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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#126

Post by SuzieC »

Frater I*I wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:58 pm
Kendra wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:15 pm Yeah, now if Hershel could get his a** kicked tonight, I'd call that a near perfect day.
From your lips to Cthulhu's ears... :pray:
So excited!!
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#127

Post by Kendra »

humblescribe wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:20 pm
Kendra wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:06 pm https:// twitter.com/Acyn/status/1600235052280995845?cxt=HHwWioCzhafTlrUsAAAA
Um, no, Faux News.

The organizations were not convicted on real estate valuation issues. They were convicted on payroll tax issues and concealing compensation from the taxing authorities.

Geez, do a little research--just five minutes--before you publish and announce your bullshit.
Thanks for that comment, I hadn't had a chance to listen yet. Just surprised they covered it at all.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#128

Post by Dr. Ken »

Waaaaaaaaaaah
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#129

Post by pipistrelle »

“to plea”?
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#130

Post by humblescribe »

First off, I wonder if the State of New York will refer this matter to the IRS for collection of payroll and income taxes that escaped assessment.

Second, and I cannot stress this enough, probably every scrupulous tax preparer out there who has many businesses that he/she is responsible for makes a good-faith effort to report income. Many owners of smallish businesses will claim 100% of the company car as a business expense even though he commutes to work in the car and does not keep accurate and contemporaneous business records. (Commuting is not a business expense.) Meals and entertainment are also areas that lend themselves for manipulation.

We ought to spend a little extra time in pouring over the general ledger in accounts that can be subject to personal abuse. Many times in the past I have insisted on reporting the personal usage of the company car or other items on the owner's tax return as other income. I generate a formula, and add this amount based upon the per-mile expense that the IRS determines every year. My experience with run-of-the-mill auditors and examiners is that if you make a good-faith effort to report this stuff, they are satisfied. They'll pass on perhaps the extra SS tax as it is too insignificant to crank out all the paperwork for $253 plus penalties and interest.

I am curious as to where Weisselburg buried all those expenses for rent and tuition, among other things. Part of my work is to tie out the W-3 (summary of all the W-2s) to the deduction for salaries and wages and also to payroll tax expense. If he were clever, he would not have booked those expenses to salaries and wages.

Granted, companies the size of Trumps have a lot of big ticket items flowing through their books. Moreover, with dozens and dozens of smaller entities scattered about, he could have carved up a $70,000 tuition payment into ten $7,000 checks paid from sundry golf courses and other businesses. I doubt that anyone would find those.

But knowing what I know about the general larceny of tfg, I would probably have selected at random two or three entities each year and scoured those books to see if there were any irregularities.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#131

Post by Kendra »

I know it's just a small time company I work for, and only do payables when there's no one else around to do payables, but the very first rule ever (learned the hard way), is you don't cut a check for over $600 unless you have a W-9. Period. End of story. Period.

I can't recall if it came out in trial, but did those execs pay for the schools, cars, etc. themselves and submit reimbursement? If so, who cut the check? If I was AP, I wouldn't do it unless the #1 guy said pay the damn thing, I don't care what you say. Or did the AP person cut a check directly to the school, rental car company, etc. they should have waved a reg flag and said I can't cut a check unless I have a W-9. Unless, again, the #1 guy said I don't care what you say, pay the damn bill.

Just my $.02.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#132

Post by Flatpoint High »

Dr. Ken wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:48 pm Waaaaaaaaaaah
blame the jahoo. it's his way
castigat ridendo mores.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#133

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Headline for this story from Breitbart -

Trump Organization Convicted of Tax Fraud; Hunter Biden Still Walks Free :lol:

(Link only, I'm not going to quote them.)
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#134

Post by RTH10260 »

Dang - I didn't know that Hunter Biden had a hidden real estate business! He must have been clever, nothing of it was mentioned on his laptop from hell :twisted:
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#135

Post by Dr. Ken »

RTH10260 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:04 pm Dang - I didn't know that Hunter Biden had a hidden real estate business! He must have been clever, nothing of it was mentioned on his laptop from hell :twisted:
Obviously Hunter made Trump commit tax fraud with his penis.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#136

Post by Sam the Centipede »

:confuzzled: "his" is ambiguous … and I don't understand the trick, whoever performed it!

Does it involve Stormy Daniels? :o
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#137

Post by Volkonski »

Delighted about the verdict.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#138

Post by RTH10260 »

Analysis
Tax fraud verdict again exposes illusion of Trump the master businessman
The former president can add tax fraud to his accomplishments after his company was convicted of a 15-year criminal scheme

David Smith in Washington
Tue 6 Dec 2022 22.48 GMT

When sorrows come, Shakespeare observed, they come not single spies, but in battalions. The same goes for former US president Donald Trump’s legal troubles.

The latest trouble for Trump strikes at the heart of his identity as a wealthy businessman who wrote the bestselling book The Art of the Deal. On Tuesday his company was convicted of a 15-year criminal scheme to defraud tax authorities.

“Add tax fraud to the long list of Trump’s accomplishments,” tweeted Adam Schiff, chairman of the House of Representatives’ intelligence committee.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... t-analysis
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#139

Post by Ben-Prime »

Dr. Ken wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:48 pm Waaaaaaaaaaah
Will the underbussing of Allen W include actually firing him? Because it's a Catch-22, right? If they fire him, there's a lot more tea he can spill, but if they don't, there's a limit to how much they can bad-mouth him before someone says "Yanno, if he was that bad, why ain't you fired him?"
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#140

Post by Ben-Prime »

Dr. Ken wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:52 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:04 pm Dang - I didn't know that Hunter Biden had a hidden real estate business! He must have been clever, nothing of it was mentioned on his laptop from hell :twisted:
Obviously Hunter made Trump commit tax fraud with his penis.
Oh, see, I thought the organ in question was actually the one buying the real estate.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#141

Post by BeastofBourbon »

Uh, Ben, I believe the anus is not an organ itself, but a part of the digestive system. But you were referring to an organ on the anterior side. My mistake!
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#142

Post by RTH10260 »

How Trump Org's tax fraud conviction could bar Trump from federal contracts, even for Secret Service

Laura Italiano,Dave Levinthal
Tue, December 6, 2022 at 10:39 PM
  • The Trump Organization was found criminally liable of tax fraud on Tuesday after a six-week trial.
    The conviction could ban Trump from doing business with the federal government.
    A ban could end his 'exorbitant' billing of Secret Service agents who protect him at his resorts.
Donald Trump's real-estate and golf-resort empire was found guilty on Tuesday for tax crimes committed by the company's two top financial executives, a verdict that followed a six-week trial in state court in Manhattan.

The Trump Organization now faces up to $1.6 million in penalities when it's sentenced on January 13. But there's another threatened cost, and it's something government spending watchdogs have been urging for years.

The conviction could prompt the government to bar the Trump Organization from doing business as a federal contractor, including cutting off the spigot of Trump's lucrative — and critics say exorbitant — billing of Secret Service agents who stay at his properties while protecting the former president and his family.

Trump is hardly the ideal government contractor as it is, watchdogs say, after his many brushes with fraud allegations and given federal regulations requiring "an impeccable standard of conduct."




https://www.yahoo.com/news/conviction-t ... 03068.html
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#143

Post by tek »

Spinning up another false narrative, no surprise here.

THIS case was not at all about Weisselberg's tax returns - they were just evidence. Weisselberg's woes are a separate case.
But the rubes are easily confused.

Here's hoping the IRS comes after trump org for all the underpayments, with interest and penalties.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#144

Post by noblepa »

Dr. Ken wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:48 pm Waaaaaaaaaaah
How does he explain the checks that he personally signed?
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#145

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

He didn't sign those checks!!!!! Somebody forged them, or used a signature stamp!!!!!! :rotflmao:
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#146

Post by noblepa »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:03 am He didn't sign those checks!!!!! Somebody forged them, or used a signature stamp!!!!!! :rotflmao:
Doesn't he realize (or care) that saying that he had nothing to do with it is an admission that this business wizard was so easily fooled, that Weisselberg (and probably others) were able to, essentially, take over his company without his knowing it and run it for their own benefit rather than his?

Wouldn't a business genius like him be able to spot fraud going on under his nose?

If this was true, wouldn't TFG have an actionable case against Weisselberg to recover at least some of what this is going to cost the Trump Org. (which is, of course, simply Donald Trump, himself). Even if the checks for the fines that the organization will have to pay are not written on an account owned by TFG personally, it is still money that won't find its way into his pockets.

So, why hasn't he sued Weisselberg? Is he afraid that W hasn't told the FBI everything he knows?
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#147

Post by AndyinPA »

Short answer(s): No.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#148

Post by noblepa »

The penalties to the Trump Organization are relatively minor. One article I read said that the maximum fine is a total of around $1.6M.

Trump's lawyers are appealing, of course, which is their right. One argument they are expected to make is that Weisselberg orchestrated the scheme with no intent to benefit the corporation, just himself and a few cronies.

If the case were to be reversed on appeal, can the IRS and the NY state taxing authorities still use the case as evidence to go after the Trump Organization for the taxes that were not paid on those lavish untaxed fringe benefits? Between this case and the criminal case that Weisselberg plead guilty to, doesn't this pretty unequivocally show that taxable income was significantly underreported?
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#149

Post by jez »

Since this was a criminal case, is there any kind of non-monetary punishment for the company? I have a vague memory of reading something about losing business licensing.
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New York (Manhattan D.A.) v. Trump Organization - criminal case

#150

Post by Maybenaut »

noblepa wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:41 pm

Trump's lawyers are appealing, of course, which is their right. One argument they are expected to make is that Weisselberg orchestrated the scheme with no intent to benefit the corporation, just himself and a few cronies.
That’s the argument they made at trial, but it won’t fly on appeal. When challenging the sufficiency of the evidence, the only way they can win on appeal is if no reasonable jury could have found the appellant guilty. That’s unlikely, based on what has been reported.
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