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Trump's Classified Docs Theft: Mar-A-Lago, FBI Subpoenas, Searches & Seizures - DOJ, Garland, GOP Madness - Spy Hard

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Trump's Classified Docs Theft: Mar-A-Lago, FBI Subpoenas, Searches & Seizures - DOJ, Garland, GOP Madness - Spy Hard

#3551

Post by bill_g »

neonzx wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:34 am Funny you mention that. I have not received any begs yet today, which is rather odd. Perhaps he didn't pay the light bill.
I'm pleased to say I'm not on that mailing list.
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#3552

Post by chancery »

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:43 am Is liability for these fees stated in the dismissal order? I was concerned liability might disappear when the suit was dismissed.
It's not. I've been worried about that.
chancery wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:02 am
One curious conundrum that might follow from a ruling directing Judge Cannon to dismiss the proceeding for lack of subject matter jurisdiction would be the continuing validity of the orders that required Trump to pay the expenses of the special master proceeding.
"Jurisdiction" can be a slippery concept, and courts use the concept of absence of jurisdiction in a number of different contexts that aren't fully consistent.

One thing that might save the validity of the costs orders is the principle that a court always has jurisdiction to determine whether or not jurisdiction exists, including jurisdiction to make incidental housekeeping orders. And in this situation the potential for jurisdiction existed, if there had been evidence of a callous disregard for Trump's rights.

And both Judge Cannon and Judge Dearie will have incidental jurisdiction to make orders necessary to terminate the special master proceeding, directing disposition of documents, etc.

But unless there's clear precedent to the contrary, a challenge by Trump to his liability for the costs might be non-frivolous.
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#3553

Post by Reality Check »

What are the mechanics of closing the district court case? Does Judge Cannon have to formally issue a dismissal order that would include terminating the Special Master position?
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#3554

Post by chancery »

Reality Check wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:42 am Correct except for Judge Dearie. I believe someone previously pointed out that he was not taking any compensation other than what he normally receives as a retired judge.
He's not retired, he's on senior status, which means he has a reduced case load and the ability to determine the kinds of cases he takes (some senior status judges don't take criminal cases). Senior status doesn't affect his salary.

Trump's lawyers referred to Judge Dearie as a retired judge in their submission proposing him as a special master, a sloppy mistake, and the error has continued to percolate through news sources and other commentary.
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#3555

Post by Foggy »

chancery wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:39 am ... a sloppy mistake ...
In the other Universe, the one I grew up in, the normal Universe ...

You might expect, after paying an attorney three million dollars to represent you, that he and his team would go out of their way to avoid sloppy mistakes.

In that old, long-expired Universe, all the very highly-paid attorneys I knew were kinda picky about sloppy mistakes, actually. Some of them :oopsy: would be very upset to learn they had made a sloppy mistake. But the harder you work to avoid them, the more and more rarely you make any mistakes at all, the worse it is (for normal attorneys) when you learn that, inevitably, you have made one. If you make one sloppy mistake in an entire freakin' year, you will be mortified beyond redemption for weeks. And that's how you know you're really trying. 8-)


But I'm just reminiscing like an old geezer dude. None of this is true today. :daydreaming:

Today you charge a moron $3 million and hand out sloppy mistakes like Johnny Appleseed handed out seeds.
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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Trump's Classified Docs Theft: Mar-A-Lago, FBI Subpoenas, Searches & Seizures - DOJ, Garland, GOP Madness - Spy Hard

#3556

Post by neonzx »

bill_g wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:43 am
neonzx wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:34 am Funny you mention that. I have not received any begs yet today, which is rather odd. Perhaps he didn't pay the light bill.
I'm pleased to say I'm not on that mailing list.
I spoke too soon.
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#3557

Post by jemcanada2 »

neonzx wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:15 pm
bill_g wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:43 am
neonzx wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:34 am Funny you mention that. I have not received any begs yet today, which is rather odd. Perhaps he didn't pay the light bill.
I'm pleased to say I'm not on that mailing list.
I spoke too soon.
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What are you waiting for? He was right! Send money now! :lol: :lol:
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#3558

Post by Reality Check »

chancery wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:39 am
He's not retired, he's on senior status, which means he has a reduced case load and the ability to determine the kinds of cases he takes (some senior status judges don't take criminal cases). Senior status doesn't affect his salary.

Trump's lawyers referred to Judge Dearie as a retired judge in their submission proposing him as a special master, a sloppy mistake, and the error has continued to percolate through news sources and other commentary.
I started to write "senior status" but I was too lazy to look it up. :oopsy: The point is he was not making anything other than his normal salary as a special master.
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#3559

Post by chancery »

Reality Check wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:32 pm I started to write "senior status" but I was too lazy to look it up. :oopsy: The point is he was not making anything other than his normal salary as a special master.
Absolutely correct. I was just being a pedant. :bag:
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#3560

Post by Kendra »


Trump lawyers Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, and Tim Parlatore left the cafeteria and walked up to the area where Chief Judge Beryl Howell has chambers, and were escorted inside. It is not an area open to the public. A coalition of media outlets here has requested access
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#3561

Post by bob »

Reality Check wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:38 am What are the mechanics of closing the district court case? Does Judge Cannon have to formally issue a dismissal order that would include terminating the Special Master position?
Yes.

But, as you noted, it is mechanical. And it'll be terse, e.g., "In light of the 11th Circuit's ruling, this court's previous rulings, including the appointment of a special master, are vacated. This case is dismissed, and the clerk is directed to close this case."
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#3562

Post by Foggy »

Trump lawyers Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, and Tim Parlatore ...
Oh lordy, they done throwed Lindsay Halligan under the bus! :violin: :crying:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#3563

Post by Maybenaut »

chancery wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:26 am
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:43 am Is liability for these fees stated in the dismissal order? I was concerned liability might disappear when the suit was dismissed.
It's not. I've been worried about that.
chancery wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:02 am
One curious conundrum that might follow from a ruling directing Judge Cannon to dismiss the proceeding for lack of subject matter jurisdiction would be the continuing validity of the orders that required Trump to pay the expenses of the special master proceeding.
"Jurisdiction" can be a slippery concept, and courts use the concept of absence of jurisdiction in a number of different contexts that aren't fully consistent.

One thing that might save the validity of the costs orders is the principle that a court always has jurisdiction to determine whether or not jurisdiction exists, including jurisdiction to make incidental housekeeping orders. And in this situation the potential for jurisdiction existed, if there had been evidence of a callous disregard for Trump's rights.

And both Judge Cannon and Judge Dearie will have incidental jurisdiction to make orders necessary to terminate the special master proceeding, directing disposition of documents, etc.

But unless there's clear precedent to the contrary, a challenge by Trump to his liability for the costs might be non-frivolous.
I know this could never happen, but in my fantasy the 11th Circuit would make Judge Cannon pay the costs of her frivolous extension of jurisdiction where it clearly didn’t exist.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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#3564

Post by Slim Cognito »

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#3565

Post by Kendra »

Update from Zoe T.
A CBS cameraperson spotted the Trump lawyers leaving the courthouse. They did not leave the chief judge chambers area via the public hallway where we all have been waiting since they went in. The media coalition lawyer has gotten no response since a letter was sent seeking access
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#3566

Post by Jim »

Trump lawyers Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, and Tim Parlatore ...
Wait,where's the 3-million dollar lawyer...Kise?
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#3567

Post by RTH10260 »

Jim wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:59 pm
Trump lawyers Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, and Tim Parlatore ...
Wait,where's the 3-million dollar lawyer...Kise?
He is in FL sticking together torn up Top Secret papers that he recovered from a toilet :twisted:
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#3568

Post by jemcanada2 »

RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:06 pm
Jim wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:59 pm
Trump lawyers Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, and Tim Parlatore ...
Wait,where's the 3-million dollar lawyer...Kise?
He is in FL sticking together torn up Top Secret papers that he recovered from a toilet :twisted:
And trying to wipe the ketchup smears off of them. ;)
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#3569

Post by Kendra »


Just in: Chief US judge for the District of Columbia Beryl Howell did not hold Trump office in contempt of court today over subpoena noncompliance and told the Trump legal team and DOJ to resolve the dispute themselves, per people familiar — story coming.
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#3570

Post by Greatgrey »

Dismissed

Judge Aileen pulled a Red Card and is outta the game.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .199.0.pdf
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What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
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#3571

Post by Dr. Ken »

Cannon did what she should have done from the outset. Dismissed the case for lack of jurisdiction.
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#3572

Post by Slim Cognito »

Cue the ketchup jokes.
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#3573

Post by noblepa »

Greatgrey wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:01 am Dismissed

Judge Aileen pulled a Red Card and is outta the game.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .199.0.pdf

97B0DF63-1229-41B9-8748-141A3BF7714F.jpeg
That was only slightly more wordy than Bob predicted, and then mostly because Bob didn't include the case identification and other boilerplate.
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#3574

Post by Kendra »

:boxing:


The most important decision of your career makes you a national embarrassment and a subject of ridicule for every first year law student from now until the end of time. Had to be a fun signature. #ETTD
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#3575

Post by northland10 »

Dr. Ken wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:35 am Cannon did what she should have done from the outset. Dismissed the case for lack of jurisdiction.
She got there eventually but she and Trump needed time to 'catch up.'
101010 :towel:
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