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Russia Invades Ukraine

Reddog
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1551

Post by Reddog »

They don’t know about Cosmoline?
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1552

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1553

Post by Gregg »

Reddog wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:56 pm They don’t know about Cosmoline?
This is straight up corruption. Someone was paid to maintain those rifles, as well as a whole lot of stuff a lot more valuable and they just figured "Russia is never gonna need this stuff" so they pocketed the money.

Everyone thought the Nick Cage movie was fiction...
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1554

Post by Suranis »

Gregg wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:16 pm Everyone thought the Nick Cage movie was fiction...
Lord of War? Fantastic movie. I figured it was pretty close to the truth...
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1555

Post by Gregg »

Suranis wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:20 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:16 pm Everyone thought the Nick Cage movie was fiction...
Lord of War? Fantastic movie. I figured it was pretty close to the truth...
It was fantastic. It was also if not based on real events not unlike things that really happened and as we can see, are still to this day.

I remember a lecture when I was in the Army, some General speaking at Ft Benning said "Russia never throws away anything, they still have tanks left over from WWII (this was mid 1980s) and in total they might have 20,000 tanks. But on any given day, 25,000 won't turn over if you try to start them". Even back then, and even at the height of the cold war, some professionals knew that Russia was hopelessly corrupt to the point of it crippling their military.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1556

Post by Frater I*I »

Gregg wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:38 pm
Lord of War? Fantastic movie. I figured it was pretty close to the truth...
It was fantastic. It was also if not based on real events not unlike things that really happened and as we can see, are still to this day.

I remember a lecture when I was in the Army, some General speaking at Ft Benning said "Russia never throws away anything, they still have tanks left over from WWII (this was mid 1980s) and in total they might have 20,000 tanks. But on any given day, 25,000 won't turn over if you try to start them". Even back then, and even at the height of the cold war, some professionals knew that Russia was hopelessly corrupt to the point of it crippling their military.
I can attest to the fact that the first people to pick up on capitalism after the Soviet fall were their military and intelligence agencies...

I have a Soviet general officer's overcoat and Order of Lenin that I got when visiting Berlin back when I was in the Corps, sold to me by a guy we were told works for the SVR. My fireteam mate Armherst got cool stuff too....


Also... :bag:
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1557

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1558

Post by Chilidog »

Hey, another draftee!!!

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1559

Post by Volkonski »

Not good.

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1560

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1561

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1562

Post by Gregg »

Frater I*I wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:06 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:38 pm
Lord of War? Fantastic movie. I figured it was pretty close to the truth...
It was fantastic. It was also if not based on real events not unlike things that really happened and as we can see, are still to this day.

I remember a lecture when I was in the Army, some General speaking at Ft Benning said "Russia never throws away anything, they still have tanks left over from WWII (this was mid 1980s) and in total they might have 20,000 tanks. But on any given day, 25,000 won't turn over if you try to start them". Even back then, and even at the height of the cold war, some professionals knew that Russia was hopelessly corrupt to the point of it crippling their military.
I can attest to the fact that the first people to pick up on capitalism after the Soviet fall were their military and intelligence agencies...

I have a Soviet general officer's overcoat and Order of Lenin that I got when visiting Berlin back when I was in the Corps, sold to me by a guy we were told works for the SVR. My fireteam mate Armherst got cool stuff too....


Also... :bag:
It was more the Warsaw Pact countries legitimately selling off unneeded stuff but you could get a MIG-23 for about $10,000 in 1995, FOB somewhere East of Berlin. You can still find Soviet area fighters or fighter-trainers for less than what you would pay for a decent Cessna 182 but getting it legal to fly in the US would be expensive. Letting a jet engine sit for 30 years is hard on them, I hear. Apparently they are spread out in Eastern Europe like old junkyards.

The flight school in New Mexico where I went to fly one in 2009 had 3 MIG 23s and at least one MIG-27 which I'm pretty sure was a Russia Only plane never sold to Warsaw Pact countries so there was no "honest" way for one to be at a flight school for old guys with mid life crisis issues in New Mexico.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1563

Post by Gregg »

Volkonski wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:44 pm
I give it a few days until showing up at the border is the new best way to "volunteer" for the Russian Army. Ditto for showing up at an airport for a lfight out of Russia.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1564

Post by Gregg »

Volkonski wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:45 pm Not good.

Who else thought the guy with Nazi symbols on him shooting up a school full of kids was just too convenient for coincidence?
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1565

Post by SuzieC »

Volkonski wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:45 pm Not good.

This is contrary to literally every other report I have seen, both here and elsewhere.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1566

Post by RVInit »

Gregg wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:54 pm :snippity:
Who else thought the guy with Nazi symbols on him shooting up a school full of kids was just too convenient for coincidence?
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1567

Post by MN-Skeptic »

SuzieC wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:59 pm
Volkonski wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:45 pm Not good.

This is contrary to literally every other report I have seen, both here and elsewhere.
That was a very good, evenhanded article. I strongly recommend reading it. It also gives some background into the politics there. I can totally believe that patriotic Russians are fired up by what they are seeing and hearing on Russian TV. I think some enlistees may be surprised when they are dumped at the front with only a gun and no other provisions. Reality can suck.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1568

Post by Suranis »

Courthouse News Service gets a very positive rating from Mediabias Factcheck

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/courthouse-news-service/
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1569

Post by Gregg »

Did you see the guns they're giving some of these people? I saw one picture of an AK that looked like it had been stored for 30 years in a barrel of sea water.

I mean, kids, an AK is the cockroach of rifles, I was not previously aware that you could damage one. If Keith Richards was an assault rifle, he would be an AK-47.

And the thing was rusted through, like the quarter panel of a 72 Vega. (although being an AK-47 I wouldn't bet that it didn't work fine)

More evidence that whoever has been responsible for taking care of the military equipment might have been just stealing the money they were given to do so. It makes me question everything they have up to and including their nuclear weapons. Would the missiles even fire? Are the guidance systems working? I dunno how much maintenance a multi-stage nuclear device needs, the "boom" part afterall has a 42,000 year shelf life, but will the rest of it work? There are very sophisticated electronics involved, and radiation, like the kind a little plutonium kicks off, is not kind to electronics so who knows? They might in fact be nothing more than dirty bombs as likely to fall on St Petersburg as NYC.


eta: I think the story about the silo full of ground water might be in a Tom Clancy novel. Which means it's definitely fiction and probably true, if you know much about Tom Clancy.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1570

Post by Slarti the White »

Gregg wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:04 pm the "boom" part after all has a 42,000 year shelf life,
Not really -- while the fissile material might be basically ageless, the explosives that create the critical mass and the systems that detonate them are high precision equipment that is being bathed in radioactivity. While I wouldn't want to stand on ground zero under a Russian missile, I would be shocked if a significant portion of them actually worked. I doubt Russia has any kind of significant nuclear deterrent at this point after 20 years of Putin's rule over their strategic missile forces (there's gotta be some great opportunities for graft there). The expectation that an army that can't maintain main battle tanks can keep ICBMs and nuclear weapons functioning seems like a stretch to me.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1571

Post by pipistrelle »

Gregg wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:04 pm Did you see the guns they're giving some of these people? I saw one picture of an AK that looked like it had been stored for 30 years in a barrel of sea water.
I saw that. It wouldn't even be any good for conking someone over the head in hand-to-hand.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1572

Post by Slim Cognito »

Someone (here? twitter?) wondered if the Russian soldiers were supposed to use the gun to scratch someone and give them tetanus.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1573

Post by Suranis »

Thing is, even if only 10% of Russian missiles work, that's still a LOT of damage.

Of course you have to wonder what the USA is doing with these expensive Death Boxes if the Russians ones are just firecrackers of rust. And sooner or later someone is going to ask that question.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1574

Post by Gregg »

Suranis wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:15 pm Thing is, even if only 10% of Russian missiles work, that's still a LOT of damage.

Of course you have to wonder what the USA is doing with these expensive Death Boxes if the Russians ones are just firecrackers of rust. And sooner or later someone is going to ask that question.
I believe ours are reasonably well maintained. It would not be easy to just steal the money allocated to pay to maintain them here, as it seems to be in Russia. And the people who are in charge of our missiles and other things that go boom are for the most part motivated professionals with a genuine desire to make sure they work. Quite a bit of the junior people are trying to build skills to transfer to civilian occupations and the more senior people are career military officers and NCOs who I still have every reason to believe are both competent and honest.

Our crooked military contractors are at least stealing from us in ways that don't directly impact our security. They sell us 15 different systems we don't need or 5 times as many of them as we do need, or most often they just charge us $500 for a hammer and stuff like that. I have heard anecdotes of weapons inspection officers show up to verify Soviet era ICBMs as part of treaty compliance who when they opened a silo found a missile sitting in a tube half full of water. I don't know if that's true, but where I'd totally believe that story set in Siberia I absolutely wouldn't if you told me it happened in North Dakota.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1575

Post by keith »

Suranis wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:01 pm Courthouse News Service gets a very positive rating from Mediabias Factcheck

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/courthouse-news-service/
Maybe so, but there are also MANY articles about border posts being jammed with guys scrambling to get out of Russia and beyond the reach of conscription, and protestors actually invading recruitment centres and shooting up the staff.

And it sounds like there are a heck of a lot more Russians trying to get out than Americans trying to get to Canada during Viet Nam and shooting up the recruiting centre seems a bit more serious than marching into the office and singing a few refrains of the Alice's Restaurant Massacre.
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