State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[RTH10260]

He can't come up with a $175 million bond.

BUT... But... but... now that his MTMG has made him a true billionaire the bond companies ought to be ellbowing their way to assist him

[New Turtle]

If he loses the election, this stock is gonna be worthless. That gives him like 1 or 2 months after the cooling off period to get anything for it. Someone could cut a deal now to buy shares from him in 6 months, but I bet it would be for 10-20% what it is worth today.

[Foggy]

If he loses the election ...

He will declare that he won it, and he will run again in 2028. And lose. And declare he won again. Rinse, repeat.

[Suranis]

He said in 2015/16 that he wouldn't owe anything to anyone because he's so rich he'd self-fund his campaign. I'm pretty sure he did not. Am I remembering correctly?

Literally the first thing he did after officially becoming the nominee was demand an $80 Million "loan" from the RNC.

On the other hand he didn't spend much money on advertising, as he knew that most of the networks were carrying his Rallies live. CNN was doing it live and advertisement free. So he didn't need to spend money on advertising.

And right now social media is carrying his Gaffes for free, so he will keep making gaffes as its free advertising.

I have no idea if he is making his stupid comments deliberately. In fact I doubt it for the most part, but he knows that if he does say something stupid his image flashes around the world in minutes. So I'm sure there are a few deliberate gaffes in there.

[Slim Cognito]

Dear Lord, please don’t let that SOB still be roaming this earth in four years.

[RVInit]

Dear Lord, please don’t let that SOB still be roaming this earth in four years.

Would I be pushing it if I asked the same in four months? Four weeks or four days sound even better to me.

[RTH10260]

MTN Michal Popok discusses the Appeal Court determination of required bond. He opines that the court may have found a flaw in Engorons setting of the restitution amount and have adjusted the bond to the expected final ruling.

[Sam the Centipede]

I didn't watch all of the Popok video (thx RTH!) but the story in the first part is that Popok thinks the appeals judges noticed an amount of the penalty that fell outside the statute of limitations which would reduce the corrected penalty to around the amount of the reduced bond, hence that figure. He mentioned an earlier appeals ruling that governed that but I didn't chase down what he referred to – others with better memories than mine might know.

Surely the amount – $175M or $355M or whatever the current big number is – is not A Big Thing. The big thing is that the Trumps' nefarious business activities have been nobbled and hobbled, isn't it? And that the guilty-of-fraud judgement stands. I know it's civil rather than criminal but that distinction is not, imho, mega-important. Not unless Trump can be locked up, which I think ain't gonna happen.

[p0rtia]

I didn't watch all of the Popok video (thx RTH!) but the story in the first part is that Popok thinks the appeals judges noticed an amount of the penalty that fell outside the statute of limitations which would reduce the corrected penalty to around the amount of the reduced bond, hence that figure. He mentioned an earlier appeals ruling that governed that but I didn't chase down what he referred to – others with better memories than mine might know.

Surely the amount – $175M or $355M or whatever the current big number is – is not A Big Thing. The big thing is that the Trumps' nefarious business activities have been nobbled and hobbled, isn't it? And that the guilty-of-fraud judgement stands. I know it's civil rather than criminal but that distinction is not, imho, mega-important. Not unless Trump can be locked up, which I think ain't gonna happen.

Regarding the statute of limitations stuff: Originally, the State wanted to charge crimes ranging back to 2010 or before. In the early stages of the indictment, fuckhead appealed, and the appellate court agreed that anything before 2015/16 or so (can't remember exactly) could not be charged.

(NB1 This is how Ivanka skated: she said she hadn't had anything to do with the company since before that time. NB2 In fact the S of L had technically run out altogether, but the appellate court ruled that it was tolled because 1) fuckhead was out of the state for four years, 2) NY closed its courts during COVID, and 3) fuckhead was pretending to be prez. When you hear fuckhead claiming that the appellate court ruled in his favor, and that AG James and Engoron are ignoring that the court threw out the charges, this is what he is talking about).

ANYHOO, to answer your question, although he/the org were not tried for things that happened before 2015/16, Engoron allowed in evidence of pre 2015/16 misdeeds to support the post 2015/16 misdeeds. So this is what Popak is talking about. BTW, he is not alone in making this observation.

[Sam the Centipede]

Thanks p0rtia, that sounds familiar now you explain it. And the bit about Ivanka skating, very neat.

I like the idea that the limitations clock paused while he was golfing grifting presidenting! There's a delicious irony: "you can't sue me while I'm prez!", "ok, the courts accept that, so that has to pause the limitations", "waaah!! not fair!! corrupt! criminal!! want immunity!!!"

[Rolodex]

And I think - HOPE - that having a monitor prying into all his business is super humiliating to him. I would also not be surprised at all if, in her intimate look at his businesses and bank accounts something else illegal pops up.

[chancery]

https://twitter.com/michellelprice/stat ... 149081476

Anthony Michael Kreis reposted
Michelle L. Price
@michellelprice
NEW YORK (AP) — Court filing says Trump has posted $175 million bond to avert asset seizure while he appeals civil fraud penalty.

I'll find the filing later, dinner first.

[MN-Skeptic]

https://twitter.com/michellelprice/stat ... 149081476

Anthony Michael Kreis reposted
Michelle L. Price
@michellelprice
NEW YORK (AP) — Court filing says Trump has posted $175 million bond to avert asset seizure while he appeals civil fraud penalty.

I'll find the filing later, dinner first.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... l09aJOjw==

[raison de arizona]

https://twitter.com/michellelprice/stat ... 149081476

Anthony Michael Kreis reposted
Michelle L. Price
@michellelprice
NEW YORK (AP) — Court filing says Trump has posted $175 million bond to avert asset seizure while he appeals civil fraud penalty.

I'll find the filing later, dinner first.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... l09aJOjw==

Knight Specialty Insurance Company out of Los Angeles.

[Slim Cognito]

I wonder if he secured that before or after today’s market news.

[chancery]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverso ... d-lawsuit/?

The bond was provided by California-based company Knight Insurance. Trump’s collateral to secure the loans was a combination of cash and investment-grade bonds, according to Don Hankey, the chairman of Knight Insurance.

Hankey told Forbes that his company had initiated the deal, reaching out to Trump just a few days before an appeals court lowered the amount Trump would have to pay while his appeal was heard. “This is what we do at Knight insurance,” said Hankey, who confirmed he had supported Trump’s political campaigns in the past. “I’d never met Donald Trump. I’d never talked to him on the phone. I heard that he needed a loan or a bond, and this is what we do. So, we reached out, and he responded.” The deal, Hankey said, came together in just a few days.

Hankey, a billionaire who presides over an auto-services empire, may never have met Trump, but he was the largest individual owner of Axos Financial, the lender that bailed out Trump by refinancing his mortgages at Trump Tower and his Miami resort in 2022. Axos also previously had done business with the family of Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law.

"Hankey"?

[raison de arizona]

His political giving: https://littlesis.org/person/249734-Don_Rufus_Hankey

(Harry Litman's quals: LATimes Sr Legal Affairs Columnist. Host & exec prod, @talkingfedspod. FCA Lawyer. Teach con law at UCSD& UCLA. Senior Fellow USC. Former US Atty, Dep Assis AG.)
https://x.com/harrylitman/status/177496 ... 99581?s=20

Trump’s guardian angel for the bond is Don Hankey, an 80-year-old multi billionaire from LA who made his fortune with subprime car loans and already holds at least two very large trump loans.

[Rolodex]

Subprime car loans? So this company does deals with high risk folks.

[chancery]

Breaking ...., maybe.

The bond filing posted upthread recites that

Knight Specialty Insurance Company, meeting the requirements to transact business and issue this undertaking in the State of New York

However, a twitter account I've just started following, @File411, which has 29k followers but no background information that I've found, plus "Dave Kingman, Esq. @DaveKingman8," who has 78 followers, have put up posts arguing that Knight Specialty Insurance isn't authorized to write surety policies in New York State.

https://twitter.com/File411/status/1774966179443966250

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 9882562773

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
The bond is not valid. Knight Specialty Ins Co is not authorized to write this bond in NY State.

File411
@File411
See I too went to the NYS DFS and I couldn’t find any filings that allow Knight to operate in the State of New York but I did find a certificate in CA

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
They can write "surplus lines insurance" without authorization. But surety is not a surplus line. I believe it's a delay tactic. They know the bond isn't valid but the AG won't execute without moving to strike the bond first. And Trump gets more time.

File411
@File411
Not even joking
https://myportal.dfs.ny.gov/web/guest-a ... any-search

I tried the search myself on the New York Department of Financial Services site, "knight" in the company name field, and didn't come up with Knight Specialty Insurance Company in LA. But I don't know if this database gives an authoritative answer, or if File411 and Kingman know what they're talking about.

[chancery]

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 0882185625

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
I regret to say this because I know Cliff Robert to be a good guy. But he e-filed that bond. He's gonna be responsible for filing a bond that's not valid. He's gonna bear the brunt of the Court's displeasure.

[raison de arizona]

[chancery]

Oh man, Dave Kingman says that he's been practicing surety bond law in New York State for 30 years.

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 5902059621

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
The bond is not valid. Why does everyone just assume that it is?

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 2419094740

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
I know they don't do surety law for a living but surety bonds are not foreign to the office. The first thing that should have hit them is "who the hell is Knight Specialty Insurance Co"? They're not approved to write surety in the State.

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 2184234153

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
It shouldn't take them very long to realize that the bond isn't valid and that Trump is simply trying to buy more time.

https://twitter.com/frozengoat08/status ... 798319172

Brad Cox
@frozengoat08
They don't seem to come up on the Circular 570. I know that is only for Federal bonds, but still, not being accredited on the Circular tells you something. Surely the State of NY has the same criteria.

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 4745268677

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
Knight Specialty is not T-listed and they are not approved to write surety in New York. This is a screenshot of a search of "Knight" on the NYS DFS website. I've been doing surety in NY for 30 years. I've never heard of them or seen a bond of theirs.

https://twitter.com/DaveKingman8/status ... 5181969808

Dave Kingman, Esq.
@DaveKingman8
The "specialty" in the name is a giveaway that its business includes surplus lines. I bet that's what they'll use as justification, to try to avoid penalties for writing a bond without authorization. It's nothing more than a delay tactic, Trump manipulating the judicial system.

[chancery]

Kingman says that the NYAG will have to move to strike the bond, but there will likely be someone in the First Department clerk's office who knows whether or not Knight Specialty Insurance is allowed to write surety bonds in New York state. I would expect that the clerk's office would bounce the bond sua sponte ... but I didn't practice in this area.

[much ado]

I can see the headlines now: "Trump's bad check bounces!"

This could be fun.

[Sam the Centipede]

I would expect that the clerk's office would bounce the bond sua sponte ... but I didn't practice in this area.

That sounds correct to me: even if the clerks don't bounce it immediately, one would expect them to reply "Dear Trump clowns, thanks for your latest turdogram, but we note that these Knight gobshites are not an approved surety in Noo Yawk or federally so we have not accredited this nonsense as a valid bond and we have referred the matter to the judge. Hizzonner will tell you what's what."*

And Trump and his clowns will respond "Waaaahhh!! Unfair!! Bigly bias!!"

As always, thanks chancery, despite your cautious disclaimers we know how insightful your analysis is.
________
* perhaps with slightly more formal wording?