14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
- sterngard friegen
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Alito says we've had 3 Presidents who have done unlawful things, not simply Trump. Nixon, Clinton, Trump. (So what?)
If the election comes down to a single state and candidate A gets the majority of the votes and the Legislature doesn't like A and orders electors to vote for B.
Murray dismantles the question's predicate.
If the election comes down to a single state and candidate A gets the majority of the votes and the Legislature doesn't like A and orders electors to vote for B.
Murray dismantles the question's predicate.
Neither disbarred nor disciplined after representing President Barack Obama.
- sterngard friegen
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Alito goes back to "officer" doctrine. If POTUS commits insurrection while still in office, does that give military commanders the right to refuses his orders? If he's disqualified at the moment of insurrection, isn't he no longer a valid POTUS?
Murray replies there still must be a procedure to disqualify POTUS.
Gorsuch piles on.
Murray replies there still must be a procedure to disqualify POTUS.
Gorsuch piles on.
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- sterngard friegen
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Brown Jackson asks about the concern for uniformity and the lack thereof if states can enforce 14/3.
Murray: Congress can provide. In the absence of Federal legislation, questions re disqualification will make their way to this court, with full evidentiary record.
Meh.
9-0.
Murray: Congress can provide. In the absence of Federal legislation, questions re disqualification will make their way to this court, with full evidentiary record.
Meh.
9-0.
Neither disbarred nor disciplined after representing President Barack Obama.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
(Regarding Alito piling it on).
Ouchie.
IMO, Murray's ultimate answer made as much sense as A's question (A's berating aside).
Ouchie.
IMO, Murray's ultimate answer made as much sense as A's question (A's berating aside).
- sterngard friegen
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Sadly, I have to leave for an appointment. You're on your own.
But SCOTUS is going to reverse 9-0.
But SCOTUS is going to reverse 9-0.
Neither disbarred nor disciplined after representing President Barack Obama.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Kavenaugh giving credence to the hyperbolic language of ?a judge? blasting the Colorado five-day trial, saying, basically, "Maybe it's true this is a horrible thing, because why else would they have such a bombastic and horrified langauage?"
#byebyeamerica
#byebyeamerica
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Going on two hours and they're still at it, bringing up all the doubts we've all heard about.
Jackson all worried about the absence of "President" in the list of folks Sec 3 mentions.
I have no idea why they're going on so long. It is so clear that the CO ruling is going to be reversed.
Jackson all worried about the absence of "President" in the list of folks Sec 3 mentions.
I have no idea why they're going on so long. It is so clear that the CO ruling is going to be reversed.
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Thanks you Stern! Very illuminating, appreciate your expertise!
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
They need to figure out what spurious reason they can get away with to say no. It seems to be proving unexpectedly difficult to find a workaround.
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Acyn @Acyn wrote: Mitchell: For insurrection, there has to be an organized effort to overthrow the government
Jackson: So a chaotic effort to overthrow the government is not an insurrection?
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Shannon Stevenson, CO Solicitor General, educating the Justices on how CO elections are run.
She is really good, in that she is well-spoken and knows her field. Much easier than arguing a position, of course; she is primarily explaining how the laws of her state work.
Alito (politely) played his "mayhem will ensue" card again. Stevenson enumerated the institutions in place to handle whatever happens, and suggested that they trust the laws.
Mitchell back up. Nearing the end....
She is really good, in that she is well-spoken and knows her field. Much easier than arguing a position, of course; she is primarily explaining how the laws of her state work.
Alito (politely) played his "mayhem will ensue" card again. Stevenson enumerated the institutions in place to handle whatever happens, and suggested that they trust the laws.
Mitchell back up. Nearing the end....
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
And they're done.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Neal Katyal bitter that the challengers (Murray) left out the big picture argument, that 14/3 is a part of the Constitution that TFG is gutting it. No mention of Construction; no mention of original intent, which is "so clear."
He says the whole argument sounded like parsing the grammar of a sentence--a technical argument.
Making it very easy for the court to rule against CO.
He says the whole argument sounded like parsing the grammar of a sentence--a technical argument.
Making it very easy for the court to rule against CO.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
And MSNBC stops analysis to cover fuckhead spouting a pack of unAmerican lies a M-a-L. Pfff.
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Republican Accountability @AccountableGOP wrote: Trump's lawyer: “It was not an insurrection.”
Trump: “It was an insurrection.”Acyn @Acyn wrote: Trump: I think it was an insurrection caused by Nancy Pelosi.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Unfortunately, SCOTUS can, and occasionally does, agree on the result but not the reasoning. There might be multiple opinions, none that garner a majority, but nonetheless a majority agreeing to reverse SCoCO.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
"Cultural reaction spurs new name, Ka La‘i, for ex-Trump hotel in Waikiki." We weren't happy with his name on the hotel.
You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy.
- sterngard friegen
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14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
[Back now from my appointment.]bob wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:41 pmThere might be multiple opinions, none that garner a majority, but nonetheless a majority agreeing to reverse SCoCO.
" . . . but nonetheless a majority agreeing to reverse . . ." A "majority"? Bob, no. How about all 9 justices agreeing to reverse? Maybe a few on different grounds. The "officer" issue may entice one or two of the libs.
I listened to the remaining argument and Mitchell's rebuttal from my car. Mitchell's rebuttal was excellent. He wasn't trying to please Trump, he was responding to the appellees' lawyers' argument. Unburdened by his lunatic client's demands, he turned out to be a decent lawyer. But by taking Trump's instructions, he was also just a klown.
Neither disbarred nor disciplined after representing President Barack Obama.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Unanimous is a majority.sterngard friegen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:28 pm " . . . but nonetheless a majority agreeing to reverse . . ." A "majority"? Bob, no. How about all 9 justices agreeing to reverse?
The CW is that SCOTUS will reverse. So this issue now is just whether at least five justices agree as to why SCoCO needs to be reversed.Maybe a few on different grounds. The "officer" issue may entice one or two of the libs.
I'm guessing there will be attempts to future-proof the ruling, to deter SoSoME (and the Maine courts) from attempting to work around this decision.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
I don't understand why, if Colorado says he can't run in that state, that has to mean he can't run in all states. Different states have different rules even though it's a national election. And, yes, I have always thought that a national election should have national rules that all states comply with. Felons can't vote in some states; in most states they can. I don't know that that has ever been an issue.
I understand the state's rights argument, but I think that's largely a bullshit argument and has been since at least the Civil War.
I understand the state's rights argument, but I think that's largely a bullshit argument and has been since at least the Civil War.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
In fact, that was the position of the CO Solicitor General.
The pearl clutching from the Justices was audible.
The pearl clutching from the Justices was audible.
14th Amendment Trial - Removing Trump from CO Ballot
Because, and this is complete lunacy, but TECHNICALLY you are not electing a President. You are electing state Electors and THEY vote to elect the President. So its basically 50 elections, not a federal election for a Federal Position.AndyinPA wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:51 pm I don't understand why, if Colorado says he can't run in that state, that has to mean he can't run in all states. Different states have different rules even though it's a national election. And, yes, I have always thought that a national election should have national rules that all states comply with. Felons can't vote in some states; in most states they can. I don't know that that has ever been an issue.
I understand the state's rights argument, but I think that's largely a bullshit argument and has been since at least the Civil War.
This of course has implications for the whole "I was not an officer of the Government" thing.
And no other country in the world does this kind of election, not even other Federal Republics. It was meant to ringfence the Presidency so that no populist strong man would be elected, because in the original system it would have been groups of "wise men" who would act as a buffer and vote away a populist despot as they would all be voting independently. In practice is has enabled the election of a populist lazy Oligarch (W) and an incompetent populist wannabe despot. Both of those the People were wise enough to vote AGAINST.
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