I might be a juror

[LM K]

I had always wanted to be a juror. I got the call for a federal jury after I retired because of fibromyalgia pain and random incidents of acute energy loss. I wanted to serve but felt it unfair to the litigants as I might be "normal" one day and unable to drive the next. Then there are the acute vasovagal/ISB incidents where I look like I'm about to die and an ambulance is needed. I would have handled the Victorian social world well - drama and fainting couches.

Me, too. I have fibro, extreme fatigue, and frequent migraines. I was talking to a friend of mine about feeling guilty for sending in medical excuses each time I've been summoned. Her response, "Would you want you on your own jury?"

Nope!

That relieved my guilt.

My doctor has never blinked an eye when I've requested a medical letter. He understands that my need is sincere.

[mojosapien]

Amen to Tiredretiredlawyer. I was just curious if other states have actions planned against the litany of LLC defendants of which names I am not associated with.

In a general sense. Emailed my boss of my next court date. If I had to do this verbally even over the phone I would prob sound like Peter Tosh.

[mojosapien]

I was empaneled once in senior year in college.

"Juror 35whatever. I observe the fact that you are wearing a jacket of one of our esteemed colleges. What is your major?"
"Political science"
"Are you considering law school?"
"Yes"
"The Court orders you to remain in your seat".

40 years later, the case now in question if I had not mentioned it earlier is SORI vs The Opioids.

6-week trial is 6 jurors and 101.5 (??) alternates. Could be worse...the potential jury list may or may not have been exhausted by now.

I pity the poor commissioner in SOFL vs the Opioids.

[scirreeve]

I've been called 3 times - 1st time I ended up on the jury - 2 days total including jury deliberation time - was a weird case - the defendant was charged with conspiracy to acquire drugs. They didn't charge him with possession cuz the "seller" had no drugs and was just ripping him off. He was convicted 10-2. I was 1 of the 2. Oregon law no longer allows nonunanimous convictions but they did then - kid got hosed. 2nd time I was in voir dire when Judge called a time out and later said that the parties agreed to a settlement (was a civil case). 3rd time I called in and they said no jurors required that week.

[Maybenaut]

Goddam ad infinitum.

If you get selected, mojo, stop reporting it here and elsewhere. If we don't see you for a while we know you are doing your civic duty.

Also, if you get selected, turn off push notifications on your phone!

If you're like me, you don't have to worry about that stuff because the only notification I have enabled is my security cameras at the cabin (I'm mostly interested in seeing the bears and the deer walk by).

[MN-Skeptic]

In Minnesota, you can request to be excused if you are 70 years old or older. I've never been selected, but I filled out that paperwork for my mom when she was selected. She was 90+ years old at the time, living in a nursing home, and dependent on a wheelchair.

[Ben-Prime]

The only two times that I both got called and actually made it as far as a jury booth to be questioned (every other time I arrived and was told I was not needed and could go home):

1. Called in and was seated and asked "Have you or a member of your household ever been party to a medical malpractice suit?" "Yes, sir." "Tell us a little about it." "In 1983, a week before my 13th birthday, my father died due to what a court decided in 1987 was medical malpractice." "Son, you're excused."

2. Called in and was seated and asked "Have your or a member of your household ever been party to a child abuse, elder abuse, or domestic violence case?" Turned to the judge: "Your Honor, I could use some guidance here on the meaning of 'party to'. My mother has appeared in this courtroom as a witness in multiple child abuse cases, since she is an abuse investigator for DCF." "You're excused."

So, yeah. Weird how that goes. I've not yet been called up now that I'm overseas as a diplomatic support staffer, but that's only been the past 3 1/2 years, so I'm sure at some point between now and when I retire in a dozen more years, I may get a notice to serve and have to be like "Well, I'm in South Florida for 4 to 6 weeks every 2 to 3 years. When would be a good time for me to report to a jury room?"

[Mrich]

The first time I was called, I was picked and ended up sequestered for 5 nights. (We made our determinations on a Saturday.) The trial was of our local sheriff; the charges were basically misuse of funds. We found him guilty on all counts.

After that, when I was checking out, the clerk said "you'll never serve on a jury again." When I asked why, she said "Honey, you put a sheriff in jail!" And it's true; the 2 times since I have been chosen, as soon as they heard I was on that jury, I was dismissed. Weird, but I'm not complaining; being sequestered sucks.

[AndyinPA]

Once my husband became an expert witness, he was never chosen as a juror. My mother was turned down once for a criminal case because my grandmother had been assaulted and robbed.

Before I was selected for the jury, I had been asked if I would take the word of a policeman over a defendant. I said no. I was still chosen. The case was about a fleeing criminal who had shot and permanently disabled one policeman and injured another.

[Azastan]

Before I was selected for the jury, I had been asked if I would take the word of a policeman over a defendant. I said no. I was still chosen. The case was about a fleeing criminal who had shot and permanently disabled one policeman and injured another.

If the lawyer is defending the police officer, they can't bounce you for cause, but they can bounce you as one of their 'just because we didn't like that answer' picks. But those dismissals are not unlimited, so they may get stuck with you because they've exhausted their peremptory challenges.

[AndyinPA]

Before I was selected for the jury, I had been asked if I would take the word of a policeman over a defendant. I said no. I was still chosen. The case was about a fleeing criminal who had shot and permanently disabled one policeman and injured another.

If the lawyer is defending the police officer, they can't bounce you for cause, but they can bounce you as one of their 'just because we didn't like that answer' picks. But those dismissals are not unlimited, so they may get stuck with you because they've exhausted their peremptory challenges.

This was clearly trying to get the last few jurors.

[poplove]

I've been summoned for Las Vegas jury duty maybe half a dozen times but only sat around for the day or didn't have to report in person. In 2007 I was seated for a federal medical malpractice (standard of care) trial that lasted about three weeks. They loved me because I was a federal employee, a veteran, worked in a medical library, and had a relative (mom) that had a hysterectomy. The plaintiff was a young lady suing three ob-gyns. One gave her an abortion and two that had treated her for continued abdominal pain which she blamed on the abortion. The third doc gave her a hysterectomy but saved her ovaries in case she still wanted kids by surrogate. We got to see lots of pictures of her innards and listen to experts. The second doc found a little piece of a surgical instrument that was left behind from the young lady's appendectomy when she was 15, although she claimed it was left behind from the abortion. It wasn't, as we had all the instruments that were used in evidence. The third doc was cut loose by the judge about two weeks in because he found the plaintiff didn't have anything to sue him for. (But we didn't know that until after the trial.) Bottom line, we found for the defendants because it was all BS. So she and her sleazy lawyer didn't get the $3,000,000 they wanted. After the trial I looked at the case on PACER and she had sued a whole bunch of other doctors as well but those got dropped along the way. The judge said the case went forward with the three docs because there was possibly some merit to her claims. He also said we the jury got it right. I didn't get the $40 a day because I would have had to give up my higher federal pay during the trial. No double dipping allowed.

Second federal trial was in 2011 for four days. A man had his boat docked on Lake Mead and he and his girlfriend got into a drunken argument. He ended up knocking her overboard and she got her head cut up pretty bad from either the dock or the propellers. Then he ran and hid on another boat until a park ranger K-9 found him. There were two charges, one was did he cause harm to the woman on federal property. We all agreed he did. The second charge was did he do it intentionally. It was hard to determine if it was intentional. Ten of us said yes, two said no and wouldn't budge. I was the foreman because I was the only one who had jury duty before. I didn't want it but whatever. Anyway, the man went to prison for four years. One of those prosecutors, Nadia Ahmed, was also on the Bundy case.

I was summoned for another federal case a few years later but the case was dropped because the FBI had illegally set up a sting in one of the Las Vegas hotels. I think it was about money laundering or some kind of illicit transactions.

Both of the trials were interesting. I had a couple of legitimate excuses I could have used to get myself dismissed but I chose not to use them because I wanted to do my civic duty. A couple of folks at work told me I could get out of it by telling the judge I'm for the death penalty. I was happy to tell them it doesn't work in a civil trial.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Brava, poplove! Citizen extraordinaire.

[mojosapien]

The questionnare is (was) truthfully filled out.

Meanwhile there was an older(??) man on the short bus with a Howard Zinn book in front of him.

He asked me "Can I sit here???"

"As a people, yes, but only as a people".

[mojosapien]

I report on Monday....which on the calendar is Pi Day.
Meanwhile, I have re-established my DOB on my Fogbow profile.
I assure all those involved that, even if my age is 61 I have resisted the temptation to go Jim Carroll on the paper space provided to me for more comments.
However, In learned EAP (Edgar Allan Poe) fashion, I had reported the initials of some remote folks JIC (just in case) the PJ (Presiding Judge) or the IAALs in this case need to contact me to make sure I am not talking to one person in particular.

My request for the Ides has not yet been been approved.

[Foggy]

Be best wear the Ides.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

We expect a full and complete encrypted report after the jury is dismissed.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

The first two times I was called for jury duty, I was in college, without a car, and 5-10 hour drive away. "You're excused." Every time after that, I've not gotten past calling in and being told I'm not needed. The last time, I got the summons the day before I got my current job offer. I delayed my start date by a week so I could be available if needed (had to call every night for a week). I also was moving that week (I had put in to move from a 2-bedroom apartment into a 3-bedroom apartment two buildings down before I got the first interview, so I was committed to the move)

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Bravo, Kevin. You fulfilled your citizen duty well and honorably.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Off Topic

That was a crazy half year. It was the winter that the polar vortex became part of our lexicon; Detroit got over 100" of snow and I was working downtown, living near Ann Arbor. Dr. Vicklund was finishing her dissertation, with a hard deadline and no more extensions. In November, I was made the lead engineer in charge of replacing all the streetlights in the city of Detroit with LED luminaires, as well as converting the voltage system to be compatible with DTE, who was buying out the Public Lighting Department. I was working 12-16 hour days, coming home in blizzards often as not, then editing the dissertation. In bed at 1am, up at 4 am, and back to the office. Dr. Vicklund retook her comprehensive exams (because she had taken so long and switched her focus).

In December, Dr. Vicklund submitted the draft of her dissertation. A week later, our best friends had their first kid, and immediately upon going home an ice storm knocked out power to the entire city for weeks. In February, I got a 20% raise because my efforts cemented the contract (I even did a presentation to Mayor Duggan). Dr. Vicklund defended her dissertation the day after she broke a tooth. We decided to move into a 3-bedroom apartment because the raise let us afford it, but were on a waitlist. I had spent the past year applying for jobs in Lansing, but who knows how long it would take to land one? I had a few interviews, but only one did I feel was a good fit (another, we all agreed the position wasn't a good fit, but they thought I'd be a great addition when the right position opened).

In March, a 3-bedroom opened up for a May move-in, which coincided with the end of my current lease, so we arranged for a three week overlap to let us move in and then clean the old apartment. The very next day, I got called back for a second interview - with the utility that had gotten knocked offline by the ice storm. That night, I got on Zillow and found the house we eventually ended up buying. The second interview got rescheduled four times. Twice I got called on the way in to be told that my interviewer was unavailable. By this time, it was April. Dr. Vicklund finally finished her dissertation (leaving herself some time to submit) and I took the day off to do the final formatting and submitted it for publication while she took painkillers and slept. The next day, Dr. Vicklund was finally able to get the root canal done.

The first Friday of May, I finally had my second interview. It turns out my interviewer was the CEO and he had been called to the carpet by the mayor for the icestorm the previous three times I was supposed to have the interview. Halfway through the interview, he told me I was hired. Then off to commencement for Dr. Vicklund! Monday, I get the jury summons. Tuesday, I get the job offer, which included a 30% raise and a huge benefit package. My then boss left that morning to go out East, so I had to call him to give my three weeks notice. He offered to make me a partner if I stayed! But I needed to get out of Detroit and into a much more stable company. Then it was two weeks of moving into the new apartment, and starting the new job while Dr. Vicklund and her family cleaned and repainted the old apartment that first week (coming home in the evenings to help with cleaning, of course). I ended up staying at our friends who had the baby for a few weeks during the week until I got a small temporary apartment while we looked for a house.

[northland10]

I honestly don’t understand why some people don’t want to serve on a jury. It’s one of the few selfless acts you can do for a stranger.

I’ve never been summoned, but I’d gladly serve if called.

I would be glad to serve and now more since I am not teaching. When I lived up north I was a choir director and musical director, and being called at the wrong time could cause issues with concerts and such (luckily, I never needed to find out).

I have only been called a few times.

1. When I lived up north, you were on a pool for 6 months and you may be called upon for trial. When I was on a pool once, I got called twice but when I called in the night before, I was told not to report. Sort of annoyed I made sub plans and didn't need them (though on one of those days, it ended up being a snow day).

2. I called to report in Cook County which I gladly would have done, but was not sure about the fact that I was moving to Lake County on the weekend before I was to report. I called and explained the situation and did mention this was not an attempt to get out of jury duty but I realized there may be an issue with moving right before reporting. They told me they would excuse me but asked that I send in some sort of documentation after I had it (basically, a copy of the lease or a utility bill) which I did.

3. In my current location, I finally got as far as reporting but all I did was sit in the jury pool room all day and work on my team's Sharepoint site and do church music planning for the next 4 weeks. The saddest part of the experience was that we were not allowed to go to the law library while we were there. It was understandable but to be so close to one during the high part of the birther fun but not able to go was sad.

As for the attorneys here, while IANAL, part of me would not want you on a jury, especially if you were a litigation attorney. I would fear that a trained attorney might be able to influence a jury more than most.

[realist]

As for the attorneys here, while IANAL, part of me would not want you on a jury, especially if you were a litigation attorney. I would fear that a trained attorney might be able to influence a jury more than most.

"Influence" in what way, exactly? And why would (whatever that "influence") be necessarily a bad thing?

[filly]

As for the attorneys here, while IANAL, part of me would not want you on a jury, especially if you were a litigation attorney. I would fear that a trained attorney might be able to influence a jury more than most.

"Influence" in what way, exactly? And why would (whatever that "influence") be necessarily a bad thing?

I was picked for a jury a few decades ago. I was very careful not to share my legal knowledge during deliberations and declined my fellow jurors' request that I serve as the foreperson for that very reason. I was surprised that I was picked for the jury because it involved areas of the law that I frequently litigated. I did guide the jurors in the sense that I made sure they read and followed the jury instructions. It was an interesting experience for me.

As to Maybenaut's question about why people don't want to serve on juries:

1. Generally the courts are not respectful of jurors' time;

2. In Houston, getting downtown is a nightmare during morning rush hour. If you want to make sure you are there at 9, you have to leave by 6 AM, which means you have to be awake even earlier than that. Reverse the process for the commute home;

3. In Houston, parking downtown is another nightmare, especially near the courthouse. The municipal parking isn't a very safe area and the private lots are very expensive. The cost of parking exceeds the daily fee you are paid for service (IIRC we got paid $6/day, maybe it's up to $12 right now). While this was not a big deal for me, many people on my jury were either retired or did not get paid for days they didn't work, and asking people to endure that financial hardship while they perceive their time is being wasted is a big deal. This gets even worse when a trial drags on for weeks.

[Foggy]

Wow, that is fascinating, filly. I was on jury service a few times when I was still practicing, but the minute they found out I was a lawyer they'd bounce me toot sweet. I never did get to serve. And the one time I was called for jury service in Raleigh, they spent an hour on voir dire before the prosecutor finally asked, "Do any of you know what the term 'sovereign citizen' means?"

I was home in time for lunch.

But it means I never have gotten a chance to serve, which I would really appreciate. You're very lucky to have done it, and very wise not to be foreperson and not to try to bully them into a verdict. That's excellent.

[humblescribe]

As for the attorneys here, while IANAL, part of me would not want you on a jury, especially if you were a litigation attorney. I would fear that a trained attorney might be able to influence a jury more than most.

"Influence" in what way, exactly? And why would (whatever that "influence") be necessarily a bad thing?

I was picked for a jury a few decades ago. I was very careful not to share my legal knowledge during deliberations and declined my fellow jurors' request that I serve as the foreperson for that very reason. I was surprised that I was picked for the jury because it involved areas of the law that I frequently litigated. I did guide the jurors in the sense that I made sure they read and followed the jury instructions. It was an interesting experience for me.

As to Maybenaut's question about why people don't want to serve on juries:

1. Generally the courts are not respectful of jurors' time;

2. In Houston, getting downtown is a nightmare during morning rush hour. If you want to make sure you are there at 9, you have to leave by 6 AM, which means you have to be awake even earlier than that. Reverse the process for the commute home;

3. In Houston, parking downtown is another nightmare, especially near the courthouse. The municipal parking isn't a very safe area and the private lots are very expensive. The cost of parking exceeds the daily fee you are paid for service (IIRC we got paid $6/day, maybe it's up to $12 right now). While this was not a big deal for me, many people on my jury were either retired or did not get paid for days they didn't work, and asking people to endure that financial hardship while they perceive their time is being wasted is a big deal. This gets even worse when a trial drags on for weeks.

Number 1 says it all for me. If we jurors are the linchpin for the court system, then counsel and the court need to do their jobs better.

I attended three days of the Bundynista trial. I have also wandered into other trials over the years and sat in the gallery. Much of a trial from my perspective is theater. Lawyers not following the rules. (Objection! Sustained/Overruled/I'll rephrase.) Sidebars (What on earth are they discussing?) Transitory dismissal of the jury in order to debate some fine point. Too often there is no momentum or continuity with witness examination and cross-examination.

Moreover, we members of the public are ignorant of the trial system rules and procedures. Why is that? Why doesn't the legal system teach us the rules and the reasons behind them? I've learned more about the system here on FB than anywhere else.

I share the opinion of others that when verdicts are tossed or a settlement is reached eight days into a trial that somehow this is an insult to us. Nor does it help matters when the key lawyers/prosecutors/law enforcement officials publicly disagree with a jury decision or verdict. Are they calling us stupid or incompetent?

I also think that there is a certain amount of hubris among the lawyers and judges in the court systems. That hubris is evident from their voir dire and courtroom performances. Maybe they should have a little less hubris and a little more empathy for the twelve citizens who are taking time out of their lives in order to provide them with their livelihoods.