The dregs of birther remainders.

[pipistrelle]

A2? What does he know about Ann Arbor?

[northland10]

There is really only one thing somebody needs to know about Ann Arbor.



I heard they also might have a med school or something there.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

My dad retired from the hospital as a System Administrator. (He also graduated from Hillsdale College )

[realist]

He's got the legal issues covered:

ELECTION REFORM INITIATIVES
Legal Resources

The following legal resources are available for download and presentation to any government authority.

Amicus Curiae Brief
AMICUS-BRIEF-Laity-v-Harris-Case-No-20-cv-2511-EGS

The Original Public Meaning of “Natural Born Citizen"
By Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
Filed Nov 10, 2020

Amicus Curiae Brief
​AMICUS-BRIEF-OSAH-SECSTATE-CE:126823-60-MALIHI
Georgia Presidential Eligibility Case
By Leo C. Donofrio, Esq.
Filed Jan 23, 2012

[bob]

P&E: RNC Presidential Candidate Vetted for Sole-Allegiance as Natural Born Citizen in 1916:

Justice Rehnquist of the U.S. Supreme Court said being a citizen is not sufficient to be President, that one must be a natural born citizen, which Haley is not due to her multiple allegiances at birth.

This is a reference to Sugarman v. Douglass, in which SCOTUS invalided a state law restricting certain civil-servant positions to U.S. citizens. In dissent, Rehnquist wrote, "The President must not only be a citizen but 'a natural born Citizen,' Art. II, § 1, cl. 5. One might speculate what meaning Art. IV, § 2, cl. 1, has today."

A dumb line; a line so dumb that only birthers buy into the strawman that some (unspecified) people believe citizen and natural-born citizen are synonymous.

Trump, after “unofficially campaigning” between CPAC in February 2011 and his announcement not to half-heartedly run on May 16th, was informed by a delegation to Trump Tower on April 8th that Barack Obama was not a natural born citizen since his father was an alien. As documented in this recorded interview with the members of the delegation [and discussed on Volin's now deceased show], Trump understood that being a natural born citizen with sole-allegiance was a Constitutional requirement; a wholly separate issue from Obama’s fraudulent ID’s, yet just as importantly deserved his attention. Trump can never claim to not know what a natural born citizen is, or that the Republic is being destroyed from within. Even Sun Yet Sen, China’s first President; had a Hawaiian birth certificate.

One that everyone knew was fake, and Obama isn't Sun Yet Sen.

Trump ran against Lowell Weicker who was born in Paris, France and not a natural born citizen.

Weicker was born abroad, but he was never ruled ineligible. And there's no rational reason to believe a court ever would have.

Too also: there was no "running" against: there were polls about the Reform Party's 2000 candidates. Weicker never ran (Buchanan won the nomination).

The whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Here is incontrovertible proof from the Library of Congress that vetting against an ineligible Presidential candidate did in fact occur in 1916.

It is actually a request (ultimately originating from Breckinridge Long, one of Wilson's advisors) for research about Charles Evans Hughes' father's citizenship status.

Long, a known xenophobe, eventually would write an opinion piece, after the 1916 election was over, arguing Hughes was ineligible.


(I cut a bunch of repetitive filler from the P&E's article.)

[realist]

Thanks, bob.

[bob]

P&E: Ramaswamy Enters Presidential Race:

IS HE A "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN?"

On Tuesday’s “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” biotech and financial entrepreneur, attorney and author Vivek Ramaswamy announced he will seek the Republican nomination for the 2024 presidential race.

Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution requires that the president and commander-in-chief be a “natural born Citizen,” a term not precisely defined by the Founders. Two main schools of thought are that it signifies, “born in the U.S. to citizen parents” or, alternatively, “born in the United States” without reference to the parents’ citizenship.

Two households, but unalike in dignity.

According to his Twitter profile and Wikipedia entry, Ramaswamy was born in Cincinnati, OH in 1985; with an August birthday, he is currently 37 years old.

At 12:29 p.m. EST, discussing Ramaswamy’s newly-minted candidacy, Harris Faulker of the Fox News program, “Outnumbered” reported, “He’s old enough to run for president, because viewers have asked, and we checked…”

Ramaswamy’s campaign site reports he was “raised in Cincinnati.”

At 12:06 p.m. Wednesday, this writer attempted to contact Ramaswamy by completing the form on his website, but the “Message” field would not accept any text.

Shrouding Rondeau is newsworthy!

And of course:

It is unknown whether Haley’s parents, described as “immigrants,” became U.S. citizens before or after their daughter’s birth in South Carolina in 1972. At 12:22 p.m. Wednesday, The Post & Email submitted the following through the contact form on her campaign website:

This is a media inquiry. Were Nikki Haley’s parents naturalized as U.S. citizens at any time before or after her birth?

MORE SHROUDING!

Laity is going to have a busy 20 months!

[bob]

P&E: Hannity Asks Ramaswamy if He Launched Presidential Campaign for “Name Recognition”:

In one of the last segments of his show Thursday night, “Hannity” host Sean Hannity spoke on camera with Vivek Ramaswamy, who declared his presidential candidacy on Tucker Carlson’s show Monday night.

* * *

As The Post & Email reported, it is seeking to learn whether Ramaswamy’s parents became U.S. citizens, and if so, when. Ramaswamy’s website contact form did not work properly when we attempted to ask the question Wednesday morning.

* * *

On several occasions The Post & Email interviewed the late Atty. Mario Apuzzo on his understanding of the term as well as the ramifications of the 14th Amendment, which many believe justifies their understanding that the president need only have been born in the United States, regardless of his parents’ citizenship at the time, to serve.

* * *

Legal scholar Joseph DeMaio has written extensively on what is believed to be the “de Vattel” definition of “natural born Citizen,” referencing the writings of Swiss scholar and historian Emmerich de Vattel, as opposed to the more “modern” interpretation of the term as simply a birth within the United States regardless of the parents’ citizenship.

* * *

With those arguments, many contend Joe Biden’s vice president, Kamala Harris, is ineligible to serve given that her parents were not U.S. citizens when she was born in California in 1964.

Barack Hussein Obama, whose presumed father was a British citizen at the time of his claimed 1961 birth in Hawaii, is also ineligible under the interpretation.

Going back farther, many believe Chester A. Arthur, who served as president from 1881 to 1885, was ineligible given the claim, supported by documentation located by Leo Donofrio appearing to demonstrate, that Arthur’s father did not naturalize as an American citizen until 1843, when Chester was 14.

The exact location of Arthur’s birth has never been established by definitive proof, and some reports suggest he may have misstated the year of his birth. The day before he died, Arthur ordered burned the family Bible containing the family’s records.

[Patagoniagirl]

Where are the birthers = that Indian gal?

[Sam the Centipede]

Wow! What a name check by Rharon of all those legal greats: Apuzzo!! DeMaio!! Donofrio!!

How can Obama remain as president for another year?! He has to go!

[Foggy]

Legal scholar Joseph DeMaio ...

[bob]

Legal scholar Joseph DeMaio (a nom d'birth)

FIFRondeau.

For Rondeau, a "legal scholar" is someone who (1) writes (2) about law stuff that (3) aligns with her beliefs.

Peer review not required. Recognition in the professional community unnecessary. Heck, real names are optional.

But, yeah, I noticed how Rondeau was just recycling Dead Apuzzo (NADT; he's already dead) and dead-to-them Donofrio (who wiped his blog and has moved on).

* * *

Where are the birthers = that Indian gal?

Oh, they are all over Haley.

By "all over," I mean they'll whine to each other on Rondeau's blog but otherwise do nothing of note, and receive no attention. Again.

[Reality Check]

Legal scholar Joseph DeMaio (a nom d'birth)

FIFRondeau.

For Rondeau, a "legal scholar" is someone who (1) writes (2) about law stuff that (3) aligns with her beliefs.

Peer review not required. Recognition in the professional community unnecessary. Heck, real names are optional.

But, yeah, I noticed how Rondeau was just recycling Dead Apuzzo (NADT; he's already dead) and dead-to-them Donofrio (who wiped his blog and has moved on).

* * *

Where are the birthers = that Indian gal?

Oh, they are all over Haley.

By "all over," I mean they'll whine to each other on Rondeau's blog but otherwise do nothing of note, and receive no attention. Again.

Let's see.... the late DUI attorney who lost every eligibility case he tried to litigate who even managed to get a few judges to tell him his theory on NBC was FOS and and some guy with no legal credentials at all. Yep, a very impressive group of experts Sharon.

[Foggy]

Yeah, I was thinking about the law library at the University of Southern California, which is a massive building all on its own. (An earthquake hit just before it opened, and they had to re-shelve all the books. )

Gigantic library, full of books, periodicals, hornbooks, audio-visual resources out the yin-yang. They have the works of legal scholars going back before the founding of this great nation, but if you went there and asked to see the legal scholarship of Joseph DeMaio, they would think you were crazy.

And of course, his scholarship only relates to one clause - not even a whole sentence - in the Constitution, that allowed a scary scary black man to be president. AFAIK, he has no writings on any other legal subject. He's the ultimate one trick pony.

[bob]

P&E: Twitter User Calls for Ramaswamy to Release Parents’ Naturalization Documents:

Late Saturday morning in the Eastern time zone, Twitter account-holder MAPennell replied to a tweet of The Post & Email’s by recommending that 2024 presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy make public his “parent’s” [sic] Certificate of Naturalization to demonstrate he is a “natural born Citizen,” one of three requirements in Article II of the U.S. Constitution for the nation’s chief executive and commander-in-chief.

I fergit if "@MAPennell" is one of Rondeau's three remaining birthers, or just another rando Twitter birther. But this user blocked some jerk* around a year ago due to a "disagreement" over Haley's natural-born citizenship.

MAPennell’s profile indicates he follows The Post & Email as well as narratives centered on the former UK Prince Harry and his wife, American actress Meghan Markle. On his Twitter masthead, MAPennell displays an image containing both the UK and U.S. flags.

In addition to responding to The Post & Email’s tweet, MAPennell directed his message to journalist Emerald Robinson, previously of Newsmax and current host of “The Absolute Truth” on MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell’s Frankspeech website.

* * *

“To stop doubt of @VivekGRamaswamy (Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 Natural Born Citizen eligibility),” MAPennell wrote,” followed by, “instead of serving the House or Senate where one only need be a citizen…” “He should post both parent’s (Certificate of Naturalization) which they should be proud of.”

The statements are accompanied by a screenshot of the Constitution’s Article II, Section 1, clause 5, the “natural born Citizen” requirement.

A second screenshot references three U.S. Supreme Court cases The Venus, Minor v. Happersett, and “Ex parte Reynolds, 1879,” which this non-lawyer writer believes to be Reynolds v. United States, a case unrelated to the “natural born Citizen” issue.

The Post & Email responded to MAPennell’s tweet about Ramaswamy with, “Thank you — story coming!”

Unbeknownst to us at the time, our reply was copied to Robinson and Ramaswamy.

MAPennell then indicated he “liked” the tweet.

After researching Reynolds, we sent MAPennell a second reply requesting clarification given that it appeared the reference in the context of “natural born Citizen” was a mistaken one. As of press time, we have not received a reply. . . . .

Update, 9:56 a.m. EST: In a notable coincidence, after tweeting a link to this story and refreshing the Twitter page, the first two tweets visible to us were from Robinson and Ramaswamy, respectively, although not responsive to the “natural born Citizen” topic . . . .

Two birthers birthering on Twitter is newsworthy!

Bonus:

On the 23rd of February of this year I contacted his campaign using the supplied contact form on his webpage and asked him for the immigration status of his parents when he was born and/or … were they citizens of the USA when he was born. I provided my name, zip code, and email address. I did not get a direct reply.

Instead my name and email address was put onto his campaign’s marketing bulk email list and I now get regular promotional email from his campaign regarding his latest campaign statements.

He and his campaign are obviously avoiding the question. That makes me strongly suspect his parents were not citizens of the USA when Vivek Ramaswamy was born and he is hiding that. His status is apparently in the same category as Jindal, Haley, Rubio, and others … that is born in the USA to non-citizen parents and thus born with dual-Citizenship and allegiance to more than one country at birth. And if that is the case, he thus is not a “natural born Citizen” of the United States and is NOT an Article II Section 1 Clause 5 constitutionally eligible person to be President and Commander in Chief of our military, or the VP per the 12th Amendment. A natural born Citizen of the United States is a person born with unity of Citizenship and sole allegiance at birth to the USA and only the USA. That is what the founders and framers wanted for future Commander in Chiefs. A natural born Citizen is a person born in the USA to parents who were both Citizens (born citizens or naturalized citizens) of the USA when their child was born.

* * *

The relevant question to ask is if Ranswarmy, Haley & Harris hold or have held foreign citizenship if the answer is yes then they’re not Natural Born Citizens. When the 14th amendment was passed Native Americans were excluded due to being subject to tribal jurisdiction. Individuals who invoke the 14th amendment as making one eligible are mistaken as individuals who have dual citizenship are subject to the jurisdiction of another country, something the framers would never have allowed.
Ted Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2016 as if writing a letter to Canada would all of the sudden make him a Natural Born Citizen. One is a either Natural Born Citizen at birth or they’re not. One can’t become one in their mid 40’s.
Ask the question of foreign citizenship, they may not even know they hold foreign citizenship.

I respectfully suggest that you (and others in this thread) contact Vivek Ramaswamy and ask him that question as you have worded it. The more who ask him the more likely he will be forced to address the questions.

Three birthers "just asking questions" will shirley cause Ramaswamy's spam generator to reconsider its position.


*

[bob]

P&E: Twitter User Calls for Ramaswamy to Release Parents’ Naturalization Documents

So nice, Rondeau wrote it twice: P&E: Do Americans “Know Who They Are”?:

"WITHOUT A DIVIDED LOYALTY"

On Sunday morning, The Post & Email published an article reflecting a dialogue initiated with us by Twitter user @MAPennell regarding the U.S. Constitution’s “natural born Citizen” clause as it relates to Ohio-born 2024 presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy.

* * *

In an undated lecture, the late constitutional attorney, author, scholar and former Constitution Party vice-presidential candidate Herb Titus, citing Federalist 68, expressed his interpretation that the president “had to be born of parents who were allegiant to the country of the United States; two parents — not just one — two parents” (43:00), distinguishing from the 14th Amendment’s provision that freed slaves were to be considered “citizens.”

Titus went farther, opining that the Electoral College cast majority votes for Obama while knowing he was ineligible, as Kerchner argued in his 2009 lawsuit.

* * *

The first two cases MAPennell’s screenshot cited, The Venus (1814) and Minor v. Happersett (1874), are well-known to this publication and its audience for their applicability to the “natural born Citizen” question through the writings of the late Attorney Mario Apuzzo; his former client in challenging Barack Obama’s presidential eligibility, CDR Charles F. Kerchner, Jr. (Ret); legal scholar Joseph DeMaio; and The Post & Email itself from online sources.

MAPennell’s third case reference, “Ex parte Reynolds, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402″ we were unable to locate, leading us to believe it was a mistaken invocation of Reynolds v. United States (1879), which argued that an anti-bigamy law passed by Congress violated the First Amendment.

We replied to MAPennell, asking him/her to clarify which case the screenshot invoked.

Upon logging into our Twitter account Monday morning, The Post & Email found MAPennell to have sent us a “notification” indicating that the screenshot included in his tweet “has NOT been altered other than adding red ovals to bring attention to the fraud.”

“The image is a screenshot from a live broadcast,” he/she added. However, through another notification, MAPennell indicated he was referring to an earlier tweet about the reported 2020 election results between Joe Biden and Donald Trump and not the Reynolds case.

Within the same time frame, The Post & Email received an email from presidential eligibility challenger, longtime reader, and Founder and President of the Society for the Preservation of our American Republic Robert C. Laity containing a link to the correct Reynolds opinion.

Laity also posted the link and a second reference in a comment responsive to Sunday’s article. “There are several ‘Ex Parte Reynolds’ cases in the books,” he wrote. “The one that we bought is ‘Ex Parte Reynolds’, 1879 5 Dill., 394, 402.”

“The court in this case uses the same definition of NBC as Vattel did without citing Vattel,” Laity concluded, although clarifying to this writer Tuesday morning that Reynolds did, in fact, reference Vattel directly.

* * *

On Monday afternoon The Post & Email consulted with DeMaio, who pointed out that Ex parte Reynolds is not a U.S. Supreme Court case, but rather, an opinion issued by a trial (circuit) court in Arkansas and that toward the conclusion, the court order invoked Vattel and The Law of Nations.

A later exchange with MAPennell, in reverse order, consists of our tweet to him/her stating we would correct the record in regard to the Reynolds case.

“Thank you,” he/she replied, “I appreciate you updating the article. With schools sans civics, it’s an uphill battle…”

At approximately 5:45 p.m. EST Monday, MAPennell tweeted, “Natural Born Citizen is a worldwide standard. Worldwide the ‘majority population’ of most countries are Natural Born Citizens – children who were ‘born in the country’ where their parents are citizens. It is the most common citizenship status. Americans don’t know who they are”.

Also on Monday evening, Kerchner tweeted . . . .

On Sunday afternoon, The Post & Email attempted to contact Ramaswamy through his campaign website with a similar query but based on the result is not certain the submission went through.

Action versus achievement, etc.

[bob]

P&E: Twitter User Calls for Ramaswamy to Release Parents’ Naturalization Documents

So nice, Rondeau wrote it twice: P&E: Do Americans “Know Who They Are”?

So nice, Rondeau wrote it thrice: P&E: The “Natural Born” Question: Will it be Answered?:

Late Monday afternoon, Twitter user @MAPennell tweeted The Post & Email’s latest article featuring his/her tweets about the presidential requirement of “natural born Citizen” stemming from the account’s challenge to 2024 presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy to release his parents’ citizenship documentation to prove his eligibility for the office.

* * *

The Post & Email’s most recent article on the “natural born” subject was issued to correct the record on its having mistaken MAPennell’s invocation of an 1879 judicial opinion, the third of three in a screenshot touching on the meaning of “natural born Citizen,” for an unrelated one issued the same year though with a similar name.

MAPennell’s initial tweet to us referenced Ex Parte Reynolds involving a male American Indian and his claim of U.S. citizenship and voting rights prior to the passage of the Indian Citizenship Act.

Notably, the court’s opinion quoted Swiss jurist and philosopher Emmerich de Vattel, whose 1858 treatise, The Law of Nations, is considered by many historians and scholars to have been a strong influence on the Framers of the U.S. Constitution.

“Vattel,” the opinion states on page 11, “in his Law of Nations (page 101), says: ‘As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, these children naturally follow the condition of their fathers and succeed to their rights. * * * The country of the father is, therefore, that of the children, and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent,” [sic]…By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers and enter into all their rights.”

* * *

The Twitter conversation, copied to several other parties, on Tuesday generated MAPennell’s response and reiteration by recipient @lgstarr*: “Usurpation of the American presidency, borne at best of ignorance and at worst of indifference, greed, malice, or a Faustian bargain.”

The statement is followed by a quote attributed to the late scientist and Cornell University professor of astronomy Carl Sagan taken from a book he co-wrote in 1996, “The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.”

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.

The sad irony.

* @lgstarr is, of course, Linda Starr. A name that the OG anti-birthers will recognize.

[Foggy]

How much wrongness can a wrong person wring from a wrong idea, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

[bob]

How much wrongness can a wrong person wring from a wrong idea, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

FUNNY YOU SHOULD ASK; P&E comments:

Some, including constitutional scholars, and particularly many in The Post & Email’s audience, believe “natural born Citizen” to mean, “born in the country to citizen parents.”

Dr. Herb Titus (mentioned in the linked article) did not believe that a natural born citizen had to be born in the US. He said they could be born anywhere as long as they had two citizen parents.

The linked reference to Titus was incorrect; it should have been to the late Mario Apuzzo. That correction has been made.

[pipistrelle]

Journalism is all about documenting randos’ twitters.

[Foggy]

Yeah, at some point the birthers will be able to provide a very, very long list of all the people who ran for president or vice president but were ineligible to serve. A very, very long list of people, not one of whom has ever been found to be ineligible by a court of law. Ramaswamy is just the most recent, but there will be more this cycle.

Dual-parent natural born citizenship is the gift lie that never stops giving.

On the bright side, most Americans can't even understand the argument.

[Luke]

Foggy, maybe it's time for you and Sharon Rondeau to have a Post & Fogbow Summit where you and Sharon can moderate a discussion with their brain trust of Rev Dr Laity Esq & DeMaio against our home team! Realist and Miki Booth can be the refs. Wouldn't that be fun?

ETA: BONUS!

Nikita's_UN_Shoesays:
Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 1:05 PM
My next opinionated dissertation will be on the citizenship of American Indians, aka native Americans, at a future time.

I've been meaning to ask RC... I use Podcast Addict and have RC Radio subscribed on it... but a lot of the podcasts say they are missing. Like the titles & descriptions are there, but they won't play. I've really enjoyed hearing them again, we can't lose them!

[Reality Check]

I've been meaning to ask RC... I use Podcast Addict and have RC Radio subscribed on it... but a lot of the podcasts say they are missing. Like the titles & descriptions are there, but they won't play. I've really enjoyed hearing them again, we can't lose them!

Since I dropped my premium subscription to BlogTalk Radio most of the archived shows will not play from there. A couple of years ago I paid for a month of premium and downloaded all the shows to my local storage. I think a few early shows from 2009 were lost but I got all the rest of them saved. I need to find a place to upload them so they are publicly available. I have an Inmotion Hosting account with unlimited storage so I think I could host them there given the time and the know how.

[Luke]

Cool RC, really happy you have them! You can even upload to YouTube, there are lots of audiobooks on there, maybe they have a bulk upload feature.

[northland10]

I'm still waiting for those textbooks the birthers promised that show that 2 citizen parents, or even one, was the rule they swore they were taught. We have asked. Still waiting.