

Which is why I acknowledged that and amended my view on what I consider is evil.

Ie the love of power over others

Just as I believe sadism is evil.

Just as I believe slavery is evil.

Etc

[Suranis]

I know they hunt Wild Boar with assault weapons in eastern Europe - but they limit the Magazine to 3 rounds.

[somerset]

Those with big guns like an AR-15 are just scared and think it makes them more safe or powerful. Nope.

Really? Those are the only reasons to own an AR-15? You're certain? Because you'd be wrong.

Why do you own an AR-15?

[Gregg]

All I'm gonna say.

[roadscholar]

I don’t think demonstrable need is the issue. My own brother owns guns nobody really “needs.” He enjoys owning and firing them. He is an aerospace engineer and military special arms designer. An AR-15 in his hands would never be used against a living being of any sort.

The argument over them is a lot like the one about Pit Bulls. Both can be used by evil people with vicious intent, but neither are inherently dangerous. Focus on the people... if a guy has owned Pit Bulls he turned aggressive, hosted dog fights, thrown mild-mannered bait dogs to the killers, well maybe he should be prohibited from owning another Pit Bull.

Same goes for assault weapons. Prevent future tragedy. That’s the deal.

There are already stringent requirements for owning full-auto weapons. Anyone ready to argue that there shouldn’t be?

[John Thomas8]

You do not get to blame the first because others let the adrenaline surge get away from them.

Which is why I acknowledged that and amended my view on what I consider is evil.

Ie the love of power over others

Just as I believe sadism is evil.

Just as I believe slavery is evil.

Etc

Regardless, gun owners aren't evil because they own guns.

People that use guns to shoot other people are evil. This may or may not include people in wars, that being a completely other topic.

There's an intense and blatant distinction.

Guns aren't evil.

[John Thomas8]

Anyone ready to argue that there shouldn’t be?

Yep, but it won't happen here. There's too many "guns are evil" folks here to make a sane conversation possible. I think the 1934 ban is quite unconstitutional. The subsequent laws are even worse.

[Gregg]

[Dave from down under]

Guns aren't evil.

Neither is bathtub badly cut meth inherently evil..

Because it is just a chemical compound

Evil is the human who makes/sells it know what it will do to others.

So guns aren’t evil - they are tools with many legitimate uses.

So why are they used so much for such evil?

[Patagoniagirl]

Background checks stop thousands of improper gun sales every year. A bit of minor inconvenience to sane gun owners is trivial compared to the horrors we see now.

What? It's obscene to make such a blatantly incorrect statement. ATF is not a "minor inconvenience", it's an actual manufacturer of turning honest people into criminals. Gun sales regulated by ATF cost millions of dollars and prevent honest people from behaving honestly.

Fix the mental health system, don't criminalize constitutionally protected behaviour.

1.How does ATF turn honest people into criminals?
2. People with mental illnesses are not statistically more likely to commit crimes.
3. Limiting types of weapons has been the subject of constitutional law for decades as guns have become more deadly.