The dregs of birther remainders.

[realist]

P&E comments:

An honest court, seeking a decision based on the intent of the Framers, would have to rule Gabbard ineligible.

* *

Moreover, Vivek Ramaswamy could do the Republic a great service if, now that he is no longer a presidential aspirant, he acknowledged that he was not an nbC; that he agrees that Nikki Haley and Kamala Harris are also constitutionally ineligible; and that for that reason, Harris should resign.

Do not hold your breath on that option, despite the fact that it quickly would solve a lot of problems.

This kind of talk shows birthers know they'll never win in the real world. They're content to in Rondeau's comment section.

[Reality Check]

One question I like to pose to Birther crazies like Leonard Daneman is something like this:

• The Supreme COurt has stated several times that there are two kinds of US citizens, natural born and naturalized.
• Wong Kim Ark was ruled to be a citizen. What kind of citizen was he?

Usually at this point they dodge the question or, like Apuzzo lie and claim there are 3 class of citizens. Leonard really told a whopper and claimed WKA was naturalized. This was the exchange we had:

The SC in Wong Kim Ark decided Wong was a citizen by being born on U.S. soil under the feudal concept of jus soli, an antiquated and rejected British common law. This was not only in conflict with existing statute, but unconstitutional.

DEFINITION: Naturalized

Naturalization is the dealienage of foreign allegiance and nationality through operation of law. In the case of Obama, he was a citizen at birth solely by statute which dealienaged his fathers British nationality through statute, specifically 8 USC 1409(c) if I recall correctly.

My response:

Of course the truth is that Wong Kim Ark could not become a naturalized citizen by law since the Chinese Exclusion Acts prevented someone of Chinese heritage from naturalizing. The court never found them to be unconstitutional and mentioned them in this very case:

It is conceded that, if he is a citizen of the United States, the acts of Congress, known as the Chinese Exclusion Acts, prohibiting persons of the Chinese race, and especially Chinese laborers, from coming into the United States, do not and cannot apply to him.

So the court said that had he not been a citizen at birth he would be subject to deportation and this implies of course his parents could not naturalize so he could not be a citizen by parentage nor could he naturalize later. His only path to citizenship was to be natural born by birth in California.

One of the leading attorneys in the United States at the time of Wong Kim Ark, WIlliam Dameron Guthrie, wrote about the decision:

“The phrase ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ in this clause has occasioned considerable difficulty. If the parents of a child born in the United States were citizens the meaning was clear. But what was to be the status of a child born in the United States of Indians or of Chinese or other alien parentage? In the leading case of Elk v Wilkins it was decided that an Indian born a member of one of our Indian tribes still existing and recognized as such even tho he had voluntarily separated himself from his people, and taken up his residence among the white citizens, but who did not appear to have been naturalized or taxed, was not born in the United States subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and was not a citizen. He was born subject to the jurisdiction of his tribe. This decision left in uncertainty the legal status of all others born in the United States of alien parentage. Was their citizenship to be determined by the common-law of locality of birth or was the rule of the civil law as to the allegiance of the parents to control? This question was not settled until a few weeks ago thirty years after the amendment adopted thus showing how slowly constitutional law develops the life of a nation. The common law rule has been finally affirmed by the Supreme Court in the recent case of the United States v Wong Kim Ark. The Supreme Court held that a child born in this country of Chinese parents domiciled here is a citizen of the United States by virtue of the locality of his birth. The whole subject is discussed at length in the opinions of this case. The effect of this decision is to make citizens of the United States, by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment, all persons born in United States of alien parents and permanently domiciled here, except the children of the diplomatic representatives of foreign powers; and therefore, a male child born here of alien Chinese subjects is now eligible to the office of President, altho his parents could not be naturalized under our laws.

Of course the government in opposition in WKA also wrote about the horrors that ruling in favor of WKA it would make Chinese born on US soil eligible to become president some day.

So paralegalnm you are completely wrong. Wong Kim Ark was a natural born citizen and every honest person knows it.

[bob]

Usually at this point they dodge the question or, like Apuzzo lie and claim there are 3 class of citizens. Leonard really told a whopper and claimed WKA was naturalized.

Birthers (and those more recently "questioning" Haley and Ramaswamy) invented a "rule" that, if your citizenship was acquired by an act of Congress, you naturalized.

No court, of course, has said this. It also isn't logical because, if you look at 8 U.S.C. sec. 1401, it explains who a citizen is. In other words, literally every U.S. citizen "naturalized" under that dumb definition.

And, more philosophically, citizens and nations don't exist in nature. All nations, all citizens exist due to positive law.

[p0rtia]

Thanks, guys. Love these journeys down memory lane.

[Luke]

RWNJ posts a Mike Zullo interview Enjoy commenting on this:

Not A Number @myhiddenvalue 2h

Experts confirm in a full 10-minute report:

Barack Obama's birth certificate is fake

[bob]

P&E: Many “Conspiracy Theories” are True:

A few of today’s well-known and most disputed conspiracy theories are described below. My belief is that naysayers will eventually learn that many of these so-called conspiracies are NOT nefarious plots or unfounded stories.

* * *

1. So-called “BIRTHERISM.” This is the widely disputed and intensely attacked conspiracy theory that Barack Hussein Obama was not born in the United States and therefore was not constitutionally eligible to run for or become president. I myself am a “birther,” and have been since 2008-09. To me, the decision about whether this conspiracy is true or false was an easy one to make. Obama’s claim of being a “natural born (American) citizen” in compliance with Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of our Constitution is refuted by the findings of multiple forensic document experts. They concluded beyond a doubt that Obama’s “birth certificate” is an amateurish, photo-shopped, pieced-together forgery.

* * *

So there you have it. Call me crazy.

Some day, though, I believe history will “get the story straight.”

"Some day," ... any day now.

[bob]

P&E: Reason Prevails; Rationalization Fails:

[Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson] specifically reference Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 of the Constitution, viz., the “Eligibility Clause” (see p. 4, “protest” statement*) which has been exhaustively addressed by your humble servant and others here at The P&E for many years. While their statement carelessly labels it as the “Presidential Qualifications” clause . . . , they specifically recognize it as being an example of the primacy of self-executing constitutional provisions.

And while the USSC has thus far displayed spectacular indifference to addressing and resolving the issue of what the Founders intended and meant when adopting the “natural born Citizen” (“nbC”) restriction in the Constitution, the fact that even Sotomayor, Kagan and Jackson recognize the self-executing nature of the Eligibility Clause is a significant step in the right direction. If and/or when the Court decides it can no longer “evade” the nbC issue and actually accepts a case involving the issue, rest assured, the “Sotomayor/Kagan/Jackson protest” statement will be referenced.

Of course, SCOTUS can't hear a case if no one files one.

* Concurrence:

Section 5 gives Congress the “power to enforce [the Amendment] by appropriate legislation.” Remedial legislation of any kind, however, is not required. All the Reconstruction Amendments (including the due process and equal protection guarantees and prohibition of slavery) “are self-executing,” meaning that they do not depend on legislation. City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 524 (1997); see Civil Rights Cases, 109 U. S. 3, 20 (1883). Similarly, other constitutional rules of disqualification, like the two-term limit on the Presidency, do not require implementing legislation. See, e.g., Art. II, §1, cl. 5 (Presidential Qualifications); Amdt. 22 (Presidential Term Limits). Nor does the majority suggest otherwise.

[bob]

P&E: The Obama Fraud Still Matters, and It Always Will:

My opinion of The Obama Fraud from observation over the years

[realist]

P&E: The Obama Fraud Still Matters, and It Always Will:

My opinion of The Obama Fraud from observation over the years

[bob]

P&E Report: Rubio Floated as VP Pick:

At approximately 2:41 PM EDT Thursday, Fox News’s “America Reports” co-anchor John Roberts, in an interview with third-term Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R), remarked to Rubio that he is on the “short list” of vice-presidential choices of 2024 Republican presidential presumptive nominee Donald J. Trump.

* * *

In 2015 Rubio launched his own presidential campaign but withdrew following the Florida March primary, endorsing Trump the following month. Trump would go on to win the White House in what many considered to be an upset over Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton.

At the time, many in The Post & Email‘s readership questioned Rubio’s eligibility as per the “natural born Citizen” requirement in Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution.

"Many in The Post & Email‘s readership" means "all three."

At 3:32 p.m., in a discussion with former White House senior adviser Kellyanne Conway and former Hillary Clinton adviser Philippe Reines, “The Story” anchor Martha MacCallum again raised the possibility of Rubio’s vice-presidential candidacy with a specific reference to the fact that he “comes from the same state” as Trump.

Conway responded by stating that to avoid that pitfall, Rubio could change his voter registration, as Dick Cheney had in July 2000 prior to being named George W. Bush’s running-mate. Rubio could re-register as a voter in “Michigan,” “Pennsylvania” or some other state, Conway suggested, though she acknowledged he would have to relinquish his Senate seat if that took place.

As with virtually all political commentators, Conway has not acknowledged the “natural born Citizen” question in regard to Rubio or any other presidential or vice-presidential candidate, stating in an earlier Fox News appearance that the requirement is “U.S. citizen.”

When you've lost Kellyanne....

Some reports say Vivek Ramaswamy, who suspended his presidential campaign in January following a poor showing in the Iowa caucuses, is also on Trump’s short list; his birth circumstances mirror those of Rubio’s.

Former South Carolina Governor and former 2024 Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley is also frequently reported to be in contention. However, both surrogates and Trump himself claim Haley is not under consideration.

During the final weeks of her campaign, Haley said she was not interested in the prospect of becoming a vice-presidential candidate.

Who are these woefully wrong "some reports"?

[northland10]

Please, please, please let Turnip pick somebody with an immigrant or not citizen parent. I want to watch heads explode.

[Suranis]

"Many in The Post & Email‘s readership" means "all three."

Well, you are part of "The Post & Email‘s readership."

[noblepa]

Please, please, please let Turnip pick somebody with an immigrant or not citizen parent. I want to watch heads explode.

I agree with you. That would be lots of fun.

However, if he selects one of those, I predict absolute silence from his base.

[bob]

P&E: Is Kennedy VP Pick a natural born Citizen?:

CAMPAIGN DONOR GETS THE NOD, BUT IS SHE ELIGIBLE?

Last Tuesday, Independent 2024 presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. declared he had chosen attorney and philanthropist Nicole Shanahan, 38, as his vice-presidential running-mate.

* * *

Tuesday’s announcement was made in Oakland, CA, where both Shanahan and current Vice President Kamala Harris were born, though more than two decades apart.

* * *

Following Tuesday’s announcement, The San Francisco Standard reported that “Shanahan was born in the Sacramento area* and grew up in Oakland. Her mom is an immigrant from Guangzhou, China, and her late father, a German and Irish American, struggled with substance abuse.”

The San Francisco Standard, however, incorrectly quoted Kennedy as having said Shanahan is the “daughter of an immigrant.”

With only two years of residency in the United States when she gave birth, Shanahan’s mother would not have been eligible to apply to become a U.S. citizen for three more years if she were single. . . .

Wow! Another candidate for the three remaining birthers to grumble about. Maybe Laity will even send a sternly worded letter!


* Placer County, which is part of the greater Sacramento area. But Oakland isn't in Placer County.

[bob]

RUT ROH! It's all fun & games until someone puts an eye out.

Sharon Rondeau and the Post & Email Brain Trust are ON IT! Gosh. RFK Jr may lose the massive BIRTHER VOTE.

* * *

This article says that Shanahan was born in Oakland, but later links to a source saying she was born “in the Sacramento area.” The linked article specifies that she was born in Placer County, but Oakland isn’t in Placer County.

Good point. It appears information on her exact birthplace differs depending on the source in a possible reprise concerning a previous presidential candidate whose reported birthplace was anywhere from two foreign countries thousands of miles apart to a U.S. state to two different hospitals there. This writer will now undertake a thorough probe into exactly where Shanahan was born.

To be fair to Rondeau, this article states (but does not show) that Shanahan was born in Oakland. (It reads like lazy reporting, as Shanahan grew up in Oakland.)

*

[Luke]

Scoop Rondeau is ON IT! Hoping we get at least 10,000 words from "DeMaio".

Speaking of "DeMaio", I WISH I could post and ask what he thinks about his "modest proposal" maybe being turned around to bite him in the ass. That was his proposal that if JUST A FEW DEMOCRATS would switch parties to GOP, he wouldn't have to wait until 2020 to regain the House. I wonder what he thinks of the idea that Hakeem might be Speaker? If it happens, we have to find a way to thank him for the idea.

[bob]

Hoping we get at least 10,000 words from "DeMaio".

Oh, we did; just not about Shanahan: P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen'”:

In 2015, two former high officials in the Office of the Solicitor General in the U.S. Department of Justice – Messrs. Paul Clement, a Republican, and Neal Katyal, a Democrat – jointly authored an article on the Constitution’s “natural born Citizen” term (hereafter, for brevity, “nbC”). Entitled “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen,’” the article appeared in the March 2015 edition of the Harvard Law Review Forum (128 Harv.L.Rev.F. 161), which describes itself as the “the online companion to the print journal (i.e., the Harvard Law Review) and where “[it] hosts scholarly discussion of our print content and timely reactions to recent developments.” Even today, the article is still widely cited as an authoritative source on the nbC issue, thus now warranting a revisiting for a more detailed examination of its contents. . . .

Granted, your servant did not attend Hah-vahd or Yale and has never served as Solicitor General of the United States…, but he has in the past occasionally slept at a Holiday Inn Express®. Is the First Amendment great, or what?

* * *

To be continued.

WWWWWHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY?????

[bob]

P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen'”

P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen’”:

PART II

* * *

To be continued.

Bonus:

Looks like they pulled my sharing attempt to post an excerpt and link back to here of Joe DeMaio newest article about the C&K 2015 paper that gave Ted Cruz a pass to be considered an nbC.

My first attempt at FreeRepublic was in the major political discussion section of FreeRepublic where I usually post articles about political issues like I did regarding the lack of eligibility of Vivek Ramaswamy, etc. When they pulled my post they only gave the reason of “Try again”. I did not know if that was a snide remark or a positive feedback suggestion from the moderator for that section of Free Republic.

So, I waited awhile and then “tried again” and posted an excerpt and link to Joe DeMaio’s latest article in another less obviously major political discussion section of the FreeRepublic site, i.e., Chit/Chat, etc., along with a very brief comment, sans my Euler nbC Diagram image this time. And this time it was allowed to stay up BUT — with a tag put into the key words search field by the moderator, i.e., “birther”.

So you can read the post and comments and discussion there now at this 2nd try link to spread the word about Joe DeMaio’s outstanding new article about the Clements and Katyal’s 2015 paper that stretched any sense of sound logic to try and prove that Ted Cruz who was born in Canada to a Cuban national father was constitutionally eligible to serve at President and Commander in Chief.

When you are too even for the freepers....

[bob]

P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen'”

P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen’”

P&E: A Critique of “On the Meaning of ‘Natural Born Citizen,’” Part III:

CONCLUSION

If only.

[Luke]

Bob!

Posted about this in the P&E topic as well. I'm extremely disappointed. 'DeMaio" could have squeezed out at least 4-5 more articles on this timely and relevant topic. They are slipping over there.

[keith]

Bob!

Posted about this in the P&E topic as well. I'm extremely disappointed. 'DeMaio" could have squeezed out at least 4-5 more articles turds on this timely and relevant topic. They are slipping over there.

FIFY

(I know, low hanging fruit)

[Reality Check]

I am curious about who this Joseph DeMaio might be. In the old days someone like Loren Collins would have figured him out by now. Loren figured out John Charlton the founder of the P&E was Massachusetts resident John Bugnolo. I never found a good connection between Rondeau and Bugnolo other than Rondeau grew up in Massachusetts and Bugnolo lives there. I believe they are both Catholics too. Bugnolo belongs to some weird conservative Catholic organization where Rondeau would fit very well. It is also a mystery why Bugnolo left the P&E abruptly and gave the keys to Rondeau.

[Foggy]

Speaking of enduring mysteries, I am still curious to learn how Philadelphia resident and attorney Phil Berg managed to employ a lady as his paralegal who 1) lived in New Mexico and AFAIK never set foot in the City of Brotherly Shove, and 2) had just been convicted of ten or so felonies in California for real estate fraud, fewer than six months before she went to work for Phil. Realist actually met her, iirc, but she didn't tell him how she hooked up with Phil.

[Luke]

Foggy! Foggy! Would The Fogow PLEASE donate to this in Sharon Rondeau & the P&E's name? TIA.

New Hybrid PAC looks to help naturalized citizens, Muslim candidates run for federal office
BY FILIP TIMOTIJA - 04/15/24 11:07 PM ET

A newly formed progressive hybrid Political Action Committee (PAC) is looking to support Muslim candidates and naturalized citizens who want to run for federal office.

The group, dubbed “Cavalry PAC,” was filed with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) last Monday.

The group is headed by former Democratic Congressional candidate Kara Eastman and progressive media personality Cenk Uygur. It is set to launch on Tuesday, Eastman told The Hill.

Moar: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... al-office/

[bob]

New Hybrid PAC looks to help naturalized citizens, Muslim candidates run for federal office
BY FILIP TIMOTIJA - 04/15/24 11:07 PM ET

A newly formed progressive hybrid Political Action Committee (PAC) is looking to support Muslim candidates and naturalized citizens who want to run for federal office.

The group, dubbed “Cavalry PAC,” was filed with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) last Monday.

The group is headed by former Democratic Congressional candidate Kara Eastman and progressive media personality Cenk Uygur. It is set to launch on Tuesday, Eastman told The Hill.

So Uygur's grift will live on.