Gun Control

[neeneko]

Anyone see a pattern?

► Show Spoiler

This is a nice stark example of the part of the pattern I keep worrying about but doesn't get as much attention. We have a meme/script problem.. and as simple as an 'assault weapon ban' sounds, there is really nothing special about civilian assault weapons. Ban ARs and things that 'look like' ARs, and some clever marketer or culture warrior will create a new cultural connection.

Though of course extending a ban or some other new requirement to semi-automatics (which would cover a much wider range) would really eat into the alternatives. Breaking the meme would be a lot harder..

[sugar magnolia]

Anyone see a pattern?

► Show Spoiler

This is a nice stark example of the part of the pattern I keep worrying about but doesn't get as much attention. We have a meme/script problem.. and as simple as an 'assault weapon ban' sounds, there is really nothing special about civilian assault weapons. Ban ARs and things that 'look like' ARs, and some clever marketer or culture warrior will create a new cultural connection.

Though of course extending a ban or some other new requirement to semi-automatics (which would cover a much wider range) would really eat into the alternatives. Breaking the meme would be a lot harder..

Yes, there's nothing to be done so let's just do nothing.
That's worked so well up to this point.

[neeneko]

Yes, there's nothing to be done so let's just do nothing.
That's worked so well up to this point.

Well, as the second paragraph touches on, a ban based off functional elements like semi-automatic would likely have an impact. One of the huge flaws in the earlier assault weapon ban is it pretty much came down to 'things people saw in movies' as opposed to functional elements, which helped create the cultural connection to the AR in the first place. That ban is one of the things that got us into this mess, and creating another like it will likely produce similar results. ARs and assault weapons are more cultural symbols than actual concrete weapon types, and while this might sound acedemic, it is vitally important to take into account when trying to draft new rules.

When doing something, it is important to look at the effects that something will have, rather than doing something for the sake of doing something and consequences are tomorrow's problem. I am all for doing something, but it has to be something that addresses a problem other than 'makes angry voters happy'. Personally, I suspect legislation, even a strict 'ban all new sales, remove current circulation' will not, by itself, be enough. We gotta figure out how to untangle that meme.

[raison de arizona]

June 2nd, morning:

How an Uvalde Police Chief Spends His Sundays

In our new daily feature, "The Morning Mass," David Leonhardt breaks down the day's mass shootings, explains why the number of shootings doesn't actually matter, and details why the mass shooting epidemic is over.

June 3rd, mourning:

[raison de arizona]

Everyday should be gun violence awareness day.

Today, I #WearOrange on Gun Violence Awareness Day in honor of Hadiya Pendleton and every victim of gun violence. This crisis has touched far too many Americans. We cannot let another year pass without action.

I will never stop fighting for a future free from gun violence.

Remember when something could pass in the Senate with less than 60 votes? That used to happen, once upon a time.
https://twitter.com/GiffordsCourage/sta ... 8284545044

BREAKING: @HouseJudiciary just passed the Protect Our Kids Act.

This package of bills will:
Raise the age to 21 to buy an assault rifle
Stop gun trafficking
Require safe storage
Ban ghost guns
Ban bumpstocks
Regulate LCMs

[Gregg]

Anyone see a pattern?

► Show Spoiler

This is a nice stark example of the part of the pattern I keep worrying about but doesn't get as much attention. We have a meme/script problem.. and as simple as an 'assault weapon ban' sounds, there is really nothing special about civilian assault weapons. Ban ARs and things that 'look like' ARs, and some clever marketer or culture warrior will create a new cultural connection.

Though of course extending a ban or some other new requirement to semi-automatics (which would cover a much wider range) would really eat into the alternatives. Breaking the meme would be a lot harder..

Ban semi automatic weapons with a multi round magazine. They have demonstrated that anything less than extreme they cannot be trusted to not exploit the intent. Phuck it, for my vote I'd ban high capacity water pistols and let them work they way be from there because they will.

No matter what might get passed, they'll start chipping away around the edges and eventually get back to hand held anti-tank CIWS cannon.

But seriously. No AR style weapons, no manufacture or sale of parts or components for rifled barrel firearms with Federal Gun Producer License, mandatory insurance and liability for misuse for the entire chain of ownership from manufacturer to end user. If you ever owned a gun that 10 years later was used in a crime, you win, you have civil liability for that crime. Guess selling at the swap meet in the parking lot to avoid that background check wasn't such a good idea, eh, Sparky?

The ban on parts is a big deal, also. There are any number of places that sell the parts you can buy to make the off the shelf AR-15 a much more lethal weapon, including things that (if misused or altered "off label") make them much more lethal than the M16 and M4 rifles the armed forces use. You can buy "80%" kits that are full on machine guns but some obscure law makes it legal to sell up to 80% of the parts for a gun without it being the gun. You buy the 80% kit and make the other 20% yourself I guess from parts found in any kitchen pantry. The companies that sell those kits have no regulation at all and the kits have no serial numbers or other safeguards that an actual gun must have.

Anyway, though, if Mitch McConnell was kept up all night Christmas Eve by Marley's ghost and suddenly decided to let then ban all guns, repeal the second amendment and go full Australia, it would be 100 years before the problem was fixed because there are literally more guns than people in America, quite a few of the most lethal hidden away in direct anticipation of the day FDR Truman Kennedy McGovern Carter Mondale Clinton Obama Biden was gonna come and take them away

[raison de arizona]

[Gregg]

Yes, there's nothing to be done so let's just do nothing.
That's worked so well up to this point.

Well, as the second paragraph touches on, a ban based off functional elements like semi-automatic would likely have an impact. One of the huge flaws in the earlier assault weapon ban is it pretty much came down to 'things people saw in movies' as opposed to functional elements, which helped create the cultural connection to the AR in the first place. That ban is one of the things that got us into this mess, and creating another like it will likely produce similar results. ARs and assault weapons are more cultural symbols than actual concrete weapon types, and while this might sound acedemic, it is vitally important to take into account when trying to draft new rules.

When doing something, it is important to look at the effects that something will have, rather than doing something for the sake of doing something and consequences are tomorrow's problem. I am all for doing something, but it has to be something that addresses a problem other than 'makes angry voters happy'. Personally, I suspect legislation, even a strict 'ban all new sales, remove current circulation' will not, by itself, be enough. We gotta figure out how to untangle that meme.

I disagree. The assault weapons ban was working and it made a difference, the problem with it was it had a sunset provision. Yes, the difference between a so called assault weapon and a garden variety semi auto rifle was in 1994 pretty much cosmetic, but once they made them legal again in 2004, it became a macho contest and around the basic AR-15 frame the gun industry built a range of accessories and upgrades and variants that make custom car parts companies looking on in admiration. So yes, there was a bounce back, and that has created the death cult of the "one from the movies" but it should have been made permanent, that to me was the flaw.

[neeneko]

I disagree. The assault weapons ban was working and it made a difference, the problem with it was it had a sunset provision. Yes, the difference between a so called assault weapon and a garden variety semi auto rifle was in 1994 pretty much cosmetic, but once they made them legal again in 2004, it became a macho contest and around the basic AR-15 frame the gun industry built a range of accessories and upgrades and variants that make custom car parts companies looking on in admiration. So yes, there was a bounce back, and that has created the death cult of the "one from the movies" but it should have been made permanent, that to me was the flaw.

I agree it had an impact, that is pretty easy to just look at statistics, but it also had a long term effect which, as you note in the macho contest element, reverberated from it. Unfortunately, as we are starting to see in AU, permanent is pretty hard to maintain. This is esp true in the US where we can flip radically over pretty short periods. So 'what happens when this gets chipped away' or 'what happens when this gets repealed' are important questions to ask, and figuring out how to counter that bounce back is very important otherwise you simply end up with a period of peace then things get worse than where you started.

[neeneko]

it would be 100 years before the problem was fixed because there are literally more guns than people in America, quite a few of the most lethal hidden away in direct anticipation of the day FDR Truman Kennedy McGovern Carter Mondale Clinton Obama Biden was gonna come and take them away

Oddly enough, I am not all that worried about the guns already in circulation. For the most part, the high profile shooters are not master criminals that know how to operate in private networks and black markets. Given how much of an impact even 3 day waiting periods have had on shootings, I suspect that the effort would be a little too much for most people who are simply angry and lashing out with whatever they can buy that day. Shotguns are still more than enough for home/business defense, so I am not even worried about 'criminals that already have them!'.

Though for me, I am actually not even all that concerned about assault weapons. It is handguns I would REALLY love to see with additional regulation or outright banning. They are really the gun that you should have to demonstrate a reason for owning and go through training, they are the class of gun most deaths are associated with, they are the ones that tend to show up in petty crime and DV cases. I actually get a bit frustrated that there is so much attention on these (admittly increasingly common) high profile but rare events and gun laws that would help the far more common ones just are not media friendly.

[Slim Cognito]

also

[raison de arizona]

Allows local school districts to make their own decisions

Mark my fucking words, as soon as a school board decides NOT to give teachers crew served anti-aircraft artillery, the Republicans will go back and change the law so local school districts aren't allowed to say no.

FFS there is a bill in the Ohio lege RIGHZT DAMN NOW that lessons the penalty for unlawful concealed carry offenses. (HB 455. Republican Bill. Lessens penalties for unlawfully concealed carry in prohibited places. Three hearings so far.). A bill which won't matter when they just make it legal to carry any gun, any where with no training, permit or brain. The phucktwaddle running for State Senator in Hillsboro refused to say he would keep it illegal for all felons to have guns (which I'm pretty sure is a Federal law but, well, HB 62. To exempt Ohio from Federal gun laws. Because our politicians seem to have forgotten the Civil War and Federal Supremacy and The Constitution and stuff.

They will not quit until every newborn goes home with a car seat and an AR-15 by law, to be provided by the State if you can't afford one.

Off Topic

This isn't gun control, but WTF Ohio? Has everyone gone stark raving mad there?
https://twitter.com/smotus/status/1532742067029282817

I'm never sure what kind of law would actually compel me to move away from a state, but one in which school officials inspect my daughter's genitals if she runs too fast might just do the trick.

Ohio House GOP lawmakers passed a bill Wednesday night that would ban transgender girls and women from participating in high school and college athletics. It comes with a "verification process" of checking the genitals of those "accused" of being trans.

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/ ... nspection/

[raison de arizona]

Maybe if they just think a little harder and pray a bit more, it will bring an end to this national nightmare.

[Volkonski]

[Volkonski]

[Volkonski]

[Gregg]

Allows local school districts to make their own decisions

Mark my fucking words, as soon as a school board decides NOT to give teachers crew served anti-aircraft artillery, the Republicans will go back and change the law so local school districts aren't allowed to say no.

FFS there is a bill in the Ohio lege RIGHZT DAMN NOW that lessons the penalty for unlawful concealed carry offenses. (HB 455. Republican Bill. Lessens penalties for unlawfully concealed carry in prohibited places. Three hearings so far.). A bill which won't matter when they just make it legal to carry any gun, any where with no training, permit or brain. The phucktwaddle running for State Senator in Hillsboro refused to say he would keep it illegal for all felons to have guns (which I'm pretty sure is a Federal law but, well, HB 62. To exempt Ohio from Federal gun laws. Because our politicians seem to have forgotten the Civil War and Federal Supremacy and The Constitution and stuff.

They will not quit until every newborn goes home with a car seat and an AR-15 by law, to be provided by the State if you can't afford one.

Off Topic

This isn't gun control, but WTF Ohio? Has everyone gone stark raving mad there?
https://twitter.com/smotus/status/1532742067029282817

I'm never sure what kind of law would actually compel me to move away from a state, but one in which school officials inspect my daughter's genitals if she runs too fast might just do the trick.

Ohio House GOP lawmakers passed a bill Wednesday night that would ban transgender girls and women from participating in high school and college athletics. It comes with a "verification process" of checking the genitals of those "accused" of being trans.

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/06/ ... nspection/

If they pass it I swear to Dog I am going to go to high school sports games at the schools where they live and challenge their daughters. It will become my new weekend entertainment, "By law you can't let her play until you do the dick check, and I'm gonna need to have that audited after you do". They are starting to piss me off just as I am cutting way back on how much I work which gives me that much time to turn every stupid idea they have back on them.

[RTH10260]

GOP Senator brags gun control ‘not gonna happen’ amid at least 60 separate shooting incidents in just one day

David Badash, The New Civil Rights Movement
June 02, 2022

Wednesday evening Americans learned of an active shooter situation at a Tulsa, Oklahoma hospital campus. Four people and the shooter died. But those who were keyed into social media soon learned there had been another shooting, at a high school in Los Angeles. And then horrifically, a third: at a Walmart in Pittson, Pennsylvania.

An NCRM investigation found at least 24 separate shooting incidents on Wednesday, based on published news reports, but the Gun Violence Archive, which also accesses police reports, documents 60 shootings on June 1.

As all of this was unfolding U.S. Senator John Cornyn tweeted, "Not gonna happen," in response to a far right-wing talk show host's claim that he is "open to making gun laws more restrictive."

Cornyn is the Texas Republican charged by Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to make the GOP case in Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy's push to put together and pass gun control legislation after two mass shootings that got international attention recently.





https://www.rawstory.com/gop-senator-br ... t-one-day/

[Dave from down under]

Ban guns in private hands in public places, for 5 years to start with.

In that 5 years, each person that wants to have a gun would have to register them all, and pass a yearly safety & civics course. If passed they would be licensed and would need insurance.

After 5 years, still no guns in public places, except designated hunting areas - and there only bolt action rifles (fixed magazine of 10 or less) or double barrel shotguns on designated ranges or hunting areas, else securely stored both on and outside of private property.

Plus all of the laws proposed on Stonekettle bang bang sanity web page.

Additional - Remove all protection from being sued of makers/sellers/owners.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

This will get their attention!

Dave from Down Under
Remove all protection from being sued of makers/sellers/owners

Pocketbooks prevail over people's lives.

[Sam the Centipede]

As Dave knows, ain't gonna happen. But, picking up on a tweet following of the atrocities, which said "so this is what a well-regulated militia looks like?", legislate to say "yes, you can have your child-killing guns and mas murder weapons, but you must be part of a well-regulated militia, one with a federal license and requirements for training and service."

Of course nothing like that will happen. Children and adults will continue to die in their thousands each year.

[AndyinPA]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... angry-men/

The United States is one of the only countries in the world where mass public shootings are a regular occurrence. Researchers Jillian Peterson from Hamline University and James Densley from Metropolitan State University, both in St. Paul, Minn., have spent their careers tracking these events, and their research shows that attacks are overwhelmingly carried out by men whose ages are strikingly clustered around two key periods in their lives.

Workplace attacks have been mostly carried out by men in middle age. School shootings, on the other hand, involve perpetrators mostly in their late teens or early 20s. Men in these same two age groups, Peterson points out, also have higher rates of suicide largely using firearms.



In the stories of young shooters, experts say there’s often a disconnect between the lives they lead and the lives they think they should have. But while most people endure such disappointment, these perpetrators appear to have gone through a series of psychological changes that led to their explosions of violence.

Although I think there's absolutely no reason for any private citizen to own one of these weapons of war, at least we should be keeping them out of the hands of this age group.

The article is giftable, so anyone might be able to access the link.

[Patagoniagirl]

Excellent article, Andy. Thank you.

[Volkonski]

[raison de arizona]

Now that’s bravery.

Also, I suppose that is one take.