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The dregs of birther remainders.

These people are weird, but we like to find out what weird people are doing and thinking. It's a hobby.
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RTH10260
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#926

Post by RTH10260 »

Now someone only needs to break the piggy bank and purchase a dozen copies at Amazon and it will land on the best seller list in the conspiracy category. :twisted:
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#927

Post by bob »

RTH10260 wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:21 pm Now someone only needs to break the piggy bank and purchase a dozen copies at Amazon and it will land on the best seller list in the conspiracy category.
:fingerwag:

Kerchner is self-publishing and distributing; it ain't on (ob. Soros-backed) Amazon. :fingerwag:
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#928

Post by Luke »

Just like you said a while back Bob, Chuckles must be a barrel of laughs at a party. Thanks for finding those fascinating PDFs. Remember when Rharon made a mistake and published Laity's entire book? Good times.
After almost 15 years in this fight and in my senior years, and as I move forth to publish this book, people still ask me -- why did I do this -- why are you still fighting this battle – why don't you give up? You can read some of the answers I gave Sharon Rondeau, Editor of The Post & Email online newspaper years ago when she interviewed me for an article in her online newspaper. You can read that interview at this link: http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/06/21/ ... -congress/.
If he didn't win, Chuckles has to be one of the first to give himself self-sanctions. So many other birthers have, from filing fees to fines, but Chuckles gets an honorable mention for self-sanctioning himself for 2+ years. But he turned into a QUITTER -- Congress changes every 2 years, so he needed to restart the campaign with each new Congress. Just like Rev Dr Laity Esq is a QUITTER for not sending more letters to every Congress member now that there's a new Congress, and, of course, the REAL REASON the whole Birther cause FAILED -- NOT ENOUGH SHERIFF'S KITS. Mike Volin really let the Birther Movement down and it's shameful. Amazing he can show his face around the P&E.
In May of 2009, I launched a national full-page advertising campaign about the Obama constitutional ineligibility issues in the print media focusing on the Washington Times National Weekly edition which has a national readership and also which every member of the U.S. Congress gets a courtesy copy each week on their desk. Copies of those ads can be seen at http://www.kerchner.com/protectourliberty/archives.htm . I conducted that two-plus year print media ad campaign so the members of Congress and their staff who read that newspaper weekly could never say they did not know about the issue because they don’t read the internet, etc. I also did it so Obama’s constitutional eligibility issues could not be easily scrubbed from history as was being done routinely on the internet in classic Orwellian “1984” down the “memory hole” style. I initially paid for all these print media ads myself.
Still thinking of a get well gift for Foggy -- think a pair of autographed books, Chuckles & Laity, would have a cherished place on his nightstand? :P
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#929

Post by bob »

orlylicious wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:01 pmChuckles has to be one of the first to give himself self-sanctions.
I would also say the most: Kerchner admits he sent money to Berg and Taitz. Kerchner paid his lawsuit(s)' fees. Kerchner paid to send a sheriff's kit to every sheriff and selected other elected officials. And, IIRC, Kercher was the deep pocket behind the birther coins.

To say nothing about the years of those ads.

Kerchner easily self-sanctioned himself five digits over the years. Probably six.

Not bad on an O-5's pension. :whistle:
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#930

Post by bob »

P&E: “Why I Fight”:
Kerchner wrote:As many readers are aware, Kerchner questioned Barack Hussein Obama II’s presidential eligibility as early as 2007 amid credible reports that he was born in Kenya or Indonesia rather than Hawaii, as some reports and Obama himself claimed. Without delving deeply into the Framers’ intent when they included the term in the Constitution, most Americans understand that “natural born Citizen” means, at a minimum, having been born in the United States.

Early in the morning of Obama’s January 20, 2009 inauguration, represented by the late New Jersey-based attorney Mario Apuzzo, Kerchner and several other plaintiffs filed suit challenging Obama to prove he was constitutionally eligible to occupy the Oval Office and command the U.S. military. Not only was Obama’s birthplace a question, but also whether an individual born to a U.S.-citizen mother and foreign-citizen father in the United States or abroad can be considered a “natural born Citizen” as intended by the Framers of the Constitution.

While by 2011, the lawsuit reached the U.S. Supreme Court, that body declined to hear oral argument, leaving the question of Obama’s eligibility unresolved and others similarly situated to seek the office.

Kerchner describes his compilation as “A collection of essays on the ‘natural born Citizen’ term in our U.S. Constitution” and sheds light on “The ‘who, what, when, where, why, and how’ the ‘natural born Citizen’ term was put into our United States Constitution by the founders and framers.”

“Faulty logic and sophistry” on the part of the “modern era progressive movement” has conflated “Citizen at Birth” with “natural born Citizen,” Kerchner further wrote.
"Funny" how Kerchner :yankyank: in the third person. :think:
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#931

Post by Sam the Centipede »

bob wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:53 pm
Kerchner wrote:Without delving deeply into the Framers’ intent when they included the term in the Constitution, most Americans understand that “natural born Citizen” means, at a minimum, having been born in the United States.
Ah yes, "most Americans* understand" has always been the touchstone for assessing the truth and correctness in assertions about law, medicine, physics, ethics, everything.

Except, of course, when the majority disagree with the nutters. When they must be edumacated.

* Other nationalities are available.
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#932

Post by bob »

P&E comment:
Terry Lakin wrote:Thank you for documenting this! This is so needed in times of our own government scrubbing history, altering justia.com,* the wayback machine, destroying documents and other nefarious deeds. The Ministry of Truth would be proud of many of their actions. Your Facts will remain and prevail over ‘their manipulated truth’.
To paraphrase Senator Collins, "It appears Lakin has learned his lesson." :roll:


* For the newbs: Yes, part of the birther lore is the conspiracy to scrub cases from a public website. Cases published in literally thousands of paper books worldwide.

:brickwallsmall:
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#933

Post by realist »

He was so successful in his birther endeavors, in cluding losing millions in retirement and other benefits from his military career. Spending time in Leavenworth.

:brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall:
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#934

Post by bob »

P&E: “The Definition of natural born Citizen'.

Who edits this rag? :roll: Continuing:
Roger L. Sharp wrote:I read your article [about Haley's candidacy announcement] and need to provide some information on the Wong Kim Ark case you refer to.

As I was reading it, I felt your apprehension about the case. Ark is a very strong case FOR NBC. But you, as I read it, left some ambiguity as to whether a person born of two permanent resident aliens was a natural born citizen. Let me suggest this:

1) The only time Ark mentions what a natural born citizen is is when Justice Gray stated, “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country of parents who are citizens.” Nowhere in the case can you find a statement that says, “Anyone born in the United States is a natural born citizen” (para. 134). In fact you can’t find that statement anywhere.

2) In the U.S. District Court Ark v U.S. the Court declared Ark to be a “citizen,” not a natural born citizen. The Supreme Court ruled the same thing. So, Ark’s birth circumstances or anyone with birth circumstances like his are NOT natural born citizens.

3) In the same case Justice Gray restated what Chief Justice Waite had said that puts to rest any claim that the 14th Amendment grants “NBC” to anyone born in the U.S. In invoking the 14th Amendment, he specifically said, “The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens” (paragraphs 3-7 here.) That makes sense, too, because nowhere in the 14th Amendment do you find NBC.

4) In the Elk v Wilkins case, Justice Gray tightens the screws on the 14th Amendment in addressing “under the jurisdiction” and “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely “subject” in some respect or degree to the “jurisdiction” of the United States, but completely subject to its political jurisdiction and owing it direct and immediate allegiance. The words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized.

5) The 14th Amendment may also be moot when it comes to the citizenship clause. The “under the jurisdiction” as Justice Gray states may limit that to being U.S. citizens only. If that is the case, we get citizen parents (those “under the jurisdiction”) giving birth to someone born in the U.S. That is the definition of NBC.

Food for thought and a possible update to your article.

P.S.: I just love it when a person advocates against what a true NBC is and brings up Wong Kim Ark. They have no idea what the case actually declared Ark to be (“citizen”). They have no idea that only the Supreme Court’s standard which must be met to be a natural born citizen is, “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country of parents who are citizens” as quoted in the United States v. Wong Kim Ark case. Then I challenge them to find their claim, “Anyone born in the U.S. is a NBC.” Look in the Constitution, the Supreme Court, Immigration laws or Naturalization laws to find that. I have been asking that for over ten years. Of course no one has ever found it because it doesn’t exist.
I don't recognize Sharp's name.
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#935

Post by realist »

:brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall: :brickwallsmall:
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#936

Post by Luke »

Got a bit jumpy seeing Realist's name as the last message posted but took a deep breath and opened the topic.

Good to see Mooers has moved on after 15 years and isn't bitterly stuck in the past.

Jonathan David Mooers says:
Monday, April 10, 2023 at 10:17 AM

Great clarity herein, Roger.

Also, where did John Jay, the inventor of “natural born Citizen”, ever “hint” or state outright that, (1) “a natural born Citizen can have foreign-citizen parents at time of birth and still be a Constitutionally- eligible presidential candidate/president/ex-president just so long as he was born in the USA” [Obama, et al] ? or (2) a natural born Citizen can be born in a foreign country and still be a Constitutionally-eligible presidential candidate/president/ex-president just so long as one parent is a U.S. citizen at time of birth” [“Canada Cruz”]?

I believe as a natural born Citizen of U.S. citizen-parents who were born in USA, and never divorced, that all legal U.S. citizens today remain living complicit Constitutional-criminals after 08-28-08* until Obama and Kamala are de-certified and punished, possibly by hanging for election-treason.

*

Finally, I believe anyone who insists that born-from-foreign-citizen-allegiance-parents, Obama, Kamala, and Cruz, are each a John Jay “natural born Citizen” 1787- TODAY, and, yet, have never read this book about John Jay, https://walterstahr.com/ , then, those voiced-opinion souls likely have no natural awareness of what the hell they are talking about and likely should be ignored.
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#937

Post by realist »

ahhh finally some new birther qualifications for NBC.

Those U.S. citizen parents now can have never divorced.

Also, too, there is now a John Jay NBC. Not to be confused with a (something) NBC.

Yep, I checked. They’re in the Constitution and many many SCOTUS opinions.
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#938

Post by bob »

Terry Lakin wrote:Thank you for documenting this! This is so needed in times of our own government scrubbing history, altering justia.com,* the wayback machine, destroying documents and other nefarious deeds. The Ministry of Truth would be proud of many of their actions. Your Facts will remain and prevail over ‘their manipulated truth’.
P&E comment:
Kerchner (to Lakin) wrote:[Y]ou describe exactly one key reason I decided to publish this book in paper version of some of my compiled key writings from almost 15 years of fighting this battle living up to my solemn commissioning oath to support and defend our U.S. Constitution against the DOMESTIC ENEMIES who want to abrogate it and the key national security term “natural born Citizen” in Article II of it. I have published them in paper form to make it even harder for the evil doers and down the “memory hole” 1984 novel type scrubbers and erasers on the internet in the high tech control rooms of Google and others from deeply burying my writings even more or make them very hard to find.
:rotflmao: I wish I could memory hole Kerchner out my brain.

But the idea Google, etc., has control rooms monitoring Kerchner, and that a vanity press is the solution, is both :roll: and :yankyank: .

"For completeness":
You also stood up and fought. You did your best in the only way the evil doers allowed to you to bring attention to their subversive actions. Time will reveal that to all eventually. The truth will win out. Bravo Zulu! to you Terry for doing that. And the evil doers “punished”, “cancel cultured”, and “de-platformed” you severely for trying to live up to your oath to support and defend the Constitution.

You are a brave patriot and a hero in my eyes. These evil doers doing what they did to you and our continuing to do to subvert our Constitution and our nation will get their punishment for eternity someday when they meet their maker and are judged for what they have done.
Kerncher is implicitly conceding he'll receive no redemption in this life. :think:
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#939

Post by Foggy »

Yes, but he'll die safe in his belief that God is a white supremacist; that He hated Obama and never wanted him to be president; and that He's going to punish everyone connected with Obama being elected, because God Himself was unable to influence events in 2008. And he's pissed about it. :mad:

It's a weird belief system, but I'm glad it's working out for him. :mrgreen:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#940

Post by bob »

"For completeness," I found these birther-related lawsuits from the 2020 election:

Reade* v. Galvin (D. Mass. No. No. 21-10064):
D. Mass. (citations omitted) wrote:Plaintiff William F. Reade, Jr., has filed a pro se document that he styles as a petition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 4 (misprision of felony); 18 U.S.C. § 2382 (misprision of treason); and 18 U.S.C. § 3 (accessory after the fact). It appears to allege that William F. Galvin, the Massachusetts Secretary of the Commonwealth, has failed to comply with Massachusetts state election law in a variety of respects, principally arising out of the claim that Senator Kamala Harris was not a "natural born" American citizen and therefore should not have been on the ballot, as she is purportedly ineligible to serve as Vice President.

Last year Reade filed with the State Ballot Law Commission a challenge to the inclusion of Senator Harris on the ballot as a Vice Presidential candidate. Reade's objection was dismissed, and he sought judicial review in the Barnstable Superior Court pursuant to Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 30A, § 14. That claim was also dismissed. See Reade v. Galvin, No. 2072-cv-00381 (dismissed Nov. 24, 2020).
Uddin, Ph.D v. Biden (D. Md. No. 22-816):
D. Md. (citations omitted) wrote:Uddin's Complaint alleges that the official White House website incorrectly states that the presidential eligibility requirements are that “the President must be at least 35 years of age, be a natural-born citizen, and must have lived in the United States for at least 14 years.” Uddin asserts that Defendant has violated the Constitution by removing the “second citizen category,” which he contends includes naturalized citizens. According to Uddin, the Fourteenth Amendment made the term “natural-born citizen” obsolete, meaning that any citizen of the United States is eligible to be President, and further claims that any elected President, specifically Defendant, who identifies themselves as a natural-born citizen illegitimately holds the office. Therefore, Uddin asserts that Defendant has violated his constitutional rights and those of all naturalized citizens who cannot run for the Office of the President.
Both dismissed due to lack of jurisdiction.


* Hardcore OG Obots may recall Reade also birfed against Obama.
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#941

Post by bob »

P&E comments:
Jonathan David Mooers wrote:[W]here did John Jay, the inventor of “natural born Citizen” . . . .
Roger Lew Sharp wrote: I have a small correction to your post. John Jay is not the inventor of “natural born citizen”. You will find that distinction belongs to Vattel and his work “The Law of Nations” . . . .
[some jerk*] wrote:Vattel never wrote the words “natural born citizen.”
Which led to:
Kerchner wrote:Why do you act the fool here with your childish misinformation tactics like the one you just made?

As you well know, Vattel wrote his treatise and the defining sentence for natural born citizen in French (the diplomatic language of that time).

[Usual :yankyank: snipped.]
[some jerk*] wrote:Glad we agree Vattel never wrote the words “natural born citizen.”

As for translations, you’ve shown that “indigénes” was translated as “natural-born citizen” by an anonymous translator in 1797.

Which doesn’t show how the Framers might have translated “indigénes” in 1787.

Other contemporaneous translations preferred “indigenous” or similar cognates.

Jonathan David Mooers is correct the first appearance of “natural born citizen” was in Jay’s letter.
Rondeau wrote:This comment contains a false statement in response to the one directly above it and will be the last from this individual in keeping with our posted policy.
BANED AGAIN! :crying:

And Rondeau again shows "false statement" means "something I don't like."


* :whistle:
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#942

Post by realist »

bob wrote:* Hardcore OG Obots may recall Reade also birfed against Obama.
Indeed.
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#943

Post by northland10 »

I think I once suggested to a birther that if they really wanted to make sure their believed definition of NBC was used, they should work to amend the Constitution to specify it, removing any chance for doubt. I don't recall any answer but if there was, it was probably that they didn't need to amend the Constitution because there already was no doubt.

In honesty, they might a bit fearful that the attempt would fail and thus, show how little support they really have. The lack of getting any GOP congresscritters on board may have a reason as well.
101010 :towel:
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#944

Post by realist »

The bestest chance they had to appeal all the way and get their answer was the Ankeny case. It was even suggested to them and why.

As usual, they were all hat and no cattle.

I always thought they were afraid they would have a definitive ruling that the court in Ankeny was correct. Which of course they are.
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#945

Post by bob »

P&E: My Translation of a Key Sentence in Emer de Vattel’s 1758 Treatise on Natural Law in Section 212 -“Des citoyens et naturels”:
Kerchner wrote:Now for the 1760 English translation edition: If we compare that literal in-line word after word translation done online to the translated wording of the key sentence in the 1760 edition, we see the translator/editor used two ambiguous English word synonyms, and switched them around in order, and then subsequently in error, did not use the proper English word for the French word Vattel used, i.e., “naturels”, which is “naturals” or the “natural born” in the context of discussing citizenship and allegiance to one’s country in section 212. Thus, the editor/translator changed the word “natural” to “natives” and used the synonym for “natives”, i.e., “indigenes” in the key sentence in 1760.
:yankyank:

Bonus:
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#946

Post by Reality Check »

As the native French speaking attorney Lupin would say "Charlie, you are full of shit."
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#947

Post by realist »

Reality Check wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:38 pm As the native French speaking attorney Lupin would say "Charlie, you are full of shit."
:yeahthat:
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#948

Post by W. Kevin Vicklund »

Well, let's check the one and only arbiter of the translation between French and English in the 18th century, Abel Boyer. As Reality Check can attest, this is the only source birthers will allow to be cited (but only certain pages). Not even the French Academy may be consulted.

Under the entry for the French word Nature:
  • Les naturels Francois, (ceux qui sont pez en France) the French Natives, the Natives of France
  • Les naturels d'un Pais, the Natives of a Country
Under the entry for the English word Native:
  • Native (natural) Naturel
  • A Native (an inhabitant of the country wherein he was born) Un naturel, un originaire
Of note, while "naturel" is translated to "natural" in many instances, it is always translated to "native" when referring to place of birth or habitation.

https://books.google.com/books?id=nshvf ... ls&f=false
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#949

Post by Suranis »

To Me, the big tell they deep down knew they were full of shit was that they never started a case in Hawaii. With the the Full Faith and credit clause of the Constitution, the other states had to accept the documentation certified by Hawaii. So Hawaii was the one state that they had to challenge the BCs. But... they never actually started a court case in Hawaii.

Orly did a hearing there but she was lying and doing so in the name of a case in another state, saying it was in Discovery (it wasn't) and they needed the original documents.

So the one place where they could have gotten a result was the one place they avoided badgering the courts.
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#950

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Maybe the birthers avoided Hawai'i because they were afraid that their cold bitter hearts might melt in the warm sunshine.
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