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The dregs of birther remainders.

These people are weird, but we like to find out what weird people are doing and thinking. It's a hobby.
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noblepa
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#126

Post by noblepa »

Joseph DeMaio wrote:OK, in the continuing simmering stew of issues bubbling around the 2020 general election and the results of same, one particular issue caught your humble servant’s eye. That issue concerns the role now being played by “The My Pillow Guy,” Mike Lindell. While his heart may be in the right place, an argument could be made that he is not receiving the best of legal advice.

No, I suspect that Lindell is getting very good legal advice, at least from any licensed attorneys he has consulted.

He simply chooses to ignore that advice and, instead listen to the voices on YouTube and in his head.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#127

Post by bob »

So: Tisdale.

For the newbs: In 2012, Charles Tisdale filed a federal pro per lawsuit against Obama. The district court cited Wong Kim Ark, noted Obama's a natural-born citizen, and promptly dismissed. The 4th Circuit quickly affirmed the dismissal in a terse, unpublished ruling.

Nonetheless, P&E resident eggspurt DeMaio wrote many words about this case. I can't be bothered to carry it over, but it is unintentionally funny.

Then, in the comments!:
Mario Apuzzo wrote:If anyone wants to read what I wrote about the Tisdale decision, you can read my blog post dated February 16, 2021, entitled “
Tisdale v. Obama and the “Natural Born Citizen” Clause, found at
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2012/02/tisda ... -born.html
No, but thanks for offering! Continuing:
What is amazing about Tisdale is that the Court dismissed the case on the same day that the pro se plaintiff filed his complaint, January 23, 2012, by simply filing an Order. The docket of the court even has the Court’s dismissal order of January 23, 2012, as Document 2 while the complaint which was also filed on January 23, 2012, is listed as Document 3. So, the Court did not even wait for the court clerk’s office to upload the complaint to the court’s website or for the defendants to file an answer or a motion to dismiss for lack of standing or based on some other defense. Rather, the Court simply on its own on January 23, 2012 (the same day the complaint was filed which I presume was done either in person or by mail and not electronically) dismissed the complaint for what is written in the complaint, not even giving the pro se plaintiff the chance to brief the legal issue of the meaning of a “natural born Citizen.” The Court dismissed the complaint so quickly that the defendants did not even have to argue that the plaintiff does not have standing. The court’s sudden actions also leave us thinking how much research and thought did the court put into its dismissal order which is based on the definition of an Article II “natural born Citizen,” a definition which in the eyes of the Founders and Framers has monumental and critical importance to the survival and preservation of the constitutional republic. The Court did not render any comprehensive decision. This Order is not a published precedential decision, and Obama’s supporters surely keep that fact out of the public discussion.

On January 24, 2012 (the next day after the dismissal), pro se plaintiff filed a Notice of Appeal to the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. I filed amicus curiae brief to the 4th Circuit. The 4th Circuit “Affirmed by unpublished per curiam opinion.” See No. 12-1124. The Court simply stated that it found no reversible error in the lower court decision. It did not reach the merits of the meaning of a natural born citizen or whether Barack Obama was a natural born citizen.

The bottom line is that all the commenters’ massaging here cannot change the fact that Tisdale is a poorly reasoned and supported decision of our courts and is not a presidential decision on the meaning of a natural born citizen.
So Apuzzo is Not Yet Dead. (NADT.) :towel:

Apuzzo can't be bothered to clean up the cobwebs on his own site, but has the time to grace Rondeau's.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#128

Post by realist »

From the Birther Scorecard:
Screenshot 2021-06-18 at 12-31-23 Birther Scorecard String Cite Birthers Win O - Lose - 220 - Pending - 6 - Total - 226 - U[...].png
Screenshot 2021-06-18 at 12-31-23 Birther Scorecard String Cite Birthers Win O - Lose - 220 - Pending - 6 - Total - 226 - U[...].png (44.25 KiB) Viewed 4513 times
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#129

Post by Reality Check »

bob wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:10 pm So: American Samoa.

American Samoa is an unincorporated territory, and its citizens are considered U.S. nationals, and not U.S. citizens. A district court had ruled they were U.S. citizens, but today the 10th Cir. reversed that ruling.

:snippity:
I skimmed through the decision. There is not much (if anything) in there to help the two citizen parent Birthers except that the 10th rejected the idea that WKA required using English common law when applied to US citizenship. The 10th rather relied on the Insular cases of the early 20th century which even the court admitted were somewhat racist decisions. It will be interesting to see if the full 10th or SCOTUS takes up the case on appeal. The lower court had deviated dramatically from previous cases on American Samoan citizenship so it is not surprising that the 10th would find a way to maintain the status quo.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#130

Post by bob »

Reality Check wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pmThere is not much (if anything) in there to help the two citizen parent Birthers except that the 10th rejected the idea that WKA required using English common law when applied to US citizenship.
Yeah; the 10th Cir. walked back the idea that English common law was controlling. A sane person would read the 10th Cir.'s decision to say English common law provides guidance generally (and did specifically provide guidance in Wong Kim Ark). But in the indirect-confirmation bizarro birther world, that's just nudge-nudge wink-wink for Vattel to be the secret source.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#131

Post by Jim »

bob wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:25 pm Apuzzo can't be bothered to clean up the cobwebs on his own site, but has the time to grace Rondeau's.
Is he even getting enough hits to make the site worthwhile?
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#132

Post by bob »

Jim wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm
bob wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:25 pm Apuzzo can't be bothered to clean up the cobwebs on his own site, but has the time to grace Rondeau's.
Is he even getting enough hits to make the site worthwhile?
Objection! Assumes Apuzzo's site ever was worthwhile. ;)

For a while now, Apuzzo has been content to just approve comments from a few lonely birthers (sans his own replies).

Apuzzo did briefly perk up around the inauguration and second impeachment trial, but once his beliefs were again ignored, he fell back asleep.

I don't know why Apuzzo still keeps his blog around, other than it doesn't cost him anything.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#133

Post by Reality Check »

bob wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:14 pm :snippity:
Yeah; the 10th Cir. walked back the idea that English common law was controlling. A sane person would read the 10th Cir.'s decision to say English common law provides guidance generally (and did specifically provide guidance in Wong Kim Ark). But in the indirect-confirmation bizarro birther world, that's just nudge-nudge wink-wink for Vattel to be the secret source.
And that is exactly what we have said when arguing with Apuzzo and others in comment sections and elsewhere. The founding fathers were guided by English common law when they used the term natural born citizen because that's what they had known natural born to be. They were certainly not guided by de Vattel.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#134

Post by bob »

bob wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:25 pmApuzzo can't be bothered to clean up the cobwebs on his own site, but has the time to grace Rondeau's.
Apuzzo's still holding court at Rondeau's. As is his wont, Apuzzo is re-litigating Tisdale (decided nine years ago) in the Court of Comment Sections. Where Apuzzo is the judge and jury of his own brilliance. :yankyank:

Just the usual Nothing, Like You've Heard before. :yawn:
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#135

Post by bob »

The New American: Evidence Is Clear: Vice President Harris Is Not Constitutionally Eligible to Hold the Office She Now Holds:
Steve Byas wrote:Vice President Kamala Harris is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and is thus ineligible to ever serve as president of the United States, or even to continue in office as vice-president. That is the contention of a lawsuit filed in federal court in California by the Constitution Association, Inc.
The rest is just a warmed-over rehash of its presser and the usual birther incorrect beliefs. :yawn:

Byas teaches instructs at Randall University, a tiny Baptist college with dubious credentials. And The New American is a Bircher publication.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#136

Post by Luke »

When does this get tossed? Maybe we should have a party! We can invite Rev Dr Laity Esq to celebrate his continued crown as the "Last Birther (with no) Standing". It was a little dicey there but he took the self-sanction for rehearing.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#137

Post by bob »

orlylicious wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:29 pm When does this get tossed?
"Soon."

The briefing is complete, so we're waiting on the court. :waiting:

The reality is a shipping clerk's work is never done, and it'll take a while for this case to float to the top of the in-box. And cases such as this often languish because the more serious work has been (correctly) prioritized.

And delay (as is often the case) benefits the defendant, i.e., Harris. She's still out there veeping while these angry dudes impotently rend teeth and gash garments on their public-access AM radio shew.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#138

Post by northland10 »

orlylicious wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:29 pm When does this get tossed? Maybe we should have a party! We can invite Rev Dr Laity Esq to celebrate his continued crown as the "Last Birther (with no) Standing". It was a little dicey there but he took the self-sanction for rehearing.
Since he has a plan B now, and one that actually involves the correct process, we may have to wait. While his rehearing fail will happen at the long conference, if he gets a rep to actually submit even a 1 parent amendment bill, we will need to wait until it dies in committee. In other words, we will have to wait until the next Congress.

At least Laity will have something to put his hopes of for a year in a half.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#139

Post by bob »

northland10 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:11 pm Since he has a plan B now, and one that actually involves the correct process, we may have to wait. While his rehearing fail will happen at the long conference, if he gets a rep to actually submit even a 1 parent amendment bill, we will need to wait until it dies in committee. In other words, we will have to wait until the next Congress.
Yes, but: Birthers generally and Laity specifically are poor listeners and poor narrators; they hear what they want to hear, and report inaccurately.

Laity claims he has been working with a member of Congress. It would appear he is represented by Brian Higgins (NY-26(D)). I doubt Higgins will be entertaining this folly. But Laity may be working with another member.

Regardless, this all smells like a polite FOAD; I don't expect to see a birther amendment actually being introduced.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#140

Post by northland10 »

bob wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:25 pm Regardless, this all smells like a polite FOAD; I don't expect to see a birther amendment actually being introduced.
I posted in the Laity thread that another Birthright Citizenship act was introduced this year at the beginning of the term, like always.

Yeah, and Robert does not hear what others say.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#141

Post by bob »

P&E comment:
Kerchner wrote:What we are experiencing with the redefining the meaning of words and changing language for political purposes has a name. It is derived from its communist, linguist, founder Antonio Gramsci— “Gramscism”. ...
The irony of birthers whining about redefining for political purposes.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#142

Post by bob »

Some rando on Wikipedia indicated that Herb Titus has died. I couldn't find any verification, but I also wouldn't be surprised.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#143

Post by northland10 »

:oldlady:
bob wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:48 pm Some rando on Wikipedia indicated that Herb Titus has died. I couldn't find any verification, but I also wouldn't be surprised.
The change was reverted.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#144

Post by bob »

CNN: House votes to remove Confederate statues and replace Roger B. Taney bust.

Birther translation: WOKE DEMONRATS CANCELLING VATTEL!

(Yes, I am aware Taney didn't cite Vattel.)
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#145

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

(Yes, I am aware Taney didn't cite Vattel.)

He would have if he could have. :mrgreen:
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#146

Post by bob »

I came across this interesting proto-birther case.

Pablo de la Guerra was elected to serve as a California judge, and California judges are required to be U.S. citizens. Some proto-birthers filed a lawsuit (it looks it was a quo warranto petition), claiming de la Guerra actually was Mexican. Because he was born in Mexico.

Which is all true. Because de la Guerra was born in Santa Barbara. In 1819. When it was still part of Mexico.

The old-timey birthers lost, as de la Guerra remained in now-California, and his continued presence granted him U.S. citizenship.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#147

Post by bob »


:lol:
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#148

Post by Volkonski »

Indeed. Superman was an undocumented immigrant. A refugee.
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#149

Post by bbflatt »

Title 8 USC:
§1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
[subsections (a) through (g) omitted]
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
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Re: The dregs of birther remainders.

#150

Post by Volkonski »

Superman was known to have been born on another planet when he was a teenager. (If you reference the original comic book timeline of his life. )
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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