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Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

Trying to make sense of a crazy world, with limited success mostly
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Phoenix520
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#101

Post by Phoenix520 »

I haven’t seen any argument based on “Great, just what we need -MORE people in a world slowly but not all that slowly being made uninhabitable by climate change.” Let’s by all means hasten the process.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#102

Post by AndyinPA »

:explode:

It's not just control; it's about punishment.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#103

Post by RTH10260 »

crossposting
Volkonski wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:53 am
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#104

Post by p0rtia »

AndyinPA wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 3:32 pm :explode:

It's not just control; it's about punishment.
Punishment is a means of control.

Control gives you that addictive, all-corrupting sense of power over others.

It's about the power.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#105

Post by Slim Cognito »

how soon before they start ordering it here?
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#106

Post by raison de arizona »

NEWS: Senate @LeaderMcConnell heavily hinting the @GOP will kill the filibuster in 2025 if Republicans hold Congress and the White House -- in order to ban abortion nationwide.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#107

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But but but states rights!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#108

Post by Ben-Prime »

Phoenix520 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 2:45 am But but but states rights!
Sanctity of Senatorial traditions, too, also.
But the sunshine aye shall light the sky,
As round and round we run;
And the truth shall ever come uppermost,
And justice shall be done.

- Charles Mackay, "Eternal Justice"
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#109

Post by sugar magnolia »

Not a chicken.


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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#110

Post by p0rtia »

raison de arizona wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 1:44 am
NEWS: Senate @LeaderMcConnell heavily hinting the @GOP will kill the filibuster in 2025 if Republicans hold Congress and the White House -- in order to ban abortion nationwide.
That's a win-win for Manchion!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#111

Post by raison de arizona »


Eh.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#112

Post by raison de arizona »

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#113

Post by raison de arizona »

On possible impacts on IVF.
Natalie Crawford, MD @ncrawfordmd wrote: Why are IVF and abortion tightly linked? IVF came into existence in a Roe world (Roe had been around almost 10 years before the first IVF baby). Roe allowed IVF - and maybe you’ve never thought of this.

When we protect reproductive rights we inherently say that embryos are not autonomous and can’t exist independently. This means that we don’t grant embryos rights. This means I am allowed to utilize reproductive technology to help people get pregnant.

Because I can fertilize eggs, freeze embryos, test embryos, and transfer/discard embryos. This is essential for safe, accessible and effective IVF care.

IVF is a tool that allows so many babies to be born.

We use IVF to treat infertility - but also think about fertility preservation, cancer, genetic diseases, need for gestational carriers, egg donation, recurrent miscarriage and more. So many people use IVF to have a child.

The fear is that when Roe is overturned states will then individually decide their stance on this matter / and personhood bills threaten this. If life begins legally at fertilization - then we are limited in the above technology.

And for reference, in the body - fertilization occurs in the fallopian tube, the embryo has to travel to the uterus for the next 5 days, then it implants, then you can get a positive pregnancy test.

Every day we talk to people who have their own personal beliefs about IVF - and we talk about changes we can make to the process for your goals. Everyone feels different. That is ok, we anticipate you have your own needs.

For example, I can limit fertilization and transfer all embryos if you don’t believe in freezing/thawing embryos - but IVF will take longer, cost more, and be less successful. It also starts to become more dangerous.

Similarly - should you be forced to birth all embryos?

Limiting reproductive rights has consequences. And if a personhood bill was introduced to the Supreme Court - and the draft opinion language is upheld, then we as a nation are in trouble.

Roe predated IVF, so the truth is we don’t know what will happen. And if you have frozen embryos, you should be watching closely. But we also need your voice. We need you to share. We need you to vote.
Jonathan Han @JonathanHan4 wrote: Philosophy prof Michael Sandel offers thought experiment in “Against Perfection” - a fire breaks out in a infertility clinic - you only have time to break into one of two rooms to save the occupants - one has a five year old girl, the other a tray of 20 embryos. What do u do?
https://twitter.com/ncrawfordmd/status/ ... 3160312832
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#114

Post by RTH10260 »

The doctor could have written it much shorter: he has to discard embryos so he is a murder suspect so IVF will end.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#115

Post by raison de arizona »

AZ Senate candidate Blake Masters (do I really have to add the R?) comes out against contraception, vowing to only vote for judges that support laws that ban it.
No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen @NoLieWithBTC wrote: NEW: Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters (R) just said if elected he will vote against judges unless they commit to overturning the 1965 Griswold v. Connecticut decision which ended laws that banned contraception. The case helped establish the basic right to privacy.
Pelosi: "Most people always thought that this debate in the Congress was about the termination of a pregnancy. But it wasn't. My Republican colleagues have said to me on occasion, 'we're not for any family planning domestically or globally' ... most people don't know that."
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#116

Post by bill_g »

sugar magnolia wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:04 am Not a chicken.


[img]https: //as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/02/49/87/50/1000_F_249875057_1ud9pgMKPPgNRA9HTqGpIxVlLlCv6bVx.jpg[/img]
Along the same avenue - this is not a cake. But, it is in GOP world.

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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#117

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“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#118

Post by Volkonski »

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“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#119

Post by RTH10260 »

:like:
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#120

Post by Slim Cognito »

If they can terrify women into believing CRT is being taught at their kids' schools, we sure as hell can terrify them they're not only losing access to safe abortion, they're also going to lose birth control pills, IUDs, Plan B pills and condoms.

I say fight fire with fire.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#121

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

https://popular.info/p/pr-giant-advisin ... te-clients
PR giant advising corporate clients to stay silent on abortion rights

Judd Legum

A massive public relations firm, Zeno, is privately advising its high-profile corporate clients to avoid commenting on the draft Supreme Court opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, according to an internal communication obtained by Popular Information.

Zeno is a multinational company with almost $120 million in annual revenue and a roster of blue-chip corporate clients including Coca-Cola, Salesforce, Hershey's, Netflix, and Starbucks. Zeno is also a part of Edelman Holdings, the world's largest public relations conglomerate. According to Zeno CEO Barby Siegel, the firm's mission is to "champion the courageous to achieve something better for humankind."

That mission is not reflected in an email sent to Zeno staff this week by Katie Cwayna, Zeno's Executive Vice President for Media Strategy. Cwayna's message includes "a template email to share with client contacts" regarding the leaked Supreme Court opinion which would end all constitutional protections for abortion rights. The template tells clients that "the media" and others "will look for corporations to take a stand and make their views known." Zeno's advice, however, is to keep quiet:

Do not take a stance you cannot reverse, especially when the decision is not final. This topic is a textbook "50/50" issue. Subjects that divide the country can sometimes be no-win situations for companies because regardless of what they do they will alienate at least 15 to 30 percent of their stakeholders… Do not assume that all of your employees, customers or investors share your view.

(While Cwayna claims overturning Roe is a "50/50" issue, 72% of Americans oppose overturning Roe, according to a January poll by Marquette Law School.)

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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#122

Post by raison de arizona »

:shock:

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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#123

Post by neeneko »

Wow. Making it illegal for judges to declare the law illegal. I almost want it to pass so we could see that play out in court. That it even made it out of comity is mind numbingly shocking.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#124

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Re: Roe vs. Wade, American abortion rights

#125

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“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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