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Russia Invades Ukraine

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1526

Post by Sam the Centipede »

JohnP's analysis would be enough to sink the Russian army but that doesn't include many other factors that pundits/experts/bigmouths comment on: corruption, lack of handling equipment for logistics (forklifts etc.), reliance on rail transport, lack of trucks, lack of radios, telling troops in the initial push that it was an exercise so they were inadequately prepared, both as soldiers and logistically (food for one day, little fuel), complete failure to understand that Ukraine would learn and change since the relatively straightforward invasions of about ten years ago.

It is interesting to see some of the propaganda .discussion shows taken from Russian tv. Some Putinistas screech angrily about "denazifying" Ukraine without any apparent insight into the fact that their own regime is fascist to the core. The Soviet Union fought against Germany because Germany attacked it, but it was happy to be on the Nazi side at the start. The argument was not about doctrine. Germany changed and rejoined the human race, but the undefeated Soviet Union could continue with its own variant of fascism, which Putin now promotes.

One might wonder why ordinary Russian people believe the horseshit fed to them? With modern access to communications, how can people be so ill-informed? But then one realizes: the USA has much freer communications, including access to international English language media, yet it is plagued with delusional ranting pseudo-patriotic quasi-fascist nutters in rural Republican areas where Trumpism had taken hold.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1527

Post by Suranis »

The Majority of Russians have nothing. "Modern communications" mean jack shit when you barely have a radio.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1528

Post by neeneko »

Sam the Centipede wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:49 am One might wonder why ordinary Russian people believe the horseshit fed to them? With modern access to communications, how can people be so ill-informed? But then one realizes: the USA has much freer communications, including access to international English language media, yet it is plagued with delusional ranting pseudo-patriotic quasi-fascist nutters in rural Republican areas where Trumpism had taken hold.
Well, the horseshit is tailor made for them. Governments tend to be reflections of their culture, and one of the reasons you seem to keep ending up with the same governmental structure in Russia over the centuries is, well, Russian culture and its relative isolation.

Over the years I've worked with a number of Russian born developers and they always seem to have particular attitudes regarding authority and power in the corporate hierarchy. Even pleasant individuals responded oddly to it.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1529

Post by Flatpoint High »

and the young men flee: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fl ... 022-09-21/
GDANSK, Sept 21 (Reuters) - One-way flights out of Russia were selling out fast on Wednesday after President Vladimir Putin ordered the immediate call-up of 300,000 reservists.

Putin's announcement, made in an early-morning television address, raised fears that some men of fighting age would not be allowed to leave Russia. read more

Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said the call-up would be limited to those with experience as professional soldiers, and that students and those who had only served as conscripts would not be called up.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1530

Post by Volkonski »



They are rushin' out of Russia. ;)

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1534

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Volkonski »



Russia not wasting time. Medics seem to be in high demand. Some getting orders when they return home from work to report the next morning leaving their employers in the lurch.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1536

Post by fierceredpanda »

Frater I*I wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:01 pm
W. Kevin Vicklund wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:31 pm In my :duel: circles, we have a saying: You fight what you practice, you practice what you drill. John's excellent post illustrates the various failure modes when you fail to follow that doctrine.
Drills are bloodless battles, so that battles become bloody drills....

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Once the killing starts, it is difficult to draw the line.

Tacitus, Histories

And here we are. Vladimir Vladimirovich is going to throw 300,000 ill-trained, ill-equipped troops into the same disaster that has gutted his best formations, and he's going to rattle the nuclear sabre while he's at it. Brilliant.
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple. The smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1537

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1538

Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1539

Post by Volkonski »



More phoney elections. :mad:
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1540

Post by MN-Skeptic »




Paul Adams
@BBCPaulAdams
A woman in Enerhodar explains how the referendum is being conducted in her mum’s street. "Three soldiers knock on your door, armed with machine guns. One is holding a referendum paper asking if you want to leave Ukraine and join Russia." 1/2
9:23 AM · Sep 23, 2022
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Paul Adams
@BBCPaulAdams
"You have to answer verbally and the soldier marks the answer on the sheet and keeps it." Similar reports from Kherson. Annecdotal, but guns and ballots usually don't sit well together.
9:25 AM · Sep 23, 2022
·Twitter Web App
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1541

Post by Gregg »

That sounds like when the British Navy used to board a ship and ask for volunteers.

"Who wants to join His Majesty's Navy, on the left... who wants to be shot in the head, on the right..."

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1542

Post by Slim Cognito »

The way they're now kidnapping people to serve as cannon fodder soldiers made me thing of the old shanghai trick, get a guy dead drunk and he wakes up the next day at sea. Either he joins the crew or he takes a long walk off a short plank.
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Suranis
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1543

Post by Suranis »

The point of this is probably to have all these places become part of Russia, so Vlad can scream he is defending the motherland and invoke some law or other for more troops due to Russia being invaded.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1544

Post by Gregg »

Suranis wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:25 pm The point of this is probably to have all these places become part of Russia, so Vlad can scream he is defending the motherland and invoke some law or other for more troops due to Russia being invaded.
:yeahthat:


It makes sense, to them at least, to drop a tactical nuke on their own territory, to defend it. They'll say "sure we nuked it, but it's an internal problem so go away".
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1545

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Putin already regards Ukraine as part of Russia, because "Russian" is a flexible concept, in a way that, for example Ireland isn't. Ireland is delineated by its coastline (putting to one side the Northern Ireland partition), it's quite objective. But Russia? Is it the tiny region at the time of the Mongol Empire, the realm of the Tsars, the federated territories post-Sovciet Union or just the Russian province?

I think the Ukraine name actually means "borderlands" or something similar.

Putin yearns for the Russian Empire. It seems to me an echo of the attitude of another fascist, Adolf Hitler, uniting one superior Volk under his overlordship in a Reich.

This irredentism naturally appeals to those who define their own nationality and patriotism by the extent of their dominion over others.

Russian media and politicians continue to promote the trope of "denazification" of Ukraine. Of course Ukraine has had some very bad elements in recent years but the country is less "nazi" than, say, Italy. Whereas Russia was fascist leading into the WW2, happy to work with German fascism until Hitler made the mistake of attacking the Soviet Union. Germany lost WW2 and embarked on a painful path to rejoining the civilized world. The Soviet Union was on the winning side so could continue to be a fascist state.

Others may disagree with my not-well-informed analysis!
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1547

Post by Gregg »

That might be what they're in line for...

but it could be something else entirely!

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1548

Post by Ben-Prime »

Gregg wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:22 pm That might be what they're in line for...

but it could be something else entirely!

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Imagine the CBP guy at the inbound airport. Ten thousand adult Russian males: "Reason for visit?" "McRib."

Come to think of it, 10,000 adult Russian males coming over our border? What do you think the GOP would call that? Oh, right, nevermind, they have the 'proper' skin tone.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Volkonski »

“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#1550

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“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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