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Russia Invades Ukraine

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AndyinPA
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Russia Invades Ukraine

#1

Post by AndyinPA »

I think it's getting a little confusing to have two different threads on the invasion, one for Russia and one for Ukraine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... an-west-do
In the wake of what the Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, described as Russia’s “fully fledged invasion of Ukraine”, the west has to decide how to respond to what France’s Emmanuel Macron has called a turning point in European history.

Yet can the west now offer Ukraine more than a mixture of prayers, sanctions and diplomatic demarches? Throughout this conflict western intelligence has shown it has been able to predict Putin’s next step, but less capable of stopping it. Boris Johnson told the Ukrainian people “we are with you”, but what this western solidarity means in practice is now up for debate.

The 30-nation Nato alliance will stick to its pledge that it will never send forces to protect Ukraine as a non-Nato member. Backbench Tory calls to give Ukraine air support have no support in Nato.

Instead the west will test Russia’s resolve through tough sanctions and by some countries providing arms if there is a resistance.

The coordinated sanctions in Washington, London, Berlin and Brussels being announced on Thursday are billed as massive, but Putin sits on a $600bn (£450bn) war chest and will benefit from oil prices soaring past $100 a barrel. That makes him less dependent on the west to raise capital than five years ago, and such is his dominance of the Russian media that the chances of internal protests pressurising, let alone toppling, the 69-year-old president look minimal. The oligarchs may complain if sanctions are placed on them, but Putin is in too deep to retreat.
"Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#2

Post by bill_g »

Uh yup.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#3

Post by neeneko »

Yeah.. there is probably going to be enough on this topic for the foreseeable future for it to have its own dedicated topic.

Heh... a meeting I was supposed to have this week got postponed till mid march, probably in part due to the invasion. It was to go over priorities with the client, and I imagine they are rethinking what (or maybe the order of) they want us working on.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#4

Post by raison de arizona »

NPR reporter.
Eleanor Beardsley @ElBeardsley wrote: Sun is coming up in Kharkiv. We heard explosions. People are starting to panic. We r heading out. The question is do you stay and get trapped or do you run and face danger on road or bombing…
Canadian UN Ambassador.
Bob Rae @BobRae48 wrote: Canada government official
When Pearl Harbour happened the meetings stopped. C’mon people, stop pretending. War has started.
Scary.
CNN @CNN wrote: CNN's @clarissaward reports from a Kharkiv, Ukraine, subway station where citizens have fled amid explosions https://cnn.it/3t1TpsA
Russian paratroopers in Kiev.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#5

Post by neeneko »

Bob Rae @BobRae48 wrote: Canada government official
When Pearl Harbour happened the meetings stopped. C’mon people, stop pretending. War has started.
Though I wish people would stop treating this like it is a war that NATO can simply enter. Ukraine is not in NATO, and there is no mutual defense treaty to activate. MAD is still in play. Both Russia and the US have invaded multiple countries over the last few decades, but both have avoided the kind of direct conflict that could escalate to war between the two nations. Russia has rolled the dice on the west sticking to this long established policy of not escalating, and the decision to break that is pretty damn non-trivial with potentially horrific consequences for a whole range of responses.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#6

Post by raison de arizona »

:thumbsup: tough Ukrainian woman!
UkraineWorld @ukraine_world wrote: Ukrainian woman confronts Russian soldiers in Henychesk, Kherson region. Asks them why they came to our land and urges to put sunflower seeds in their pockets [so that flowers would grow when they die on the Ukrainian land]
I weep.


Amnesty International @amnesty wrote: Amnesty's Crisis Evidence Lab verified damage to a residential block near Chuhuiv Air Base in #Ukraine, killing a civilian and injuring another. We call on #Russia to take all feasible measures to refrain from indiscriminate attacks, civilians must be protected.
Alexander Lourie @AlexanderLouri4 wrote: Russians bombed a civilian apartment complex in Chuhuiv, near Kharkiv
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#7

Post by raison de arizona »

Reminder: RT is Russian propaganda.
Richard Engel @RichardEngel wrote: Moscow is willing to negotiate terms of surrender with kyiv, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov.
In exchange Ukraine would: a guarantee of neutral status and the promise of no weapons on its territory. Per RT.
Richard Engel is the Chief Foreign Correspondent at @NBCNews.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#8

Post by raison de arizona »

So why would Russia bother to take Chernobyl?
#Chernobyl is the shortest route from Russia to Kyiv. The facility is not the goal.

► Show Spoiler
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#9

Post by raison de arizona »

:eek:
Susan Glasser @sbg1 wrote: CNN now reporting that Belarusian troops joining Russian troops in attacking Ukraine.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#10

Post by raison de arizona »

Lots of misinformation floating around, it's hard to discern what is true, even when it comes from official sources.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent wrote: ⚡️Ukraine's armed forces report they reclaimed the Hostomel airport near Kyiv.
The Kyiv Independent @KyivIndependent wrote: CORRECTION: The report was by Oleksiy Arestovych, an advisor to the president, not by the armed forces.

He has deleted his initial report and said that the fighting is continuing in Hostomel.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#11

Post by raison de arizona »

Unverified, but I have seen multiple tweets from various unrelated sources indicating airstrikes are happening near Kyiv.


Defense reporter with Kyiv Independent, I've been following him today, seems reliable but :shrug:

He has pics of captured Russian soldiers on his timeline.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/finland-says ... 50185.html
Finland says debate on NATO membership 'will change' after Russian invasion
Source: The Hill

Finish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday said Russia's invasion of Ukraine will change the debate around NATO membership within her country.

"Finland is not currently facing an immediate military threat, but it is also now clear that the debate on NATO membership in Finland will change," Marin said, YLE News reported.

Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership, with Marin saying it would require broad support for the country to move forward with an application.

Finland and Sweden, who are both not officially members of NATO, will be at a summit the alliance will host Friday
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#13

Post by neeneko »

raison de arizona wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:13 pm So why would Russia bother to take Chernobyl?
#Chernobyl is the shortest route from Russia to Kyiv. The facility is not the goal.
I would almost prefer it was an actual objective. You really do not want to fight near nuclear plants, and you really really do not want to disrupt their operation/staffing/etc. Having a nuclear plant within your zone of control and NOT caring about it is more alarming than intentionally seizing it, esp since the current staff is, well, Ukrainian, and thus might not want to stick around or otherwise find the occupying force hostile/disruptive.

There are other nuclear plants also in the potential path of invasion, so this is gonna play out at least a few times... which means lots of opportunity for something to go wrong. I am esp concerned since these are troops coming from Belarus, the same ones that were pillaging the country side and selling misc gear for booze money.. not exactly the type of people you want near sensitive equipment that could be scavenge for sellable material.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#16

Post by raison de arizona »

Ya know, same thing.
Matt Gaetz @mattgaetz wrote: Gen. Wesley Clark (ret) on @CNN discussing how the Russians plan to take Kiev:

“Sack the city….force regime change…then tell people to stop fighting….just like we did in Baghdad.”
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#17

Post by Chilidog »

clark is an idiot.

Look at how long weve been stuck in Iraq.

Also, Iraq is 6000 miles from Washington DC.

Ukraine is Russia's front yard.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#18

Post by RVInit »

Have to say I agree with this guy. Except we have a major political party backing the Russians. That's probably a huge "except".

There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by raison de arizona »

Airport may be recaptured.

Full disclosure, I've seen reporting of this airport going back and forth all day, so who knows.
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by Kendra »


The main street in St Petersburg, Russia tonight.

The crowd is chanting "No to War!" "Shame!" & "Ukraine is not our enemy!" #янемолчу

From
@Lemmiwinks_III
:

The people of Russia are bravely voicing opposition, at great risk to themselves. #янемолчу
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#21

Post by raison de arizona »


Natasha Bertrand @NatashaBertrand wrote: A source familiar with tonight’s administration briefings to lawmakers tells CNN that officials believe Russia has been facing greater resistance from Ukrainian forces than anticipated. But officials did not say whether Kyiv would fall—still too early to say how it will play out.
Justin Ling @Justin_Ling wrote: This is the sky above Kyiv.

This does seem to be an intercept by Ukrainian air defences. There is a report of an aircraft downed. Other reports of bombing in Kyiv's administrative district. It's going to be a difficult few hours.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by raison de arizona »

Illia Ponomarenko @IAPonomarenko wrote: 🇺🇦Ukraine’s Defense Ministry: Russia has sustained estimated 800 fatalities in combat
Paul Stetson @PaulStetson13 wrote: Russian opposition to Putin has been beaten down, but remains a voice against Putin.
The Recount @therecount wrote: "I am against this war."

Jailed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny condemned Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as he stood trial in kangaroo court today. He faces 15 more years in prison.

Jason Lyall @jaylyall_red5 wrote: One aspect of the Russian invasion to watch: the morale of Russian soldiers. Reports starting to trickle out about low morale, sporadic desertion, reluctance to press home attacks.
Andrew Blum @alb202 wrote: Any research on how morale of soldiers is impacted by how culturally distinct the enemy is?
Jason Lyall @jaylyall_red5 wrote: Great question. I don't know of much rigorous work. There's some evidence that desertion & defection (as proxies for morale) are higher during civil wars, suggesting that cultural affinities across the sides might lower will to fight. But we need more research
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

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Post by RVInit »

There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality.
--Colin Kaepernick
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#24

Post by raison de arizona »

‘Sleeping with the enemy’ Russian troops try to pick up Ukrainian women on Tinder

From Russia with lust.

Russian soldiers poised to invade Ukraine have bombarded women on the other side of the border with Tinder messages Tuesday, according to the Sun.

Dasha Synelnikova’s app lit up with matches from soldiers named Andrei, Alexander, Gregory, Michail and “Black” some 20 miles away, the report said.

“I actually live in Kyiv but changed my location settings to Kharkiv after a friend told me there were Russian troops all over Tinder,” Synelnikova, a 33-year-old video producer, told the outlet.

Many would-be paramours reportedly flirted with treachery as they gave away their military positions while forces assembled north of Kharkiv prepared for what appeared to be an imminent attack, according to Ukrainian military intelligence officials.

“One muscular guy posed up trying to look sexy in bed posing with his pistol. Another was in full Russian combat gear and others just showed off in tight stripy vests,” Synelnikova told the British paper.
:snippity:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/ukrainian ... on-tinder/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Snake_Island
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine

#25

Post by Uninformed »

Already getting the “sanctions on Russia have never worked” talking heads being interviewed. So, best we get back to business as usual as quickly as possible.

I know it’s not a simple situation and military intervention is a non-starter and although there are more extreme actions that the Russians could take, at what point does the rest of the world agree their behaviour merits the most severe reaction possible?

I think we’ve been here before. Bottom line - Ukraine is expendable.
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