State of New York vs Trump, et al - the civil fraud case against the Trump Organization

[Frater I*I]

But not sure what is left to gift the Saudis with, Trump already sold out the USA his first time around. So, maybe not?

Journalists who are critical of the regime who need a bone saw treatment....

[tek]

I honestly don't see how there isn't a National Security issue with PAB getting bailed out by the Saudis or the Russians..

[much ado]

He posted something on the bird site about...

Musk is full of shit. He's a shit stirrer. If you believe anything that comes out of his keyboard you are mistaken. Thinking he believes a word of anything he posts there is being mistaken. He will say whatever to get people arguing and angry, because he is sitting snugly and smugly in a place no-one can touch him.

Plus, saying MAGA shit probably gets him more likes, which is the other thing he loves.

Oh, I don't disagree. And I'm not that sure that all of his wealth is kind of illiquid anyway. I guess a lot of it is stock? But it would be hard to sell 1/2 billion $ worth of it. If he has that much.

If he had 1/2 billion dollars in stock, he would have no problem getting a bond. The insurers would readily accept that as collateral; it is liquid. Evidently, he does not have (or at least claims not to have) that much in liquid assets. The insurers will not accept real estate. The court-appointed monitor should know exactly what assets he has.

[SuzieC]

There is, Tek, but none of the MAGA hordes care. They think the richest people in the world SHOULD bail out their Orange Emperor.

[Rolodex]

If he had 1/2 billion dollars in stock, he would have no problem getting a bond. The insurers would readily accept that as collateral; it is liquid. Evidently, he does not have (or at least claims not to have) that much in liquid assets. The insurers will not accept real estate. The court-appointed monitor should know exactly what assets he has.

I was talking about Musk here. I don't think trump has even $1 million in stock (could be wrong but I never have heard of him talking about the stock market). He's just got a mobbed-up real estate house of cards. I reckon we'll see a fire sale or two once the AG gets going. It would be interesting if they found a whole new set of crimes once they start untangling the RE set ups. Oops. LOL

[Dave from down under]

But not sure what is left to gift the Saudis with, Trump already sold out the USA his first time around. So, maybe not?

Journalists who are critical of the regime who need a bone saw treatment....

What’s a dozen nukes worth?

[Suranis]

The Saudis would probably want weapons and US Troops to help with their war to take over Yemen.

[much ado]

If he had 1/2 billion dollars in stock, he would have no problem getting a bond. The insurers would readily accept that as collateral; it is liquid. Evidently, he does not have (or at least claims not to have) that much in liquid assets. The insurers will not accept real estate. The court-appointed monitor should know exactly what assets he has.

I was talking about Musk here. I don't think trump has even $1 million in stock (could be wrong but I never have heard of him talking about the stock market). He's just got a mobbed-up real estate house of cards. I reckon we'll see a fire sale or two once the AG gets going. It would be interesting if they found a whole new set of crimes once they start untangling the RE set ups. Oops. LOL

Sorry, my misunderstanding; I apologize.

Yes, I agree, Musk almost certainly has sufficient liquid assets. But I think, at this point, any prospective source of funding for Trump's bail would want be sure that all other avenues have been exhausted. It would be nice to have Trump in one's back pocket if he were to become President. But, I think there is sufficient doubt that Trump will ever become President again. (So sad!)

[RTH10260]

djt just needs tio hold out until March 22 when there will be a vote on the DWAC - TMTG merger. After which he will have new riches at his disposal. Maybe by then he can promise his Truth Social shares as collateral. Or Laetitia James will put her hands on them as easy asset to sell on the stock exchange to crazied maggats.

[Luke]

Zero Dark Twenty-Nine @herotimeszero

Do you need to lose money?
Do you feel your case is too strong?
Do you want to know what prison is like?

If yes, then Alina Habba is the attorney for you.

You need someone who understands you. And no one understands criminals better than another criminal.

If you can't Call Saul... Better Call Habba.

[Estiveo]

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[AndyinPA]

[noblepa]

djt just needs tio hold out until March 22 when there will be a vote on the DWAC - TMTG merger. After which he will have new riches at his disposal. Maybe by then he can promise his Truth Social shares as collateral. Or Laetitia James will put her hands on them as easy asset to sell on the stock exchange to crazied maggats.

If the sale happens and TFG comes into a windfall, can E. Jean Carroll and Latisha James ask a court to put a freeze on that cash, preventing him from spending it or pledging it as collateral? I'm sure that he can find ways to hide the money.

[chancery]

Carroll's claim under her judgment is fully secured. She no longer has any right to intervene in Trump's financial affairs.

NYS, if it decides to commence judgment enforcement, could put a lien on the proceeds, but only if it can figure out which institution (or chain of institutions) will be disbursing the funds to Trump. And there are, as I understand, lots of things which Trump can do to make the flow of funds hard to trace. Judge Jones's role as Trump's minder might be an obstacle, but he would probably keep her out of the loop and tell her later.

As for whether the court could intervene directly and order Trump to escrow a portion of the proceeds, on pain of contempt, I dunno. For one thing, Judge Engoron might not retain jurisdiction during the appeal. (Maybe, if it's deemed an ancillary issue, but I just don't know.) And it's not the kind of hands-on management that the First Department would want to deal with.

Also, ordinarily, NYS would have to make a detailed factual showing to justify the relief, and that might not be so easy. NYS hasn't taken any asset discovery yet, and the extensive information concerning Trump's finances in the record is no longer current. The fact that Trump has formally represented that he doesn't have the money might help persuade the court to short-circuit the usual procedure, but again, I really don't know anything about contested judgement enforcement proceedings.

[Rolodex]

This is a really good thread from an Arizona lawyer about the judgment. Great explainer in non-legalese.

[Luke]

Tom Ryan is a great guy, we've become friends. His X feed is always interesting about AZ election and legal matters -- he works with AZ's Law. Definitely good follows.

[chancery]

So I've been mulling over the reply papers. At first I was bemused at the fact that Trump actually submitted an affidavit from someone with personal familiarity with the subject matter, instead of the usual whining and confabulating.

But he's still playing Trump ball.

(i) The facts should have been submitted with the moving papers; it's improper to sandbag your opponent by putting them into the reply. If I did this, I'd expect to have my reply papers struck.

(ii) If you say you can't afford to put up the full bond, you have to show what you can afford, with a full disclosure of your cash and equity interests in your real estate. As a corporate lawyer I knew used to say, you need to "open the kimono." They don't even make a gesture towards disclosure.

So it's all baloney.

[RTH10260]

Trump Gets RUDE AWAKENING in Court with UNCLEAN HANDS

MeidasTouch
20 Mar 2024

Trump has UNCLEAN HANDS and that alone should lead the NY appellate court to swiftly DENY HIS REQUEST TO POST NO BOND to avoid the NYAG from selling his assets to collect on the $464 million JUDGMENT. Michael Popok breaks down this powerful LEGAL DOCTRINE and why Trump’s prior bad acts leading to him being GAGGED should also deny him the extraordinary appellate relief he seeks.

[chancery]

Bleah. I jacked up the playback speed and still couldn't make it past the 5 minute mark.

"He who comes into equity must come with clean hands” is one of the ancient enigmatic "maxims of equity," which are policy guides for the court's consideration, but they are by no means rigid predictable rules. Moreover, the court's discretion over the terms on which enforcement of a judgment will be stayed is not a traditional equitable remedy. The decision on the motion for a stay will likely be based on pragmatic considerations, not at all on the record of Trump's disgraceful comments concerning the principal law clerk.

Conduct closely related to the issue at hand, maybe. For instance, if the NYAG could show that Trump surreptitiously squirreled away several hundred million dollars in a secret Swiss bank account and lied about his cash position, an analysis akin to "unclean hands" might play a role, but Trump's miscellaneous shitty conduct, no.

[chancery]

This is a really good thread from an Arizona lawyer about the judgment. Great explainer in non-legalese.

Good thread. What I said in the Carroll thread applies here too: The possibility of executing the judgment on Trump's buildings is useful as a threat, but the NYAG in fact does not want to "be forced to mix it up with lenders and co-owners and Rabbit's Friends and Relations in a foreclosure proceeding."

I do wonder, though, about attaching the rent stream. Much of that cash flow goes to paying debt and to necessary operational costs. If Trump can't pay his mortgage or his maintenance staff, foreclosure by the lenders is a likely consequence, and that's not necessarily helpful for the NYAG's interests.

[Chilidog]

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[johnpcapitalist]

I'm seeing some reports quoting NY AG Letitia James as saying that Trump is lying about his inability to get bonds. She says that he's refusing to permit appraisals for his portfolio because they would come back lower than the valuations that were used to lend him money. In other words, appraisals needed to keep him from losing a big chunk of his portfolio would open him up to further action that would end up costing him even more in fines. A nice Catch-22.

I'm not sure whether this is James trolling Trump as a way of getting him to realize that getting his properties seized on March 25 is the best of a bunch of bad options or whether there is specific evidence she has developed supporting her claim. But it's fun to imagine him squirming in the wake of this statement.

‘False Premise’: Letitia James Disputes Trump’s Inability To Cover $464 Million Bond

New York Attorney General Letitia James on Wednesday challenged former President Donald Trump’s claim he cannot post the $464 million bond a judge has ordered him to pay.

Trump’s attorneys on Monday asserted the former president is unable to post the bond in his appeal of the New York civil fraud judgment against him. James suggested in a court filing that Trump should try to get bonds from multiple entities and that the former president did not prove his inability to cover it.

“Defendants’ argument that obtaining a full bond is purportedly impossible is based on the false premise that they must obtain a single bond from a single surety for the entire judgment amount of $464 million,” James’ filing states.

“Defendants supply no documentary evidence that demonstrates precisely what real property they offered to sureties, on what terms that property was offered, or precisely why the sureties were unwilling to accept the assets,” the filing adds. “As far as the Court can infer, sureties may have refused to accept defendants’ specific holdings as collateral because using Mr. Trump’s real estate will generally need ‘a property appraisal’ … and his holdings are not nearly as valuable as defendants claim.”

[RTH10260]

Will the unwillingness for appraisals not come back to bite him anyhow? Assuming Letitia James would confiscate a property to send it to auction, would she / the state not order an appraisal that would reveal a "correct" value. That this determined best estimate would be a basis for reconsideration of his asset declarations?

ETA. question: how long does a professional and serious appraisal company take to evaluate structures like held by the T clan ?

[Rolodex]

I think a cleaner option might be to seize income streams from these properties, pending outcome of the appeal. His properties are, to my understanding, set up in complicated partnerships, so you're not really seizing real property so much as claiming the partnership (or however he has it set up) ownership. I'm not sure how many properties he owns 100% of (not even 5th Ave T Tower is all his...I think he has just the lower commercial floors). Maybe the golf courses are all his?

Real property is pretty cumbersome and complicated to seize and sell, esp if the ownership is complicated. Then there's the whole issue of liens/loans since I'm sure he's leveraged to the max. And, as mentioned above, there's the whole issue of valuation/appraisal.

Small example: I own a commercial property with someone else. That partner and I set up an LLC which bought and which technically owns the property (it's titled in the LLC's name, the LLC is billed for property tax and expenses are paid by the LLC and the LLC receives the rental income). If someone got a judgment against me, they couldn't just take over that property because *I* don't really own it - there's the LLC to consider; my partner would have to be involved.

[northland10]

... with a full disclosure of your cash and equity interests in your real estate.