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Trump's Classified Docs Theft: Mar-A-Lago, FBI Subpoenas, Searches & Seizures - DOJ, Garland, GOP Madness - Spy Hard

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#3401

Post by bob »

Kriselda Gray wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:09 pm Joyce Vance on Joy Reid's show pointed out that the court has vacated Cannon's order.
That vacation doesn't go into effect until seven days from now.

Expect him to ask for (and receive) a new stay before then.

The new stay won't be for that long, but it'll drag this out, possibly until 2023.

* * *
northland10 wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:36 pm I would think that V On top of her order being vacated the case was remanded with instructions that it be dismissed. IANAL, but I don't see much wiggle room in there.
There's none.

Reversal sounds stronger ("do the opposite of what you did"), while vacate sounds like there was a technical goof, and that a do-over is possible.

But that's often not the case, and the result usually is essentially the same.
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#3402

Post by Gregg »

He'll wait 6 days until about 5 till midnight to ask, to maximize how long he can put it off.

Our grandchildren might see the final order in the case.

An old proverb says "Only the dead have seen the end of war", but even they ain't seen Trump's last appeal.
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#3403

Post by bob »

Gregg wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:57 am He'll wait 6 days until about 5 till midnight to ask, to maximize how long he can put it off.
Eastman tried to pull that trick; it went poorly for him.

"Your lack of planning is not my emergency" often is muttered in courthouses.
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#3404

Post by Sam the Centipede »

In terms of case law going forward, where does Cannon's work product sit?

If jurisdictional defects are fixed in new papers thrown at her bench, doesn't that become an entirely new case?

This non-lawyer can't see how the old case could possibly have been reversed rather than vacated. Why? It's a sort of exclusion principle. Either the case was validly in court so there is a judgement which can be reversed, or it was not validly in court due to lack of jurisdiction so the court has no power to judge so there is nothing to reverse, hence vacation, poof!, nothing left but a lingering odour of corruption.

So I can't see how the vacated case would ever have any weight in establishing precedent, except perhaps in references to bits of it as interesting arguments.

Or is that over-simple?
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#3405

Post by Foggy »

bob wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:58 am Expect him to ask for (and receive) a new stay before then.
Really? I suppose there are two chances:

1. PREB (Petition for Review En Banc), the full 11th Circuit decides to rehear the case and stays the ruling while they assign a new panel and vote again? That seems really, really unlikely. This isn't a close case with a lot of good arguments on both sides. What is Trump going to claim is immediately threatening to him, that he needs this ruling to avoid ANY kind of legal harm?

On one hand, you have the federal cops, and on the other, a damn thief who stole top secret national documents.

Anyway ...

2. The Supremes, by which of course I do not mean the musical group. There he has a better chance, because Thomas is still the justice assigned to the 11th Circuit, yesno? But didn't Thomas already refuse to interfere in this case? And haven't the Supremes learned the lesson that Trump is no longer their boss? They need to take a walk outside the building and look up at the weather vane to see which way the wind is blowing, because you don't issue Supreme Court rulings on behalf of a fucking thief who stole top secret national documents.

So I'm going to say no. No stay. He might try PREB, but won't get a stay, and he will try the Supremes, but he won't get a stay.

OMG, I'm predicting against bob. I'm dead in the water this time, I know it. But who cares, it won't be on my gravestone. :lol:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#3406

Post by Foggy »

Never thought in a million years that I would ever suggest the Supremes see which way the wind is blowing. Jeazess H. Kreist, how things have changed, how it's been going. This Court.

Remember the Burger Court and the Rehnquist Court? Well, we've got the McConnell Court now, and it's corrupt and dysfunctional.

But this is why I make my prediction against bob in a smackdown cage match - if the Supremes - or just Thomas - issue a stay, it's another :blackeye: for the Court. It makes nationable headlines in all the MSM, who can't understand what's important and what isn't about this case. It hurts the Court, which is already a little bit on the ropes.

It automatically gets discussed in the wider community of attorneys in our nation's capital, which there are a metric shitload of lawyers. Thousands and thousands of lawyers wake up in Virginia and Maryland and they all go to work in D.C. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a damned lawyer and getting sued.

And they know that this is a case of the federal law enforcement authorities against a damned thief who stole national secrets. They are not going to be saying good things about the Supremes if they issue a stay.

So maybe Roberts or somebody has a little talk with Thomas, and hope he isn't paying more attention to his evil wife.
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#3407

Post by DrConspiracy »

Mike Dunford has a video analyzing how the 11th Circuit smacked down Judge Cannon.

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#3408

Post by Foggy »

:like:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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#3409

Post by Flatpoint High »

Mike's streams are wonderful in their deconstruction for the fandoms
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#3410

Post by Reality Check »

My memory on this is a bit foggy but when the 11th Circuit issued the order granting the DOJ's request to remove the classified documents from the special master review Judge #LooseCannon issued an order implementing exactly that. I believe the consensus here was that action was unusual and as I recall she did that even before Trump had time to request a hearing en banc or appeal the ruling at SCOTUS, which he eventually did. I wonder what response she will have this time?
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#3411

Post by bob »

Foggy wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:31 am So I'm going to say no. No stay. He might try PREB, but won't get a stay, and he will try the Supremes, but he won't get a stay.
"For the record," I did say a stay-pending-briefing stay. Like, we give you a week to come up with something. Except, due to the holidays, it might be a month.

I say this because there's already an injunction in place. So status quo (for now) is to maintain the injunction.
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#3412

Post by RTH10260 »

Just want to copy over to here what our QuestAuthority mentioned to start with:

The appeals decision is to be Published, eg this makes it a precedent!
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#3413

Post by Gupwalla »

RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:20 pm Just want to copy over to here what our QuestAuthority mentioned to start with:

The appeals decision is to be Published, eg this makes it a precedent!
If he could never quite reach the level of being Presidential, at least he made it to precedental.
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#3414

Post by Kendra »

Can one of you legal guys put this into Dummy language for idiots like me?


Special Counsel Jack Smith asks Judge Cannon to delay upcoming MAL docs litigation deadlines by a week bc the case will disappear on Dec 8 if the 11th Circuit ruling isn't stayed, making it all moot. Trump legal team has been radio silent since yesterday.
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#3415

Post by Volkonski »

Impeach Aileen Cannon Calls Grow as Trump Judge 'Eviscerated' by Court

https://www.newsweek.com/impeach-aileen ... rt-1764116
The judges made the decision in a strongly worded ruling that said that while the search warrant for Trump's home was "extraordinary" it did not give "the judiciary licence to interfere in an ongoing investigation."

Cristian Farias, who has written about law and justice for publications including Vanity Fair and The New York Times, tweeted: "Trump judge Aileen Cannon gets eviscerated here" and quoted from the three judges' ruling.

"The law is clear. We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so," the panel wrote.

Other social media users directed criticism at Cannon and a Change.org petition has been set up calling for the judge to be impeached. It had garnered more than 1,900 signatures when reviewed by Newsweek early on Friday morning.
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#3416

Post by Gupwalla »

Kendra wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:25 pm Can one of you legal guys put this into Dummy language for idiots like me?
I am not a “legal guy” but I have done a lot of work to cure myself of dumbness.

The 11th Circuit ruled yesterday that this entire case should be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. But, that ruling is not immediate - it takes effect when the circuit court issues its mandate to the lower court. That will happen on 12/8 (unless there is a motion for rehearing en banc or an appeal to SCOTUS - either to be accompanied by a stay - prior to then).

In the meantime, there are a few scheduled motions and deadlines in the case in Cannon’s court. The government believes it to be a complete waste of time to be doing work on those motions if the case is just going to be dismissed. So it wants a one-week extension to those deadlines.

If there is a motion for rehearing or an appeal before Thursday, then the government will go back to work on these motions. Otherwise, they don’t intend do work on this case because this case is about to be trash-binned.
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#3417

Post by Reality Check »

My non-legal reading of this motion:
Dear Judge #LooseCannon:

Since the 11th Circuit just ruled to shut down your clown show in a week why don't we all just cool our heels and see if by some miracle the full panel or SCOTUS steps in. That will save everyone from wasting time and money. We asked the other side to join in the motion but they are still in shock from seeing their most favorite judge, i. e. you get shot down.

Respectfully
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#3418

Post by Gupwalla »

RC, of course, is far smarter than me and really just cuts to the chase. Approve and endorse.
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#3419

Post by Jim »

Now, now...the DOJ is trying to be nice and save Trump some money... :rotflmao:
5. If the mandate issues, this Court’s one-week extension of time will conserve
the resources of this Court, the Special Master, and the parties, consistent with Civil Rule 1,
which governs this civil action. F ED. R. C IV. P. 1 (“They [the Federal Rules of Civil
Procedure] should be construed, administered, and employed by the court and the parties to
secure the just, speedy, and inexpensive determination of every action and proceeding.”)
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#3420

Post by Shizzle Popped »

How about a simple...

FOAD, please?
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#3421

Post by bob »

Reality Check wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:42 pm Since the 11th Circuit just ruled to shut down your clown show in a week why don't we all just cool our heels and see if by some miracle the full panel or SCOTUS steps in. That will save everyone from wasting time and money. We asked the other side to join in the motion but they are still in shock from seeing their most favorite judge, i. e. you get shot down.
:yeahthat:

And, specifically, it asks for three pending deadlines to be pushed back a week.

Notably, the special master's report. Which, if a stay is granted and this motion is granted, would now be due the Friday before Christmas. :towel:
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#3423

Post by RTH10260 »

Question: as this is a civil case, does the DOJ have the option of clawing back "reasonable attorney fees" from plaintiff?

Or did the former guy just self punish himself by throwing $$$ millions at his hapless lawyers?
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#3424

Post by Slim Cognito »

Just my usual smart-ass thought process but will we ever know how much trump had to spend on Special Master expenses before all that work is discarded?
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#3425

Post by noblepa »

RTH10260 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:20 pm Just want to copy over to here what our QuestAuthority mentioned to start with:

The appeals decision is to be Published, eg this makes it a precedent!
Unless, of course, the Supremes overrule the 11th. This IANAL doesn't think that will happen.
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