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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#126

Post by RTH10260 »

:think: the “speech and debate” - iirc that only applies to speech held on the floor of Congress, not to other activities ?
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

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Post by RVInit »

RTH10260 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:32 pm :think: the “speech and debate” - iirc that only applies to speech held on the floor of Congress, not to other activities ?
Exactly. Didn't Lindsey Graham find out the speech and debate clause doesn't apply to every word you ever say as long as you are elected to Congress? He was forced to testify in Georgia.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#128

Post by Dr. Ken »

RTH10260 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:32 pm :think: the “speech and debate” - iirc that only applies to speech held on the floor of Congress, not to other activities ?
Isn't that the same argument Dick Cheney tried to pull when he was subpoenaed?
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#129

Post by raison de arizona »

Dr. Ken wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:11 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:32 pm :think: the “speech and debate” - iirc that only applies to speech held on the floor of Congress, not to other activities ?
Isn't that the same argument Dick Cheney tried to pull when he was subpoenaed?
Even Cheney didn't go that far. It's just to bollocks things up.
:snippity:
A ‘first time’ argument
Roy Brownell, former counsel to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and author of a prominent paper on vice presidential privilege, said that if Pence ultimately asserts “speech or debate” protections, it will be “the first time it’s ever been clearly expressed that the vice president is claiming his own constitutional privilege.”

Even when Dick Cheney sought to expand the powers of the vice presidency to a historically unprecedented degree — triggering numerous court battles — he never formally invoked the protection, Brownell noted.

Brownell also emphasized that court rulings have found that “speech or debate” protection applies to congressional officials performing “fact-finding” related to their jobs. Pence, he said, could characterize his pre-Jan. 6 conversations with Trump and others as research into how he might rule on matters related to the Electoral College.

It’s still unresolved whether the Jan. 6 session of Congress legally counts as “legislative” business, however. In addition, even if courts deem Pence’s role a legislative one, judges would still have to decide whether the “speech or debate” clause protects him from having to testify about his conversations with Trump world about the bid to upend the election.
:snippity:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/1 ... n-00082637
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#130

Post by humblescribe »

So, Mike:

Were you presiding over the Senate before Jan the six and the counting of ballots? Were you seeking counsel regarding this entire chain of events prior to Jan the six?

I can believe that during the session when the ballots were opened and objections raised that you genuinely would be considered the President of the Senate and be accorded the legislative privilege of speech and debate. But sitting around on your tushie before you gavelled the session in on Jan the six, you are the Vice-President.

To this non-lawyer this is a bunch of hokum.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#131

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humblescribe wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:17 pm :snippity:
To this non-lawyer this is a bunch of hokum.
It is beyond hokum and into bullshit territory. :fingerwag:
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#132

Post by Kriselda Gray »

Wasn't he trying to claim executive privilege? Does that only apply to members of the executive branch? Some of the anchors on MSNBC today were suggesting that he needs to decide if he was a member of the executive branch, eligible for executive privilege or if he's president of the Senate trying to claim speech and debate protection...
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#133

Post by tek »

Pence and his team say that serving as the former president of the Senate essentially makes him a member of the legislative branch and he would therefore be shielded from the subpoena under the “speech and debate” clause of the Constitution they are just making stuff up now.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#134

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Breaking: former WH chief of staff Mark Meadows has been subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating Trump’s role in January 6
Exclusive reporting from
@kaitlancollins

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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#135

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AG and Andy McCabe were just talking on their podcast about the fact there’s been no news about Meadows in a long time. I’m looking forward to the next pod where I hope the news will be bad for Meadows
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#136

Post by p0rtia »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:49 am AG and Andy McCabe were just talking on their podcast about the fact there’s been no news about Meadows in a long time. I’m looking forward to the next pod where I hope the news will be bad for Meadows
Regarding AG & Andy, I found their first few podcasts to be amazing--but I've found my attention wandering in the more recent podcasts. AG spends a lot of time talking about how Garland is not to be criticized (mind you, I'm fine with her opinion on that topic--I just don't want to hear it again and again). I started out hanging on every one of Andy's words about his experiences and opinions, but he seems to have settled into giving standard comments about investigations and legal stuff.

Just wondering if you had similar thoughts?

FYI I haven't listened to this most recent podcast yet.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#137

Post by raison de arizona »

p0rtia wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:12 am FYI I haven't listened to this most recent podcast yet.
Last one I listened to they were talking about "McCabe the Babe" and I get it is just banter and all, but it really turned me off. I dislike these podcasts with the snappy morning show banter.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#138

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Third Trump attorney appears before federal grand jury investigating Mar-a-Lago documents

By Paula Reid, Kaitlan Collins and Tierney Sneed, CNN
Published 5:18 PM EST, Tue February 14, 2023

CNN — Alina Habba, an attorney for former President Donald Trump, appeared last month before a federal grand jury investigating the mishandling of classified documents from his time in the White House, two sources familiar with the investigation told CNN.

Habba is the third Trump lawyer known to have been brought before the DC-based grand jury, which is investigating obstruction in addition to criminal violations of government records laws.

While Habba has not played the prominent role that other Trump attorneys have played in responding to the documents probe, which spilled out in public view with an August FBI search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, she has made notable TV appearances defending Trump and criticizing the federal documents probe.



https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/14/poli ... index.html
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

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Just wondering if you had similar thoughts?
Yeah, but I attribute it to the fact there’s just not a lot to talk about yet and like any yappers they just fill the void with happy talk. The first two episodes were ok, not great, but I don’t really care. I just want to hear what’s happening from them, specifically. They have good insights. I hope Jack himself does not disappoint.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

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Post by Kendra »

Don't have a link at the moment but heard on CNN that former NSA guy Robert O'Brien appears before grand jury. Unclear if it happened today or earlier.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#141

Post by RVInit »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:31 pm
Just wondering if you had similar thoughts?
as
Yeah, but I attribute it to the fact there’s just not a lot to talk about yet and like any yappers they just fill the void with happy talk. The first two episodes were ok, not great, but I don’t really care. I just want to hear what’s happening from them, specifically. They have good insights. I hope Jack himself does not disappoint.
I think exactly the same thing. The first two or three episodes had lots of meat because there was all that information that came from Trump's attempt to use Judge Cannon to stop everything. There are no real leaks coming from the investigation, so now they have to find tangential things to talk about and whatever little may be coming from people who have appeared or are known to have appeared before the various grand juries. I do think the recent episodes are not as interesting as the first ones, but I'm still checking them out.

I doubt that Jack himself will disappoint, McCabe has mentioned multiple times that he errs on the side of going after powerful people as hard as he can, even if he ends up getting an acquittal. In this case I think that is a good thing. I worry more about Garland taking his sweet time to decide whether to agree to go forward until oh shit now we have a Republican president and everything will stop. Garland is a fucking judge, he is NOT a prosecutor and never should have been named AG. Slow and ponderous and making extra sure before upsetting the apple cart is great for a Supreme Court judge, not a prosecutor. :mad:
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I dunno, you guys. McGonigal and two other NY FBIs were arrested, the Wagner group designated a TOC group, the ransomware arrests… he’s not sitting still.

Once again, Republicans have left a godawful mess for the Dem President to clean up and be berated by the press and the Republican Noise machine (and frustrated Dems) every second for not doing more. It’s all part of the plan, as you well know.

The bad guys are really good at what they do.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#143

Post by sugar magnolia »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:37 pm I dunno, you guys. McGonigal and two other NY FBIs were arrested, the Wagner group designated a TOC group, the ransomware arrests… he’s not sitting still.

Once again, Republicans have left a godawful mess for the Dem President to clean up and be berated by the press and the Republican Noise machine (and frustrated Dems) every second for not doing more. It’s all part of the plan, as you well know.

The bad guys are really good at what they do.
I'm sort of thankful that not every single move they make becomes breathless "breaking news" that turns out to be a big nothingburger every time. Just a nice, calm, "here's our latest fuck-you-up action that has already taken place" is cool with me.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#144

Post by p0rtia »

Phoenix520 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:31 pm
Just wondering if you had similar thoughts?
Yeah, but I attribute it to the fact there’s just not a lot to talk about yet and like any yappers they just fill the void with happy talk. The first two episodes were ok, not great, but I don’t really care. I just want to hear what’s happening from them, specifically. They have good insights. I hope Jack himself does not disappoint.
Thanks. That's about where I am. I thought the first two eps were great, because Andy dished inside stuff and his experience of being targeted by TFG.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#145

Post by Kendra »

https://www.azmirror.com/blog/gop-arizo ... -of-trump/
At least three Arizona Republican state legislators have been subpoenaed by the U.S. Justice Department’s special counsel, Jack Smith, as part of the criminal investigation into former President Donald Trump and his efforts to reverse his 2020 election loss.

The federal grand jury subpoenas were issued to Senate President Warren Petersen, Sen. Sonny Borrelli and House Speaker Ben Toma. And at least one former state senator, Michelle Ugenti-Rita, who led the Senate’s Election Committee in 2021, received a subpoena. All four have been ordered to produce records and travel to Washington, D.C., to testify.

The Arizona Mirror obtained a copy of one of the subpoenas on the condition that it would not be published. In addition to the command to testify before the grand jury, the office of the special counsel is demanding any documents already provided to the congressional panel that investigated the Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol riot and any documents given to any other state or federal inquiry related to the 2020 presidential election.

The subpoena also seeks all communications with Trump or his campaign. It also specifies 18 different campaign employees, attorneys and surrogates: Kenneth Chesebro, Justin Clark, Joe DiGenova, John Eastman, Jenna Ellis, Boris Epshteyn, Rudy Giuliani, Bernard Kerik, Bruce Marks, Cleta Mitchell, Matthew Morgan, Kurt Olsen, William Olson, Sidney Powell, Bill Stepien, Victoria Toensing, James Troupis and L. Lin Wood.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#146

Post by Kendra »


NEW: Kushner and Ivanka Trump subpoenaed by Jack Smith in connection with the J6 investigation
@nytmike
and me
Mike Schmidt is on Deadline WH right now discussing story.
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

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Post by RTH10260 »

Trump criminal probe: Special counsel asks judge to compel Mike Pence testimony, report says

PUBLISHED THU, FEB 23 20232:29 PM ESTUPDATED THU, FEB 23 20235:43 PM EST
Kevin Breuninger

KEY POINTS
  • Prosecutors reportedly asked a judge to compel former Vice President Mike Pence to comply with a grand jury subpoena in a criminal probe of ex-President Donald Trump’s bid to overturn his election loss.
    The sealed motion reportedly came after attorneys for Trump asserted executive privilege over Pence’s subpoena in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.
    Special counsel Jack Smith is investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to reverse his defeat by President Joe Biden in 2020.
Federal prosecutors have asked a judge to compel Vice President Mike Pence to comply with a grand jury subpoena for his testimony in a criminal investigation of ex-President Donald Trump for efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss to President Joe Biden, a new report says.

The sealed motion, filed in recent days with Chief Judge Beryl Howell in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., came after attorneys for Trump asserted executive privilege over Pence’s subpoena, CBS News reported Thursday.




https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/23/trump-s ... imony.html
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Federal Judge Hands Over Trump’s Lawyer’s Notes to DOJ

https://www.thedailybeast.com/federal-j ... 20Audience
On her final day as the top judge in the District of Columbia on Friday afternoon—in her final act—Chief Judge Beryl A. Howell did more than grant the Justice Department permission to question former President Donald Trump’s personal attorney. She actually took the rare step of handing over the lawyer’s notes to federal prosecutors, according to a person familiar with the arrangement.

In doing so, Howell may have planted the seeds for a future constitutional challenge. But in the immediate term, she’s handed Justice Department Special Prosecutor Jack Smith a parting gift: what she deemed evidence of a crime involving the former president improperly hoarding classified documents after he left office.

M. Evan Corcoran, a former federal prosecutor, has represented Trump in that classified documents scandal. And while Corcoran already has his hands full as Trump’s lawyer, the probe now appears to have put Corcoran in legal jeopardy himself.

:snippity:

Judges who come to the conclusion that some legally protected and sensitive material must be turned over to an opposing side normally issue an order directing one side to do it, along with a deadline. Doing so gives the losing side the ability to appeal to a higher court—and prevent irreversible damage that could forever taint a case, according to two lawyers not involved in the case who spoke to The Daily Beast but asked not to be identified.

But Howell appears to have skipped that careful yet tedious approach—and just handed Smith a batch of documents that may show Trump and one of his lawyers planning a crime.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#149

Post by Kendra »


SCOOP: Meadows, other top Trump aides ordered to testify in Jan. 6 probe as judge rejects claims of executive privilege story w/
@KFaulders

@jonkarl
Edit: From ABC article linked above.

:snippity:
In a sealed order last week, Judge Beryl Howell rejected Trump's claim of executive privilege for Meadows and a number of others, including Trump's former Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, his former national security adviser Robert O'Brien, former top aide Stephen Miller, and former deputy chief of staff and social media director Dan Scavino, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Former Trump aides Nick Luna and John McEntee, along with former top DHS official Ken Cuccinelli, were also included in the order, the sources said.
:snippity:
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Special Counsel Jack Smith: Judgement Day (one way or the other)

#150

Post by Dr. Ken »

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