The Murdaugh Murders (podcast)

[pjhimself]

. I can reconstruct the events with no lapses, e.g. almost 53 years ago I had a compound fracture right tibia. The only moment I don’t remember of that whole day is when I was under anesthesia for several hours. I don’t have a particularly good memory, the mundane things, “did I lock the car” etc. yeah I don’t seem to remember.

To your anesthesia point, The thing I haven’t seen much of is how 20 years of opioids might have influenced his behavior over those years.
We’ve heard about the thievery, lying and paranoia but could those drugs (estimated at $50K/week at one point) also bring on a murderous tendency or other bizarre behaviors ?

Will we hear from any experts on this ? Seems like things are wrapping up so maybe not.

And oh by the way, is anyone still searching for the guns and the bloody clothes; and/or whether he was selling some of that $50k worth of drugs he couldn’t have ingested and stay alive (some say) ?

[RVInit]

Hey Reddog. IANAL either, but I've watched some of the more well known case trials. It's not very often that the defendant testifies, normally you only see it in cases where they are claiming self defense.

It seemed to me that Murdaughs lawyers advised him against it. On Thursday morning, the judge had the talk where he told him his 5th amendment right and that he can seek the advice of his attorneys, but the decision is entirely his. At the end of that, he indicated that he intended to testify. His attorneys put on a witness, one of Paul's friends, and then after that they wanted a chance to discuss with Murdaugh whether he would testify, but the microphone caught him clearly telling them that he didn't need to talk to them about it, he wants to testify.

I can't say that I believe it hurt him to testify, I think it may have helped with some jurors according to people who were in the courtroom watching them. I'm not saying that it gave ME personally any doubts, but I totally believe the prosecutor did a bad enough job that any juror that was inclined to find doubt, will be able to do so. I don't agree with the guy that said the prosecution totally blew it, but I think the prosecution probably lost jurors and I say that because even I was screaming at the video feed for the prosecution to make his freaking points and sit the hell down.

The single thing the prosecutor really needed to do, which I believe he finally actually DID accomplish, was to show the jury that his bullshit story about why he lied was itself a lie. The prosecutor did that part pretty effectively. He spent what I thought was an appropriate amount of time forcing Murdaugh to marry and remarry himself to his bullshit that as time went on in his first interview with SLED that several things they asked him combined with advice he had gotten from others all caused him to lie about being at the kennels.

And then after making him say it over and over again, he played the video of the casual conversation Alex had with law enforcement way before any of that stuff or conversation or interview ever happened, and Alex told the lie during that casual question from law enforcement. And then right in front of the jury Alex denied that the prosecutor just proved that he lied about the lie. That was very powerful. But, I do believe at least some of the jury was probably lost by that point, so I have doubts that every juror really was listening enough to get how bad that was.

One of the jury watchers said that one juror took a Kleenex or napkin, tore two pieces off it and stuck it into her ears after she had apparently had enough of the prosecutor droning on and on about the financial stuff.

[pjhimself]

. because even I was screaming at the video feed for the prosecution to make his freaking points and sit the hell down.

Really ? (Just kidding……..)

I for one appreciate your contributions to this thread.

[sad-cafe]

watching low country now

that family is evil

Yes, a lot of dead people in their trail. Have you got to part two where they talk about the young man whose dead body shows up in the middle of the road and the local police treat it like a car accident? And the state trooper (who has the expertise in car accidents) says

Whether there's a Murdaugh connection, we don't really know

yes god they are horrid

[RVInit]

. because even I was screaming at the video feed for the prosecution to make his freaking points and sit the hell down.

Really ? (Just kidding……..)

I for one appreciate your contributions to this thread.

Thanks. And I appreciate yours as well. Not sure how much I will be able to do next week, but we will see.

The past few days I am sick and staying in bed most days, so I've been able to watch as it's happening. Usually I have to watch at night.

[humblescribe]

I agree that the prosecutor did a so-so job. (I did not watch nearly as much as RV).

I wonder if the prosecutor was caught unprepared when Alex decided to testify. The prosecutor's approach seemed scattered and not organized. In a case like this, he should have directed one of his lieutenants to comb through the previous testimony and have organized and sequenced topics for cross.

Fifteen minutes or so on the financial crimes. Stop with trying to pin him down with this lie on that date to this person. A blanket statement like, "Would you agree, Mr. Murdaugh that there were at least five occasions when you sat down with your clients and told them lies about the settlements?" Get him to answer that simple question yes. Then move on.

Hammer home the timeline and compare it to his alibi and his lying to the police.

And as I stated before, I think he needed to inquire about his net worth exclusive of any separate property, and the net worth of Maggie. He may not know exact dollar amounts, but he would know what he owned, his partnership interest, and any liabilities that he had incurred, secured or not.

[bill_g]

Drilled through The Murdaugh Murders on Netflix last night. What a bunch of entitled assholes. In one respect I regret participating in the Court of Public Opinion that is occurring as Alex's trial proceeds. However, I doubt anything on Netflix is going to effect the outcome of any of the numerous prosecutions that are going to happen.

[RVInit]

I've listened to the direct exam of the first witness. He's a forensic pathologist. He was given limited information and basically photos.

So far he's been used for a limited purpose of opining that he agrees with "most" of the pathologist opinion of the gunshots wounds and what they show. He disagrees with some slight aspect of Maggie's wounds, but making a seriously different opinion about the gunshot that ended Paul's life.

He's saying the gunshot that entered Paul's head was made from above and his head was struck first and the shot when through his jaw and then into his shoulder.

The prosecution pathologist and prosecution forensic expert both agreed the shot that ended his life grazed his shoulder as he was slightly slumped, went into his jaw area and out the top right side of his head.

WARNING, don't read the following if you don't want to read grisly description. I will try to make as un-grisly as possible:

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I have a hard time believing that could happen if the direction of the shot was from his head down through his jaw and grazing his shoulder area.

He's talking about some of the pellets that are left in his shoulder area, but I believe those pellets were from the first shot, as explained by the prosecution pathologist. He was shot with birdshot and then buckshot.

I have a feeling this witness may be dispatched easily in cross exam. Not even sure it will be necessary to bring the prosecution's forensics expert back, but maybe they will.

[RVInit]

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Thanks, RV!!!!!

[RVInit]

Thanks, RV!!!!!

[pjhimself]

A recap from today:

[RVInit]

This is interesting. An opioid addict gives his take on Alex Murdaugh's story that opioid addiction is the cause of all his money problems.

[RVInit]

In case anyone is interested, the Behavior Panel is going to evaluate Alex Murdaugh on the witness stand. They have set up the YouTube live feed link, but it doesn't start until 12:30 EST tomorrow. He has some serious mouth and tongue issues going on during much of his testimony, particularly when asked questions surround June 7th, the day of the murders. Weird mouth and tongue gestures. I already know all four of the guys are convinced he is guilty based on watching his police interviews.

His first day on the stand I had the feed up on my laptop, but I wasn't watching it, I was just listening to it. Then, later I actually watched a little bit of it. I almost fell over when I saw all that weird mouth and tongue rolling. I have no idea how a jury could see that behavior and think this man did not commit those murders. But you just don't know with jurors.

Today his brother was smiling with members of the jury in between questioning by the prosecutor, so I think Alex may very well have at least some of the jurors in his camp.

[sugar magnolia]

I almost fell over when I saw all that weird mouth and tongue rolling. I have no idea how a jury could see that behavior and think this man did not commit those murders. But you just don't know with jurors.

What is the connection between his mouth movements and his possible guilt? I would think it was more a side effect of his opioid use.

[pjhimself]

[pjhimself]

[pjhimself]

Closing arguments happening.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[Kendra]

CNN is doing an hour long dive into latest events tonight. If I followed correctly, it's 6PM Pacific time, 9PM eastern. Could be wrong because

[Patagoniagirl]

From My remote position, while I hate to say, I think this case will be either a not guilty or hung jury. I think the prosecutor was awful. Awful. I think the defendant fucker is guilty and a sleaze.

Where are the guns used in this double murder,? Was someone else involved? Was there gunshot residue on Daddy Murdaugh? Where are his clothes? Was someone else involved? Oh, I think so. A crazy drug addict would not be able to accomplish this alone.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

I am wishing for guilty. Murdaugh is so cunning I think the jury will see through his admission of lying about everything but especially about being at the kennels. Also, too, anyone in this day and age who turns his phone off during criminal events is more than suspicious. Two guns from the Mudaugh's gun room were used which is yet another devious way to confuse the investigation. He changed clothes afterwards. The change evidenced by another video on Paul's phone. Those clothes were never found.

The jury has more than enough to convict.

[RVInit]

I almost fell over when I saw all that weird mouth and tongue rolling. I have no idea how a jury could see that behavior and think this man did not commit those murders. But you just don't know with jurors.

What is the connection between his mouth movements and his possible guilt? I would think it was more a side effect of his opioid use.

He's been in jail for over a year, I don't think he's getting opioids.

[RVInit]

I agree with TRL. The jury does have more than enough to convict. The prosecutor had at least one day where he was not very good. I don't think he was totally bad on that day, but much of the cross exam with Alex could have been shortened, especially when it became very clear that he was not going to answer the question being asked.

But, allowing him to talk, did end up giving the prosecution some things to point out to the jury about him lying even to them. Beyond the lie about being at the kennel he told the jury OTHER lies. Also, he told them complete lies about the lie about not being at the kennel, and at one point during cross exam the prosecution showed it. And what did Alex do - he showed how cunningly he can continue to lie, and how even when the entire courtroom saw him get caught in a lie, he could sit there and deny that he lied.

Does that mean he will be found not guilty? No. But I do think there is better than zero chance of that happening.

[RVInit]

I will come back and give me assessment of the closings, and my impressions, but for now, here is something juicy taht happened first thing in the morning.

So, yesterday afternoon the judge adjourned and mentioned that all attorneys would be going into chambers for a discussion. We found out why this morning. Apparently, one of the jurors talked about the case to at least one other person. The judge used the plural, as in persons, but did not say how many. He dismissed that juror this morning after all the attorneys and judge questioned all parties that were known to have been involved.

The juicy part? The juror talked about her opinion of the case. Both prosecution and defense know all the details about everything that juror discussed. And the defense tried to argue to keep that juror. So, it stands to reason that this was a juror that was buying the defense bullshit. She may have been the (or one of) juror that was smiling with Alex brother during a break. It's hard to describe, but both Alex and his brother positioned the chair so they could directly face the jury when they testified. Alex' brother, during a break, was clearly looking straight at jurors and trying to make eye contact and then he smiled in response to something one or another juror did. There was also a juror that took a box of Kleenex and pushed it towards Alex when he was doing his fake crying on the witness stand.

When jurors are not inclined to agree with one side or the other, they tend to avoid eye contact and any kind of non-verbal interaction.

An example is in the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial. I watched that trial but didn't start a thread or comment on it here. It was an interesting look into a bad relationship. Johnny Depp was actually the victim of Amber Heard. And the jury clearly got that one. Heard did the same thing Alex and his brother did during testimony- she looked at the jury the entire time she was on the stand. Several jurors talked about it afterward and said it made them very uncomfortable and that they would look away as she was searching the jury to find a juror that she might connect with. They said each time her eyes landed on them, they would look away. And it was because they simply didn't buy her bullshit story.

It doesn't appear that all jurors were looking away during John Marvin (Alex brother) testimony, as it was pretty clear that one of them smiled at him and he returned that smile and then looked down, seemed to be very pleased with it all. I hope it was just that juror that was dismissed and not others that are charmed by the lying liars that lie.