Great Lakes Shipping History

[RTH10260]

Michigan researchers find 1914 shipwrecks in Lake Superior

KATHLEEN FOODY
Wed, April 12, 2023 at 7:26 PM GMT+2

CHICAGO (AP) — Michigan researchers have found the wreckage of two ships that disappeared into Lake Superior in 1914 and hope the discovery will lead them to a third that sank at the same time, killing nearly 30 people aboard the trio of lumber-shipping vessels.

The Great Lakes Shipwreck Historical Society announced the discoveries this month after confirming details with other researchers. Ric Mixter, a board member of the society and a maritime historian, called witnessing the discoveries “a career highlight.”

“It not only solved a chapter in the nation’s darkest day in lumber history, but also showcased a team of historians who have dedicated their lives towards making sure these stories aren’t forgotten,” Mixter said.

The vessels owned by the Edward Hines Lumber Company sank into the ice-cold lake on Nov. 18, 1914, when a storm swept through as they moved lumber from Baraga, Michigan, to Tonawanda, New York. The steamship C.F. Curtis was towing the schooner barges Selden E. Marvin and Annie M. Peterson; all 28 people aboard were killed.

The society's team found the wreck of the Curtis during the summer of 2021 and the Marvin a year later within a few miles of the first discovery. The organization operates a museum in Whitefish Point and regularly runs searches for shipwrecks, aiming to tell “the lost history of all the Great Lakes” with a focus on Lake Superior, said Corey Adkins, the society's content and communications director.

“One of the things that makes us proud when we discover these things is helping piece the puzzle together of what happened to these 28 people,” Adkins said. “It’s been 109 years, but maybe there are still some family members that want to know what happened. We’re able to start answering those questions.”

Both wrecks were discovered about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Grand Marais, Michigan, farther into the lake than the 1914 accounts suggested the ships sank, Adkins said. There was also damage to the Marvin's bow and the Curtis' stern, making researchers wonder whether a collision contributed, he said.

“Those are all questions we want to consider when we go back out this summer,” Adkins said.

Video footage from the Curtis wreckage showed the maintained hull of the steamship, its wheel, anchor, boiler and still shining gauges — all preserved by Lake Superior’s cold waters, along with other artifacts.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-res ... 16365.html

[MN-Skeptic]

Michigan researchers find 1914 shipwrecks in Lake Superior

KATHLEEN FOODY
Wed, April 12, 2023 at 7:26 PM GMT+2

CHICAGO (AP) — Michigan researchers have found the wreckage of two ships that disappeared into Lake Superior in 1914 and hope the discovery will lead them to a third that sank at the same time, killing nearly 30 people aboard the trio of lumber-shipping vessels.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-res ... 16365.html

My first reaction was... that's a lot of shipwrecks.

[Volkonski]

Of the estimated 10,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes region, only about 350 of them are located in Lake Superior. Of those, about 50 wrecks are presumed to be within Minnesota waters. Most of Minnesota's shipwreck history can be found in Lake Superior.

https://www.mnhs.org/splitrock/learn/sh ... 20Superior.

[pipistrelle]

18. Lake Erie has experienced more shipwrecks and sinkings than any other Great Lake. It has recorded more sinkings than the Bermuda Triangle.

https://www.goerie.com/story/lifestyle/columns/2022/06/03/great-lakes-facts-erie-huron-michigan-ontario-superior-shipwrecks-shoreline/65356053007/

[Foggy]

Eerie.

[neonzx]

**insert song, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (Gordon Lightfoot)

[Volkonski]

**insert song, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (Gordon Lightfoot)

[Volkonski]

[AndyinPA]

We attended a lecture on this ship and shipwrecks on the Great Lakes on the Great Lakes cruise last fall. It was fascinating.

I would guess there are so many wrecks on Erie because it's so shallow.

[pipistrelle]

Lake Michigan is considered the deadliest Great Lake - here's why

[Chilidog]

I've been to the museum on Whitefish point. Beutiful location, great museum, nice lighthouse site and an important bird sanctuary all wrapped up in one.

[keith]

Of the estimated 10,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes region, only about 350 of them are located in Lake Superior. Of those, about 50 wrecks are presumed to be within Minnesota waters. Most of Minnesota's shipwreck history can be found in Lake Superior.

https://www.mnhs.org/splitrock/learn/sh ... 20Superior.

So how did they find 1914 wrecks in Lake Superior if there's only 350 of them there?

[keith]

Of the estimated 10,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes region, only about 350 of them are located in Lake Superior. Of those, about 50 wrecks are presumed to be within Minnesota waters. Most of Minnesota's shipwreck history can be found in Lake Superior.

https://www.mnhs.org/splitrock/learn/sh ... 20Superior.

So where is the 'rest' of Minnesota's shipwreck history?

[MN-Skeptic]

Michigan researchers find 1914 shipwrecks in Lake Superior

KATHLEEN FOODY
Wed, April 12, 2023 at 7:26 PM GMT+2

CHICAGO (AP) — Michigan researchers have found the wreckage of two ships that disappeared into Lake Superior in 1914 and hope the discovery will lead them to a third that sank at the same time, killing nearly 30 people aboard the trio of lumber-shipping vessels.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/michigan-res ... 16365.html

My first reaction was... that's a lot of shipwrecks.

Ok folks. Read the headline. Read the first paragraph. My point was that this was a poorly written headline. TWO shipwrecks from the year 1914 were discovered.

Edited - Or maybe you did understand my post and so I apologize for this rant.

[northland10]

We attended a lecture on this ship and shipwrecks on the Great Lakes on the Great Lakes cruise last fall. It was fascinating.

I would guess there are so many wrecks on Erie because it's so shallow.

My understanding is the shallow waters make the waves more intense and break more. I think there were sometimes issues with boats getting too near the shore or a river outlet and scraping the bottom. They would keep going while taking on water.

It is also a matter of traffic. Along you Erie you had Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, and Buffalo. You also had ore ports like Ashtabula and Conneaut where boats would drop MI/WI/MN iron ore for steel plants in Warren, Youngstown, and the Pittsburgh area. Lorain also had heavy steal works along with the shipbuilding.

Lake Michigan had Milwaukee down to Chicago and Northern Indiana, along with lumber ships lumbering up and down but not nearly the concentration of Erie.

[neonzx]

We attended a lecture on this ship and shipwrecks on the Great Lakes on the Great Lakes cruise last fall. It was fascinating.

I would guess there are so many wrecks on Erie because it's so shallow.

My understanding is the shallow waters make the waves more intense and break more. I think there were sometimes issues with boats getting too near the shore or a river outlet and scraping the bottom. They would keep going while taking on water.

Yes, Erie is the shallowest of the Great Lakes. I lived in the Cleveland area for more than 20 years. I had a relative with a boat (sailboat 24ft, nothing big). Storm comes up?, we all returned to the marina and had beers dock side.

[John Thomas8]

This channel has many GL stories:

https://www.youtube.com/@BigOldBoats

[John Thomas8]

Great Lakes liner fails the floating task:

[Sam the Centipede]

Thanks, I watched most of the video. The presenter peddles the line that the SOLAS rules for more lifeboats developed after the Titanic sinking contributed to the Eastland capsizing.

I call that nonsense. As he says, the Eastland was unstable because it had too high a center of gravity, and that was the situation when it was built and was exacerbated by later changes. Yes, adding more lifeboats was one of the later contributing factors to its instability but no, the critical problem was not the extra lifeboats, it was all the other misplaced weight before then.

It's to do with metacentric heights … but probably most people aren't interested, so it's under a spoiler tag.

► Show Spoiler

Why do operators not realize their ships are dangerous? If you don't do the calculations, the problem is not always obvious.

When small commercial fishing boats capsize, the cause is very often additional weight too high up. As a boat changes owners, as market demands change, as operators try to catch more fish without more crew, the boat acquires more and bigger gear, always mounted higher than before. The boat seems fine, but something unusual happens – a net snags, heavy wave on the beam, too tight a turn at speed, perhaps with water on the deck or in tanks reducing stability – and the boat heels a little … then continues to heel until it is on its side.

The static stability of a vessel is usually quantified by its metacentric height: the height of an artificial point called the metacentre above the center of gravity. The metacentric height describes the movement of the center of buoyancy as the vessel heels (tips to the side). The metacentric height needs to be positive, but not very large: too small and when the ship rolls/heels it could become unstable and capsize, too large and the ship will feel "stiff", it will roll uncomfortably fast in waves. So a small positive metacentric height can make a nice ship but that ship is invisibly but dangerously close to having a negative metacentric height. How does the metacentric height become negative? Water sloshing around in tanks or on decks will reduce metacentric height, as will raising the center of gravity by adding weight high up or removing weight (cargo or ballast) low down.

For historical buffs: the theory was independently developed in the 18th century by Leonhard Euler (that Euler, the Swiss mathematician who mainly worked in St Petersburg) and Pierre Bouguer in France. Archimedes did some work on stability, but didn't get to that stage.

[AndyinPA]

I was interested. Thanks.

[RTH10260]

[John Thomas8]

Another year, no answers. Hearts out to the families of the 29.

[pipistrelle]

Watch until the end.

[John Thomas8]

I was fortunate enough to see Gordon play this live back 2018. It still got to him, you could see it that he still cared deeply about those 29 men.

[qbawl]

Watch until the end.

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